False sense of security? (Full Version)

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subversiveone -> False sense of security? (5/20/2005 10:54:04 AM)

because of my insecurities and lack of attention the past few years, i have become quite the 'needy' sub and control freak.
my new partner is struggling with this...
when we see each other it is for periods of 12 hrs or so at a time, so we cram a LOT in and then don't see each other for maybe four or five days... during that time we have no contact at all
i get 'high' off the intensity during our visits and then bottom out about 30 hrs later.
i read, i chat with others, i twitch, i masturbate, i talk to myself, and try to get my mind off of it in sometimes.
when we are together, all is right in the world so to speak, for both of us, and we are superglued to each other like lust starved teens petting and fondling, kissing and holding hands.
the subject came up the last 'date' about how affectionate we are at this stage and He said that someday that would all change... from the pit of my stomach came this old groan of 'oh no not again'... He said that as a part of my training He'd probably take away my ability to offer my affections freely to a point of His choosing. He indicated that was the only way He would know that i honestly felt affectionate towards Him.
now, i know that this is pretty common for a Dom to use denial of sex, affection, even contact.
and i know how (pardon please) shitty that makes me feel...
i can't hardline it out, that's not an option between us. He's not unreasonable, He's not going to use this tool until He thinks im ready but some small part of me begs the question, why do it at all?
i see it as a trust building exercise, an opportunity to be objectified and feel love through other avenues... i also see it as pretty 'hardcore' for anyone that has abandonment issues like me. and i equate it to being caged, which i can't handle.
as we work through these fears and insecurities, could you suggest exercises that will help me specifically?

this is a very humbling subject for me, please please understand my desire to overcome this
xoxo



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 11:26:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subversiveone
He said that as a part of my training He'd probably take away my ability to offer my affections freely to a point of His choosing. He indicated that was the only way He would know that i honestly felt affectionate towards Him.

His actions and desires are fine- if you accept them and are fulfilled by them.

His reasoning behind them is utter bullshit.

quote:


as we work through these fears and insecurities, could you suggest exercises that will help me specifically?

Why do you have NO contact in between times together? How will that change? Where are you seeing this relationship in 2 years? 5? Where does HE see it?

The best exercise right now would be to have a long talk about his bullshit reasonings. "Because I want to" is a far better answer than the crap he's trying to feed you there (oh which also conveniently places responsibility on YOU for proving how YOU feel).



subversiveone -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:05:19 PM)

our jobs take us away for days on end and neither of us have invested in cellphones yet (we're both churchmice right now)
in 2 years, i see a very committed pre-collar training phase
in 5? i would hope post collar
He tends to agree with this.
this is a brand new conversation line with Him... He's been Gor for many years... ive never got past the positions and horrible chat rooms, lol
the only 'answer' ive gotten so far is something to the effect 'it's too early to fully discuss/determine but all my slaves go through denial periods of one sort or another'...
shrugs
ive been very clear that i believe in freely giving freely taking, D/s can be about love, it is for me, it is not a game, it is not just a mind fuck and that if i don't feel my needs are being met as well as His im going to take an active role in communicating that to find the answers
i could never tell another human being to withold affection unless they were smothering me, and since He's as 'touchy feely' as i am i assumed this was to be the standard...
there has been mention too of 'just getting used to each other' dating by vanilla standards, using the touch as a bonding tool, lots of indicators that the darker side is being supressed (dont freak out, hear me) and that the S/m side is just barely showing its ugly head for now...
im like- either He's being really brutally honest or He's luring me in... i know what it's like to go slow w/a sub and suppress the deviance but i also know what it's like to get swept off your knees and put into 'place' from day one....who's to say what's right or appropriate there???
so now the 'nicer' He is to me, the more i want to know how far down the rabbithole this is going to go
and He's looking to me for those answers too
big heavy sigh
it's so complicated
will write more in a bit



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:13:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subversiveone
the only 'answer' ive gotten so far is something to the effect 'it's too early to fully discuss/determine but all my slaves go through denial periods of one sort or another'...
shrugs

So much for all that nice talk about being open and honest and fully communicative...
quote:

if i don't feel my needs are being met as well as His im going to take an active role in communicating that to find the answers

No time like the present.

quote:

but i also know what it's like to get swept off your knees and put into 'place' from day one....who's to say what's right or appropriate there???

Here's my arrogance showing- I am.

Being vague, giving bullshit answers about "it's the only way to prove yourself" and "too early to talk about (these very valid issues you have)" is pretty damn inappropriate at ANY stage of a relationship.

quote:


it's so complicated
will write more in a bit

Why bother? It's complicated because he's MAKING IT COMPLICATED because he's FEEDING YOU CRAP and you WANT to make it ok.



subversiveone -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:20:10 PM)

have You ever had an arguement and walked away from it for a few days?
we did and we are
and it 'frightened' me as to his motivations
im not looking to make it ok, im looking at it from the perspective that if other subs go through this denial period i should seek to understand 'it' and then be better prepped to understand 'His' before i say doormattishly "yes Master whatever You want"
love and light



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:23:33 PM)

Yeah I figured that would be your response, it's why I rarely ever give such a blunt response to subs looking for advice, the effect is usually the sub becoming defensive over the situation she's insecure about.

I hope you can look at this reasonably, and see that his reasonings here are absolutely crap, that he's feeding you crap, that you need to talk about this like real adults looking for a real long term situation, without holes and without vague ideas and without the crap- oh and without him putting a guilt trip on you for not trusting him and his motivations.



subversiveone -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:29:04 PM)

i agree Emerald!!! if He's feeding me crap when we come back to this discussion in a few days im outta here
i just don't equate brief responses to crap
so, let's assume He has more to say and it's hopefully in line with Your thinking and mine...
how do You feel about denial in general? detrimental? opportunity?



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:33:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subversiveone

how do You feel about denial in general? detrimental? opportunity?

As I said in my first response- the actions are fine if it fulfills everyone.

Denial can be a powerful tool, in every way. Religious practices often include denial, look at Lent.

But you have to understand why the denial is in place, what its purpose for, whether it will work for that purpose, and what the consequences will be.

Some slaves find utter satisfaction in not being allowed to orgasm for days or weeks. I would find it miserable and not really gain anything out of it. Sure I'd know I was obeying and being true to myself, but it would still suck.



subversiveone -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:42:54 PM)

nods i agree
if i had to guess (which is all i can do today) id say that He is trying to slowly strip me down to a place of nothingness, so He can build me back up again... which sounds totally abhorrent if you look at it from a psychological aspect... im not of the mindset that just because im a sub i need to be fixed or broken for that matter... im whole and capable of fulfilling myself in many ways... it's just a choice, a preference... when i get to feeling really needy like today i have to say that a couple of times ;)



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 12:47:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subversiveone

nods i agree
if i had to guess (which is all i can do today) id say that He is trying to slowly strip me down to a place of nothingness, so He can build me back up again... which sounds totally abhorrent if you look at it from a psychological aspect

The problems here:

You shouldn't have to be "guessing."

He's clearly given answers which make no sense and have nothing to do with your guess.

And you can't do that to a person unless you have very strong, very regular personal contact with them, otherwise it falls apart.



subversiveone -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 1:20:13 PM)

His only answers at the time and our conversational course leading up to this due to a time constraint, led me to believe that
a) we are in 'negotiations' and He's foreshadowing His desire to 'train' me into the submissive i want to be
b)He doesn't fully understand my issues yet and i need to do a better job in being clear on them
c)His intentions, though muddled as they may be, are SEEMINGLY to deprogram the negativity associated with denial through training
d)He may be under the delusion that women in general fake affection to get what they want and/or display it out of habit rather than true desire

On point a. He doesn't know me so im not accepting any 'conclusions' yet.
On point b. It's my responsibility to outline my feelings on this, including this down time we're in right now, until I can gain more info/insight
On point c. The road to hell...need i say more?
On point d. Proof is in the pudding. All he knows right now is the brand-Jello, the flavor-possibly chicken. I'm not going to nail myself to a cross to prove im the genuine article.

I plan on insisting very sweetly that our lines of communication dramatically shift if this is going to stay the course, because we're running into some sticky subjects. If He's serious, He'll buy a cellular. I have more access to phones than He does in His truck.
As far as affection goes, right now-need it. Period. Future? would rather have all the Dr. Feelgood i can get ;)



FelinePersuasion -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 1:40:11 PM)

I'm very lovey dovey huggy random kisses love you type. I would feel stiffled if I could only say I love you or touch him on his terms when he thinks it should be.


I am a spontanious person, to have to ask may I kiss you or can I hug you would kill any affection I had to show.


That thinking that if I say when you're affectionate or not and you do it only then and then you're truely affectionate is crap. How can someone belive that by limiting the availibility of affectionate time to when he deems is affection time, means that someone is turely affectionate



fourpeas -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 2:18:55 PM)

if you're truly affectionate and that is a big part of who you are, your Dom should want to take those parts of you, make them better, WHILE at the same time training you in other ways...

Limiting your strengths doesn't help him in any way. If he wants the most from you he should be helping you to be at your absolute best and that doesn't sound like what he's about! You need a better reason from him and you also deserve to be with someone who can train you and collar you and make you feel loved AND -- respect your past fears and your past hurts.



harmony3709 -> RE: False sense of security? (5/20/2005 3:44:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subversiveone
nods i agree
if i had to guess (which is all i can do today) id say that He is trying to slowly strip me down to a place of nothingness, so He can build me back up again... which sounds totally abhorrent if you look at it from a psychological aspect... im not of the mindset that just because im a sub i need to be fixed or broken for that matter... im whole and capable of fulfilling myself in many ways... it's just a choice, a preference... when i get to feeling really needy like today i have to say that a couple of times ;)


I agree with you completely on your instincts here and think you are dead on about not needing to be "fixed". I have serious misgivings regarding the whole concept about breaking a submissive and building her back up and wish I hadn't seen so many threads where this comes up. Breaking a bad habit is one thing, and focused on a specific behavior or issue. But for the most part, I think improving a submissive's weaknesses and building on her strengths are positive influences.

I won't get into the whole submissive/slaves rights issues here, but if you look at it from the flip side, a Dom who doesn't fulfill his submissive's needs is going to have a very unhappy and unfulfilled submissive and one he likely won't have for very long. And from my own personal experience, I know that my service is very much affected when that happens. So both parties are affected in the end.

quote:

the only 'answer' ive gotten so far is something to the effect 'it's too early to fully discuss/determine but all my slaves go through denial periods of one sort or another'...


If you feel you are not getting an answer to your questions and you aren't sure about something........then you should ask again. I have always been concerned about anyone who gives me vague answers to clear questions. And answers such as "it's too early to fully discuss" would be a concern to me.

I am required to discuss my concerns with my Dom. I am not allowed to hold back concerns and if I had the kind of concerns you are expressing here and did not discuss them with him, I would be breaking a rule that has been made crystal clear to me. This may not work well in your relationship, but for me, it was very important and we discussed this at length. I don't want to have to sit and try and figure out why he is doing something or feel confused or concerned.

I will also add that I have been known to have been hit by sudden fears and will find myself going through all the "what-ifs" and "maybe he meant this" or "maybe he is trying to do that" and so on. I know that sometimes I am reacting from my anxiety over the relationship moving into areas that are scary to me and having to give more of myself that I am not used to doing, as well as becoming more vulnerable and exposed.

I don't want to be completely negative to a situation that we only know the bit of information that has been provided in a post, so I certainly would add that if you feel the rest of the relationship is working but have had this one issue come up, I would think it would be worth discussing and trying to work it out and giving him the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, if he is unwilling to do that, then that may be the bigger concern.

My only experience with denial was done without any knowledge on my part at all. In a past relationship, the Dom I was involved with just suddenly and without warning removed himself from me and basically kept it up until I cracked. (Going from multiple daily contact to suddenly being ignored for about ten days with no reason given at all.) Then the fact that I did finally snap was thrown in my face as a failure, even though I had repeatedly asked to discuss the issue before I snapped. So my experience with it is obviously one I would not want to be repeated. However, in your case you were told about it ahead of time and I think that is at least a sign of the desire to communicate on his part.

Keep listening to your instincts and keep the lines of communication open.

Be well,
harmony




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