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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 5:29:12 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi

So how does an aspiring master become one?


The Easy 2-Step Process!
1.  Define "master", as you wish it to be.


So Master can be or mean anything - it has whatever definition you want to ascribe to it - what if one wishes it to be idiot or abuser? 


Yes.  As romanticized as people tend to make these things, "Master" can mean just about anything to different people.  While I would argue that you should only use a word for a thing if it's something like the general definition (i.e., it'd be a bad idea for someone most would consider a "sub" to call himself "Master"), in essense, they can call it whatever they'd like.

One would hope they'd chose a suitable word for their dynamic.


quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
2.  Perform in such a manner.


Those two premises don't make sense to me.


I'm afraid you'd have to better explain your cofussion if I am to address it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Being a Master, if it's who you truly are, is as easy as breathing.  Just act as you want.  If it's not that easy, I'd question the wisdom in adopting such a stance.


You don't feel there is any learning process here to become a Master? No amount of exploration, research, observation required?
Just like there was in growing up.  I've escentially grown up controlling people- this stuff is natural to me.

I do question the wisdom of people adopting such a role later in life- not to say they're fake, shouldn't do it, etc.; just, I'm not exactly sure why one would do such a thing later in life.  Perhaps I'll come to empathize better once I've watched the sun go up and down a couple thousand more times.

Most of Masterhood is self-explanatory, at least, to me.  You do as you wish.  How can one find this difficult?  It is an easy role for one who desires it in full.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I note, often, that many seem to try to go into a role tha they think they'd like.  And try to act upon it.  This is especially apparent in "slave"s that find it hard to obey or "Master"s who still yield to their slaves, finding it hard to act on personal desires.

Act as you will.  Then figure out what title is most suiting to such action.


That would be like saying i want to be a model, so just act like one and then be one..... doubtful i would be successful on many levels as much as i might want it to happen, it is not going to.  i can say i want to be a chef - but i would have to learn certain cooking techniques to be a chef - i could act like one, even cook, but i doubt what i would produce would be edible by the standards of chef cooking.


You're comparing Masterhood to a job in those analogies.  If you approach it as one- if it's something you wish to become- then, yes, you must learn it.

But if you are one, and coming into the lifestyle helps you realize it?  Hey, it's who you were.  Nothing need be learned.

What I feel most people spend time doing is researching exactly what a Master is- how one acts.  They're trying to understand examples to emulte.  To play a role.

If you wear a leather suit and say to slaves, "Lick my boots, cunt!", because that's something you saw a Master you respected do- are you a Master, acting of his own will, or an actor, playing out a role he's studied and rehearsed?

I propose everyone act naturally.  If, naturally, they guide and such, and give some orders, congrats!, they're a Dom(me).  If they naturally demand another follow them, as to be their property, and take control and responsibility, woot!, you're a {Master/Mistress}!  If they.. (sub, slave, etc., etc.)

But, what if they act like a Dom, but want to be a Master?  Or vice versa?  Search me.  You can research it.  You can act the part.  But, in the end, aren't you just playing a game?  I really haven't thought it all the way through.  It's just, from my experience, people are often happy simply following their heart and acting without restraint- not to say one can't act, freely, to be in restraints. ;)

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 5:38:04 PM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnyxDelphi

So how does an aspiring master become one?


You know what?  I had my first sub when I was thirteen.   Slave when I was eighteen.  Not to brag, but, I'd ask you understand, my point of view is skew from the typical one.  This life is very normal- very natural- to me.  There's nothing kinky, nothing strange about it, nothing to be studied until refinements.

For one such as myself, I would recommend only better learning how a slave ticks to understand her.  To better one's self.  This lifestyle isn't work.  It's just having fun and doing as you want.

About a year ago, I started studying BDSM.  I've yet to adopt anything from it.  The basics seem, well, basic, and, past that, it's the individual dynamic.  As mine is quite well-developed, I see little to gain outside of refining perceptions and details.  This place is a neat place as many are still learning here.

This said, my answer may not be the best for you.  I have no experience with a Master coming to be a Master from something else.  It strikes me as strange- could you explain why you would want to, if you weren't one before?

In the beginning, I had simply said, "act as you will", because I thought you were like me- acting a Master, but not claiming the BDSM title of "Master".  I was simply saying that there's no test to get it- you can just claim it, if that's what you are.

In short, to better answer your post, I must first ask:  what are you, now?
And, to satisfy my curiousity: why become a Master?

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 7:30:13 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		my personal view is that just cause you think you are something, or you call yourself something - doesnt make you that something.  i think the term Master requires some work to be earned and i also think it's a responsibility not to be taken lightly.  i can see your point in that you feel who you are is a natural state within you , but  i would call that dominant not Master though. 

The 2 premises that don't make sense are Define Master any way you wish, and then perfrom in such a mannner, i assume, in accordance to how you define being a Master.  But i can see where our thinking is seperated - i don't see "Master" as a natural state - dominance maybe, whereas i think you do see being a Master as a natural state within yourself.  It would be like saying  - i am born male - how do you become a male? - huh??  That would confuse a lot of people because most believe you're just born that way, it's not something you have to learn.  i would agree with this to a point but boys and girls are socialized differently so we do even learn how to be the gender we are to a certain extent. 

When i hear "you do as you wish" i don't think of a Master as much as i think of a dictator - not trying to offend but to me a Master is wise enough to consider the needs of his property and doesn't only do as he wishes.

i do think part of what a dominant or "Master" feels is inherent but i also think there is a lot to learn along the way for him to perfect more who he is - just like one can be a natural at art, but if they go to a great art school they will become gifted artists.

i don't advocate at all that Masters or dominants should go around and just play a role or emulate others  - well they can do that if they want, or if they are not creative, or have little motivation, or don't know what they really desire from a slave - but even learning the dynamics of your slave takes an investment of time and energy. 

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 10:17:39 PM   
OnyxDelphi


Posts: 138
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		Well damn. Ty guys.

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 10:35:39 PM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		There is no set thing as a Master......it's simply somthing people call themselves.......not everyone even agrees what a Master is.....do you have to own a slave? does an online slave count? for how long? does anyone know the definition of a slave?

I don't call myself a Master...I am me.....people call me Wood......it would be accurate to describe me as Dominant....am I a Master? who knows.....I would advise you don't worry too much about labelling yourself, because there's bound to be someone who disagrees with whatever label you choose....I think you're not asking for any definition of Master, you want to know how to Dominate someone.....and how to be good at it.

Dominate someone by telling them what to do.

To be good at it?......that is more complicated, but if you're being obeyed and both you and they are happy....that's a good sign.




I would advise you talk to submissives.......get to know how they think and feel and react to things......for me, talking to submissives taught me 100 times more than talking to Dommes ever did.....

< Message edited by DCWoody -- 5/30/2007 10:37:03 PM >

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/30/2007 10:53:54 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

my personal view is that just cause you think you are something, or you call yourself something - doesnt make you that something.  i think the term Master requires some work to be earned and i also think it's a responsibility not to be taken lightly.  i can see your point in that you feel who you are is a natural state within you , but  i would call that dominant not Master though. 


Though I'd ask, why would you call it dominant instead of being a Master?  If one acts as a "seasoned" Master does naturally, must he further study to become something different to claim the title? 

I can understand and accept that many people work hard to understand this dynamic and act according to it.  Though, if one felt naturally within it- for one, it wasn't work nor study, just felt right to act in such ways- would this one not be such a thing?  Such as, if one could step into the kitchen and make something delicious from creativity, or could just pick up a cookbook and make the things out of it without studying the equipment or learning from another, isn't that just as good (if not better)?


quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

The 2 premises that don't make sense are Define Master any way you wish, and then perfrom in such a mannner, i assume, in accordance to how you define being a Master.


I basically said this because, well, a Master can be just about anything.  Everyone has their own definition- convention only agrees upon a loose interpretation, and that's while in context!

For me, being a Master means I own, control, care for, and take responsibility of my slave(s).  For others (as I was flamed for on my Masterhood thread, despite my disclaimer..), being a Master simply means being a Dom, only a bit more controlling.  For others, it means yet different things.

So, the bottom line is, someone has to figure out what it means to them.  Or to assess themself, and define it based on such, should oneself conform to the contextual general interpretation, as was my case.


quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

But i can see where our thinking is seperated - i don't see "Master" as a natural state - dominance maybe, whereas i think you do see being a Master as a natural state within yourself.  It would be like saying  - i am born male - how do you become a male? - huh??  That would confuse a lot of people because most believe you're just born that way, it's not something you have to learn.  i would agree with this to a point but boys and girls are socialized differently so we do even learn how to be the gender we are to a certain extent.


I agree- this does sound like a place where our thinking diverges.

The concept of "becoming" a Master strikes me as odd.  I mean, trust me, I understand I wasn't even always into girls- I came to enjoy females.  Perhaps my hetrosexuality was even influencable.  Still, I adopted a dominance about the time I did a taste for females.. (yes, I had reoccuring dreams of Polly Pocket being bound and gagged.. okay, just laugh, get it out of the system.. everyone done?  Good.  (I hope!)).

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

When i hear "you do as you wish" i don't think of a Master as much as i think of a dictator - not trying to offend but to me a Master is wise enough to consider the needs of his property and doesn't only do as he wishes.


My slave is also my pet.  So, I'd ask you consider a dog.

Are you cruel to your dog?  Do you take care of it?  Do you consider it before yourself?  For me, the answers are, respectively: no, yes, and no.  I care for my slave, but she is, ultimately, my slave, my pet.  She serves me- and she's happy in such a role.  I love her, and care for her, but, when it comes down to it, it's my direction she follows- I don't, superficially, ask her what she wants, then tell her to do it, pretending that that's somehow being dominant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i do think part of what a dominant or "Master" feels is inherent but i also think there is a lot to learn along the way for him to perfect more who he is - just like one can be a natural at art, but if they go to a great art school they will become gifted artists.


"Master" does carry an honorfric aspect to many.  Still, one may have experience with deep relationships before entering the lifestyle- and may simply make predetermined changes to one's own actions while conducting a relationship under its template. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i don't advocate at all that Masters or dominants should go around and just play a role or emulate others  - well they can do that if they want, or if they are not creative, or have little motivation, or don't know what they really desire from a slave - but even learning the dynamics of your slave takes an investment of time and energy. 


I suppose that, at the core, this is our second divance of view.

What does it mean, to "learn the dynamics"?  This is an honest question- I'm not sure what people need to learn.  Perhaps I'm missing something?

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 4:21:38 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		If someone were to ask me, I would say becomming a Master is the same as striving to develop the same qualities that make a person a good leader. Decisiveness, self assurance, confidence, self control, trustworthiness, constinancy, enthuisiam and proactiveness, discipline, and a sense of responsibility are just some of the few that I can name off the top of my head.

It would be trying to develop the skills required to teach and make people want to listen to you...which is an art in itself.

The people who I trully respect and have developed these qualities and skills also have a developed sense of personal gratification from watching people grow and develop and are not seeking solely fulfillment of personal desire.

I would say the building block for all this is humility. Someone who is too arrogant or egotistical to look at themselves objectively and level headedly wont have any sense of self awareness. And without self awareness, you cant really grow and improve.

Now that I have oversimplified a very complicated concept to make myself seem cool and awesome, I doubt the majority of people will ever achieve this ideal of perfection. I certainly havent.

So I would say becomming a Master is a journey of growth and self development that stretches your entire life. Much like the stories of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, nobody ever really gets there, but its the quest for the pot and the development threw experiences that make the story.

Dont worry too much about standing up to the people who place themselves on a pedestal with fluffy self aprondizing ideals of how great of a Master they are.

Dropping the bar down to the realm of reality where people are just simply people and not great godlike knights of virtue...

I would say someone becomes a Master when they develop the basic behaviors that make someone a responsible adult and a decent human being (Keeping a job, setting some goals for your own self improvement, being on time for things other than happy hour at the bar) stops strutting around with a cocky attitude like they are God's Dominant gift to mankind, and start treating people with some degree of sincere courtesy and respect.


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/31/2007 4:23:30 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to OnyxDelphi)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 4:47:04 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		After reading the banter between CuriousLord and a couple other posters I decided to read the profile of CuriousLord and found this journal entry:  "For those, the majority, who would not pay submission to reason: I truly hate you.  Someday, some way, I will make you pay."

This in and of itself is not only confusing, but well, scary.  It was sandwiched between an entry about stress and possible bipolar disorder.  A Master this boy is not.  I felt that when I read his posts to this OP and I felt it more when I read his profile.  I highly suggest you don't take your cues from this "born Master because I like to control people" OP.  He feels he has nothing to learn and that's simply stupid in theory and practice.



_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 5:04:47 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		While I can appreciate the honesty, is the statement "One doctor, at a time, thought I might be bipolar." really that far out there?  I mean, hell, the "at a time" was referring to my father's passing, when, well, I was depressed.  And, no, I wasn't diagnosed as bipolar- he suggested I might be.  From that time on, I mused over the notion of what it means to be bipolar.
Kinda weird how far out of context you were able to take that.

The "For those, the majority, who would not pay submission to reason: I truly hate you.  Someday, some way, I will make you pay" was basically being annoyed at stupid people.  "Submission to reason" is thinking.  "Truly hating" is being pissed at the lack of it.  "Make you pay" is teaching.  Call me odd, though I often personify stupidity as something outside of what it means to be human.  I feel it's a monster to be slain.  You kill it through gently explaining things.  Sometimes, I forget this, falling from reason myself and just get annoyed and hostile with people I perceive as slow.

I'm afraid your fear and confusion, along with the accompanying malicious remark, is sort of that lack of submission to reason I truly hate.  Instead of asking for clarification, one posted with hostile intent.

Meh.  I tend to be long-winded.  Probably should be brief.

Still, earthycouple, do not mistake me.  I said I had nothing to learn from here outside of refinements.. not that I had nothing to learn.  I even recommended learning about how a slave works..

Ah wells.  Is this sort of reply going to be responded to in earnest, or am I talking to a victim of built-up aggression?

(in reply to earthycouple)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 5:12:27 AM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

The "For those, the majority, who would not pay submission to reason: I truly hate you.  Someday, some way, I will make you pay" was basically being annoyed at stupid people.  "Submission to reason" is thinking.  "Truly hating" is being pissed at the lack of it.  "Make you pay" is teaching.  .



Not to jump on a band wagon or anything but come on! "I will make you pay" translates into your speach as teach?

This reminds me of Eminem when he made deragatory comments about Homosexuals and then came back and said he actually just meant stupid people.

Nobody bought that either.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 5:18:37 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		When you see stupidity as a living being?  Yes, a threat against it is paramount to teaching.  Hence why I'm a tutor and spend a lot of time on this board.

Unless, of course, you think I'm a serial killer, going to kill everyone with an IQ of less than 130.  Then I'm not really sure how to respond to that.

Edit:  Actually, screw it.  I'll be blunt.

To me, it seems a lot of people out there do stupid things.  Believe in stupid things.  Aren't willing to debate them, or logically consider them.  They just want to whine and say they're right without debating something.  Many are just plain hostile to views that they disagree with.  Sort of like the Domme I was responding to.

To me, being unreasonable and unwilling to debate things is practically a crime.  It's in violation and to the determent of the truth I live for.  It's heniously disgusting.

I would love to make these people pay.  How?  For one moment, I would like them to see themselves through my eyes.   To begin to comprehend the degree to which they strike me as disgusting would be a horror in excess of any retribution I would care for.

Sometimes, I don't blaim the people, but the way that they were taught to think.  I realize that they trusted society to teach them how to be, and that I couldn't fault them for their trust in those around them so much, nor could I fault them any more for the consquences of such a trust.  At times like this, the stupidity that came from social reasonings is something personified- demonfied, really- and I come to hate it.

When it comes down to it, it's a war to fight, to me.  No one has to be mortally fearful- I would see it as determental to my cause for anything to ever be physically violent.  Or anything of the sort.  I perfer to fight my war in words- to try to reason with people.  To help others understand the foundations and basis of logic.  To break the major superstitions, such as religion and common misinformation.  I'd like to highlight the use of definition, logic, and observation.

So, anyone can fear me, I suppose.  I'll debate the stupidity and lack of perception of as much as I can bring myself to.  I'll do it, with a passionate hate for misunderstandings.  Still, it's never the people I hate.  To me, they're the victims- having, in naive innocence, placed trust into a confused society.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/31/2007 5:36:19 AM >

(in reply to drawntothedark)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 5:37:39 AM   
littlespicyone


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		I think being an anything is a combination of inner nature and education. I'm a natural submissive: I have always taken joy in serving. submitting, and making people smile. I didn't realize there was a name for it until I was 19, but that doesn't change my inner nature. Discovering that there is a name for what and who I am was a life-changing event and it set me on a path of self-discovery which has made me the woman I am today. During that journey, I've learned so much about the lifestyle in practice and history as well as learned about both roles through reading and discussion (Did you know scientists have been studying sadism and masochism since the Victorian age?) and I would not give myself to someone who didn't value his role enough to learn about it and I would NEVER give myself to someone who didn't have enough self-awareness and self-knowledge to know what he wants and why.

So, in answer to the OP ... from a submissive: Now that you've discovered the desire to lead/own learn to lead/own yourself and then learn about the lifestyle. You don't have to learn how to be dominant because you already are. And as long as you've mastered yourself, you'll akways be a Master.

_____________________________

I touched the soil, and he loved me back.

(in reply to drawntothedark)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 5:50:36 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Glad to see someone else has a similar view.

Hope that "someone who didn't have enough self-awareness and self-knowledge to know what he wants and why" wasn't aimed at me, though.  (Just grumbling about it since Mad posted it aimed at me.  Lil guy's been stalking me and sending me plenty of hate mail over some sort of grudge.)

I'm hoping people start to get my point.  You shouldn't have to learn to be who you are.  You can learn about it- you, by all means, should question it, and be curious about it- but you shouldn't have to train yourself.  Not in my view, anyhow.

To other responses:
Now, seriously, people quit claiming I said no one should learn.  I said "Act as you will" and that I "would question the wisdom" in adopting a stance someone doesn't naturally feel.

And, yes, I do feel like someone who's a Master should naturally feel dominant and controlling.  Unless you want a Dom who's constantly working to feel those ways.

Yes, there's negative conotations attached to "controlling" as, in the vanilla world, it's often a flag for abuse.  This is the BDSM-world.  Dominance is control.  Both are okay here.  Stop trying to flag me as some psycopath for having the blunt nature to say it.  (If you think controlling or being controlled is scary, why the hell are you even in this life?)

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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 6:13:51 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		I aways prefered the line in LEATHER FOLK that said, Masters are not born, nor are they made, they are awakened.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 6:16:51 AM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		It's certainly a neat-sounding concept.  Would you mind elaborating on it a bit and explaining?

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 6:44:06 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		A person can be born with all sorts of natural abilities, none of them not even the natural desire to dominate to the nth degree will make them a Master. A person can study all day long the subjects of leadership and influence, and any other subject under the sun and it will not make them a Master.

Something happens though to awaken some folks who have both the ability and the learning and it transforms them.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 8:29:44 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I am just glad my training began in the womb or some of these new 20 something dominants who already know everything would be more "natural" than me.  Not only that but my bloodline was bred for natural dominant traits so not only did my training begin in the womb but it was training of my almost supernatural dominant traits.

God forbid one of these fake upstarts who actually has to learn by doing, has the audacity to make mistakes not just once but a few times before they sink in, or even worse has to get some silly life experience in order to gain enough perspective to understand it isn't just dark outside but that their head is shoved so fucking deep up their ass that that light they think is so bright is nothing but a very very dim bulb.

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 8:35:18 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

What does it mean, to "learn the dynamics"?  This is an honest question- I'm not sure what people need to learn.  Perhaps I'm missing something?


Yep

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 9:17:02 AM   
TopinPa


Posts: 111
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline 		As for your question about how to "become a master" is concerned, to me, it is like most things in this life, you become what you do.  From my perspective, it isn't a destination that you actually arrive at.  It's a journey that you experience.  You learn as you go and you never stop learning or growing. 
  slave joy
Owned property of Master David




This is the best response to the OP I've read....I totally agree and would only add mentoring from a Master that owns a collared slave and knows more than you

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
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RE: Becoming a Master/ Personal Ideas... - 5/31/2007 9:26:12 AM   
SireKane


Posts: 105
Joined: 1/22/2004
Status: offline 		"I propose everyone act naturally.  If, naturally, they guide and such, and give some orders, congrats!, they're a Dom(me).  If they naturally demand another follow them, as to be their property, and take control and responsibility, woot!, you're a {Master/Mistress}!  If they.. (sub, slave, etc., etc.) "

Very well said CuriousLord. In my opinion, you are a master as long as you own  a slave.

Kane


Kane


(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 40
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