Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

what does make it work


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> what does make it work Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
what does make it work - 5/19/2005 4:56:12 PM   
match2u


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline



hug to all,

i would like to get something out of my chest.

there are such a lot of information in the lifestyle, internet etc. to find about abuse
- signs of
- what to do when happen
- trying to avoid....

althuogh - it does exist and i know that very well

the question i am often asking myself (and i still have no answer) is

what is it - making abuse work?

is it the trust, cause fallen in love, did i allow it (at least there are two..)

would abuse be not possible if trust, love, devotion wouldnt be there?

thanks a lot for all Your answers!

petra



< Message edited by match2u -- 5/20/2005 5:02:51 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: what does make it work - 5/19/2005 5:27:10 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		What makes abuse work is insecure people feeding off of other insecure people by having a slightly more aggressive approach.

People can love eachother and be insecure.

(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: what does make it work - 5/19/2005 6:09:59 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: match2u



what is it - making abuse work?

is it the trust, cause fallen in love, did i allow it (at least there are two..)

would abuse be not possible if trust, love, devotion wouldnt be there?

thanks a lot for all Your answers!

petra




i dunno what other ppl said. But i know from my own experience. i know why that little girl growing up who used to say "If anyone ever laid a hand on me, if i couldnt beat them up then i'd get my dad and 4 brothers to do so" And i said that when ever "abuse" came up.

MOST people never understand how it happens, as i never understood. HOW can those ladies stay with a perosn like that? Why cant they just walk out, they've two legs right?

People tend to just look at the marks on the body. What people can not see is what is going on mentally. For me it was one trust. Two, the guy was 15 years older then me and i considered him wiser and more knowledgable then me. Trust. Abusers whether you can see it or not find a way to delve inside their victem's heads. Its about the Abuser knowing you, learning you, finding out what makes you tick. And then using that to their advantage.

Manipulation, head games. Taking words and them twisting them around. Allowing others to only see half the story. (The part the want to be seen). With my abuser it was about showing the world what a cool, considerate, thoughful, kind hearted, good spirit, intelligent person he was. It can confuse you. Because if you know some one as such for along time and you learn to trust them, you dont see them getting in your head. Twisting and turning. And by the time the hitting starts.. its about too late. Because you're thinking is ALRREADY SCREWED. Forgiveness? For about 5 years after i broke free my abuser still told me "he had changed" Its about becoming some ones best friend. Its about always seeing the best.

ITS about the head games. Its a process really. A slow process that if you're not on you're tippy toes you dont catch. And WHO in the world is on their tippy toes with a best friend they trust? Aye, and its about allowing it. i allowed it out of forgiveness and confusion (as to what was REALLY going on) i allowed it out of seeing the best in him.

What makes it work as my final answer is the head games, the word manipulation. The power of Words and the Power of Knowledge. Them knowing you enough to play games and twist the words.

(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: what does make it work - 5/19/2005 7:04:35 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		I don't have a theraputic background, so I don't speak as a professional. I was a foster and adoptive parent - 35 foster children over 10 years and 3 public adoptions - and I ended up being a pretty educated lay person.

I think best answer is "maladaptive responses." Human beings are adaptive creatures, and when we are in dangerous situations, or even just painful ones, we learn adaptive behaviour, coping mechanisms, to make the situation more tolerable. We may end up with skewed, unhealthy ideas about self, others, and realtionships.

Until those models, those unhealthy models are discarded, until we adjust ur model and see self, others, and relationships clearly and truthfully, we can't shake these maladaptive behaviours, and many of those maladaptive behaviours are either abusive, or accepting of abuse.

If you think you are unlovable (a false, unhealthy model of self) you may engage in maladaptive bahaviour that enables abuse. If you think others cannot meet your needs - if you have say RAD as a life framework, you may engage in abusive, maladaptive behaviour.

The genesis of all this is the human capacity to adapt in dangeous situation, but the difficulty in releasing those (mal)adaptive responses.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 6:47:14 AM   
Stoneygirl76


Posts: 30
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline 		Honestly, I think what makes 'it' work is that in this context, in these relationships, it's not so much abuse, as an activity.

I mean...the first to definitions of abuse are:

To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.

I just don't see a healthy bdsm relationship as one which involves abuse. I see the activities as positive things, and the word abuse, to me, implies something negative.

Maybe I am just caught up in semantics, but I think how you view what you and your partner do has a lot to do with it, and therefore if you view it as 'abuse' you'll have a harder time making it work, because (deep down) you're seeing it as something negative.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 8:47:30 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I concur with Riot and Faramir.

My cousin can tell you horrendous stories from her childhood. My aunt used to have them clean the house spotless. When they left a crumb on a dish she would take them by their pony tails and swing them up and down the hall hitting their heads on both sides.
Blood splattering everywhere. When she got to the end she would say...now clean up your blood. Then get to your room.

This same cousin has two children of her own. She struggles on a daily basis to control her temper. First reaction is to hit the kids. She has to stop and remind herself daily, no that is wrong. Talk it out with them instead of hitting.
Amazing feat if one can manage to do it.

Learned behavior is very common in abuse. You grow up that way and unless you are enlightened enough you remain that way.

Yet, self esteem plays an integral part in abuse as well. If you think low of yourself...then you find a partner who wants you. Starts slowly asking you to make changes of yourself.
The cycle has started. Eventually you will be nothing but a shell of what you once were. Always trying to please another. Never quite happy except for brief periods of time when you have pleased them.
Before you know it they are in your head..mentally abusing you. Which is far worse than any physical abuse. They could very well physically abuse you on top of the mental.

You will be so broken down by that point in time it will not matter to you anymore. Just the people who love you and can see what is going on. Would you listen to them?
Chances are probably not.

I think abuse is possible in every scenerio. The difference is sometimes we don't stand for it and fight back. Where other's we sit and allow ourselves to sink deeper.

(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 10:44:22 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		petra,
Intersting post, I find it very thought provoking. I often ask myself what makes someone an abuser, what makes someone stay, and can things change.

My entire live I have asked these questions. Growing up I lived in the mist of disfunction. Did that mean as a mother I would become abusive or that my family would be disfunction? Would I seek out a man like my father. My parents taught me tons of lessons, for along time Ihated who I was when I looked in the mirror. It took alot of owning up to my own emotions and why they were there. To this day, my parents will not admit to the abuse that went on in our house hold. I came to the conclusion though, they dont have to admit for me to move on and heal but I did.

I watched my aunt end up with broken arms and boot prints in the face my entire life. I aksed her once why she stayed. Her answer was well I have put up with it for 30 years why change it now? Her answer turned my stomach. However, I relized something months later. My aunt was from a differnt time a differnt age when marriage was a commitement for better or worse. Is it right? No. Is it healthy? Hell no. But she is / was an adult and she chooses to stay there. She chooses to deal because its how its always been .

Because of my family history, my childhood I am very cautious about my relationships with men, with my children , but the harderst part is with myself. AT times I am my worst enemy. Our minds are amazing when it come to dealing with abuse of any kind. An example growing up my dads pet name for me was whore , so now when someone calls me a whore it takes me someplace in my mind. A safe haven, so as a collared girl I had to tell my Master hey look I have this issue but to do that I have admit why I react to that word. That is the painful part. To stop the cycle of abuse it must first be admit, we first must admit our emotions and why they are there so we can heal.

As far as abusive in the lifetyle. Predators are a reality in our society. In every culture and subculture. So as tops and bottoms we have to be safe we have to be smart. A wodnerful man once told me " an owners first duty is to protect the property". That doesnt mean to coddle or pamper but it means to make sure their are able to thrive and grow. Sometimes protecting the property means protecting them from themselves from their demons. Play does not mean abusive. Punishement does not mean abuse. Love does not mean you tear someoen down so far to rebuild them. I would urge everyone in the lifestyle to be safe, to be sain, and to be honest with those in your lives and more importantly yourself.


Just the ramblings of one woman.

Nika, Phoenix's deviant


_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."



(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 11:52:57 AM   
match2u


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline



thanks to all so far for the answers

and yes - Phoenixandnika - may a thuoght provoking

the background why i am asking for is

i did had a relation for nearly three years - an abusive one - mental, physical, sexual... covered by this guy of the BDSM lifestyle - so SSC wasnt there..
in the meantime i have put charge on him...( not an easy decision by the way)
and yes i do consider myself as a strong person....

by this time now - dealing with all that and the selfreflection i am often asking myself the question i put here on post.....

for me it was trust in the beginning... and with every step of trust i had, to open up it was used

to manipulate - to force - to abuse

right now i am asking myself why did i bear so long?
i am an adult, like Riotgirl says: i have two legs - to move out

it has take me a long time to do so.....

so i am asking myself.......

petra


(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 12:25:09 PM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		petra,
One of the hardest things for me was to stop blaming myself. Yes, I blamed myself. Well if I had done this or not done that. But the reality is we can not control someone elses actions, we can only control our own. Not every man is an abuser, not every man will feed on our weaknesses. Some men, women will try and build up those weaknesses within ourselves. I know its hard to trust again, but take your time and learn to trust yourself then you will learn to trust others. But remember not to trust blindly, always remember SSC.

As far as why you stayed so long, well women stay in abusive relationship for alot of reasons. Sometimes we think they willchange, or that we deservedit, or maybe we are simply over reacting or simple fear. It takes alot to walk way from any long term relationship and more so when your insecure and vulnerable and an abuse victim. But the point is you did leave, and now its time to start healing.

I wish you the best petra

Nika , Phoenix deviant

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."



(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: what does make it work - 5/20/2005 12:30:44 PM   
match2u


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline


thank You

coming deep from my heart


petra



< Message edited by match2u -- 5/20/2005 12:31:55 PM >

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: what does make it work - 5/25/2005 6:49:24 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Before you know it they are in your head..mentally abusing you. Which is far worse than any physical abuse. They could very well physically abuse you on top of the mental.

You will be so broken down by that point in time it will not matter to you anymore. Just the people who love you and can see what is going on. Would you listen to them?
Chances are probably not.

I think abuse is possible in every scenerio. The difference is sometimes we don't stand for it and fight back. Where other's we sit and allow ourselves to sink deeper.


I have one addition to make to that sub4hire....sometimes we stay longer then we should out of fear. That could be fear of trying to support the children after we leave. That could also be fear of what the abuser will do when we leave. Abusers are prone to telling us that they will either kill themselves if we leave or that they will kill us.

It takes a long time and a lot of hard work to recover your self-esteem after abuse. When the abuse occurs during your formative years it can be extremely dfficult to unlearn the behaviour patterns you have been taught as well as the beliefs about your self-worth.

Gentle Lady


_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: what does make it work - 5/25/2005 7:12:49 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
petra

Abusers are good at what they do or there would not be so many of them. They start with small things in a relationship and build slowly. Often when they start it will be over a minor issue and you think to yourself.....this is not really worth an argument over so I will let it pass. Over time the issues get bigger and more inclusive until one day you realize....hey !!...this is wrong. By that time most abusees are in so deep that they feel totally trapped by the situation. Abusers can be very good at keeping the person off balance enough that they never question individual issues.

The question is not really why did I stay so long. That is asking from hindsight and hindsight identifies the relationship as being abusive right from the start. While we were IN the relationship at the start we did not think it was abusive. The real question should be: How long did it take you to do something about it after you realized it was abusive and why did it take so long.

When the abuse is bad and covers both sexual, emotional, and physical levels, the human mind shuts down. It will not admit to itself that the situation is that bad because...if it did....it would go insane. Only after the person has successfully left the abusive relationship and had time to recover can the mind start acknowledging just how bad and invasive the abuse was. This is a symptom of PTSD.

I trusted my abusive husband at the start and believed what he was saying. It was a good two years after I left before I suddenly clued in on the fact that ALL my information about mutual friends had come from his lips and were lies. When you love someone you tend to trust them and believe what they say. You do not expect them to behave in a way that will hurt you so it is hard to see the manipulation starting. You rationalize....this person loves me so they could not possible have meant what they said so they must be angry at something else and just taking it out on me....it is unlikely to happen again.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to match2u)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: what does make it work - 6/1/2005 6:37:45 AM   
match2u


Posts: 131
Joined: 11/15/2004
Status: offline


i do agree with Your words very well GentleLady

thank You


petra


(in reply to GentleLady)
Profile   Post #: 13
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> what does make it work Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.078