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"U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/28/2007 8:25:05 PM   
Vendaval


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"U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze"
 
By STEVEN R. HURST and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writers
17 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - The United States and Iran broke a 27-year diplomatic freeze Monday with a four-hour meeting about Iraqi security. The American envoy said there was broad policy agreement, but that Iran must stop arming and financing militants who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi forces.

Iranian Ambassador Hassan Kazemi Qomi told The Associated Press that the two sides would meet again in less than a month. U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker said Washington would decide only after the Iraqi government issued an invitation.

"We don't have a formal invitation to respond to just yet, so it doesn't make sense to respond to what we don't have," Crocker told reporters after the meeting.

The talks in the Green Zone offices of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki were the first formal and scheduled meeting between Iranian and American government officials since the United States broke diplomatic relations with Tehran after the 1979 Islamic Revolution and the seizure of the U.S. Embassy.

An AP reporter who witnessed the opening of the session said Crocker and Kazemi shook hands.

The American envoy called the meeting "businesslike" and said at "the level of policy and principle, the Iranian position as articulated by the Iranian ambassador was very close to our own."

However, he said: "What we would obviously like to see, and the Iraqis would clearly like to see, is an action by Iran on the ground to bring what it's actually doing in line with its stated policy."

Speaking later at a news conference in the Iranian Embassy, Kazemi said: "We don't take the American accusations seriously."

Crocker declined to detail what Kazemi had said in the session, but the Iranian diplomat — formerly a top official in the elite Revolutionary Guards Quds Force — said he had offered to train and equip the Iraqi army and police to create "a new military and security structure" for Iraq.

Kazemi said U.S. efforts to rebuild those forces were inadequate to handle the chaos in Iraq, for which he said Washington bore sole responsibility. He said he also offered to provide what assistance Iran could in rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure, which he said had been "demolished by the American invaders."

The icebreaking session, according to both sides, did not veer into other difficult issues that encumber the U.S.-Iranian relationship — primarily Iran's nuclear program and the more than a quarter-century history of diplomatic estrangement.

For its part, Iran's Shiite theocracy fears the Bush administration harbors plans for regime change in Tehran and could act on those desires as it did against Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Washington and its Sunni Arab allies are deeply unnerved by growing Iranian influence in the Middle East and the spread of increasingly radical Islam.

Compounding all that is Iran's open hostility to Israel.

But the issues at hand in these first formal contacts portend a bruising set of talks — all other issues aside — should the two sides have follow-up meetings.

The Americans insist that Iran, specifically its Quds force, has been bankrolling, arming and training Iraqi militants, particularly the Mahdi Army militia of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Those men, who are deeply embedded in the Iraqi armed forces and police, are believed to make up the Shiite death squads that have pushed Baghdad into the violence and chaos that prompted the U.S.-Iraqi security crackdown, now in its fourth month.

Beyond that, Iran is charged with sending into Iraq the deadly explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, the armor piercing roadside bombs that have killed hundreds of U.S. soldiers. Mahdi Army commanders have told AP that they receive those weapons from the Revolutionary Guards and that many of the militia's foot soldiers have gone to Iran for training with the elite military force.

Kazemi and Crocker said the Iranians did not raise the subject of seven Iranians that were captured by the United States in Iraq. Five are still in U.S. custody.

"The focus of our discussions were Iraq and Iraq only," Crocker said.

Just before 10:30 a.m., al-Maliki greeted the two ambassadors and led them into a conference room, where they sat across a long, glistening wood table from each other. Al-Maliki then made a brief statement before leaving.

He told both sides that Iraqis wanted a stable country free of foreign forces and regional interference. Iraq should not be turned into a base for terrorist groups, he said, adding that the U.S.-led forces in Iraq were only here to help rebuild the army, police and infrastructure.

The United States had no plans to launch a strike against Iran from Iraq, he said.
"We are sure that securing progress in this meeting would, without doubt, enhance the bridges of trust between the two countries and create a positive atmosphere" that would help them deal with other issues, he said.

After he left, the meeting moved to a second room where the delegations sat at three long tables draped in white cloth and put together in a triangular formation.

National Security Adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie took charge of the Iraqi delegation.
In Tehran, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the talks could lead to future meetings, but only if Washington admitted that its Middle East policy had failed.

"We are hopeful that Washington's realistic approach to the current issues of Iraq — by confessing its failed policy in Iraq and the region and by showing a determination to changing the policy — guarantees success of the talks and possible further talks," Mottaki said. "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_iran_talks

_____________________________

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 8:39:24 AM   
philosophy


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jaw jaw is better than war war.........

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 10:19:05 AM   
cyberdude611


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And I assure you this will go absolutely nowhere.

You can't negotiate with Islamic fundamentalists. There is no reason or compromise with those people.

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 10:22:19 AM   
philosophy


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You can't negotiate with fundamentalists? In virtually every case it is only negotiation that stops them. Northern Ireland is a good example.
In response to your use of the word 'Islamic', i can only reply that it is equally as impossible to negotiate with fundamentalist from any and all religions, thus making your characterisation 'islamic' redundant.

<edited to correct my poor reading of the post i was replying to>

< Message edited by philosophy -- 5/29/2007 10:24:46 AM >

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 10:39:19 AM   
SimplyMichael


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I love people who issue blanket statements about others being "unable" to be reasonable.

How many US governments has Iran overthrown?  How many US citizens have been tortured by US/Israeli trained Iranian interogators?  How much US money has Iran seized?

This may have been the one intelligent move in what six years by this whitehouse?

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 4:38:21 PM   
Vendaval


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The beginning of a diplomatic dialogue is much better than the launching of missles.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 5:00:45 PM   
popeye1250


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Fine, as long as it doesn't involve foreign aid.

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 5:14:30 PM   
Vendaval


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Iran is offering to help re-build Iraq's infrastructure.  Of course the myriad of various Shia and Sunni
sects may or may not have a problem with that scenario, I am not an expert on these matters. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 5:22:18 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The beginning of a diplomatic dialogue is much better than the launching of missles.


But in the end, they both lead to the same conclusion, war...

Iran has a very radical government that I dont believe can be trusted, nor do I believe they want peace. I think they are determined to have Israel destroyed and according to Iran's supreme leader, they are willing to destroy the entire mid-east in the process if they have to. For a nation developing nuclear weapons, that's extremely disturbing.

I mean the President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, is a Holocaust denier. He truely believes the Holocaust is propaganda spread by the jews. You think you can negotiate with someone like that? Someone who doesn't even aknowledge history? Good Luck!

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 5:26:03 PM   
Vendaval


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I will argue that beginning dialoge with a person such as the Iranian
President is in our best interest because it is -
 
"Wise to keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 5:31:26 PM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Iran is offering to help re-build Iraq's infrastructure.  Of course the myriad of various Shia and Sunni
sects may or may not have a problem with that scenario, I am not an expert on these matters. 


Two words come to mind with that offer... Trojan Horse.

Iran has nothing to gain with a peaceful and democratic Iraq. They have everything to gain if the current government collapses, the US leaves, and the Shia take control of the country. That right now is Iran's ultimate dream.

The Sunnis and Kurds in Iraq will have a very big problem with Iran in there doing anything. Iran supports the Shia sect. And the other 40% of Iraq is not going to trust the Shia or the Iranians.
Keep in mind the history here...It was the Sunnis (lead by Saddam Hussein) that started the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. And the Kurds don't trust the Sunis or the Iranians because they were gassed by both. So there is alot of bad blood in this region.

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 7:20:00 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

The beginning of a diplomatic dialogue is much better than the launching of missles.


But in the end, they both lead to the same conclusion, war...



........depends if negotiations are in good faith on both sides......funny how often the historical record shows how often extreme groups are only successfully opposed by integrating them into the mainstream.......

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RE: "U.S., Iran end 27-year diplomatic freeze" - 5/29/2007 7:46:51 PM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Iran is offering to help re-build Iraq's infrastructure.  Of course the myriad of various Shia and Sunni
sects may or may not have a problem with that scenario, I am not an expert on these matters. 


Two words come to mind with that offer... Trojan Horse.

Iran has nothing to gain with a peaceful and democratic Iraq. They have everything to gain if the current government collapses, the US leaves, and the Shia take control of the country. That right now is Iran's ultimate dream.

The Sunnis and Kurds in Iraq will have a very big problem with Iran in there doing anything. Iran supports the Shia sect. And the other 40% of Iraq is not going to trust the Shia or the Iranians.
Keep in mind the history here...It was the Sunnis (lead by Saddam Hussein) that started the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. And the Kurds don't trust the Sunis or the Iranians because they were gassed by both. So there is alot of bad blood in this region.


Iran wins no matter what happens, that is why Bush's daddy didn't overthrow Saddam and allowed Saddam to butcher the Shia after Bush's daddy asked for a revolution.  The Shia are a bigger majority than your 40% because the Kurds are concentrated in the North so in most regions the Shia are predominant.

This is why people like me have said since Bush started beating the war drum that invading Iraq was a very very stupid moronic idiotic fucking idea.  Iran wins no matter what.  Well okay, if you believe in faries and in a perfect world, a sliver of a path to a very secular western oriented government elected by the remnants of the middle class would have reduced the influence Iran might have.  However, that would have required competent leadership and effective planning, oh and they would have had to implement the traitorous ideas of the Democrats, like use enough troops, have a plan, bring in allies, talk to Iran, Syria, and the Saudies, admit to America it was going to cost our childrens futures to pull this off.

At this point, there isn't anything to save and considering how hard Bushco have worked to ensure the place is a fucking disaster, one really has to wonder if somehow that wasn't the plan all along.

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