curious..... (Full Version)

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caramelcutie -> curious..... (5/30/2007 9:47:39 AM)

I was just curious as to what you would define as a vanilla.  What specific things set a vanilla apart from a person who chooses to participate in the BDSM lifestyle?  Is that the only distinction?  Is it anyone who chooses not to engage in any sort of alternative lifestyle?  Is it purely a sexual distinction?  Is it a heterosexual couple that live a "normal" life engaging in ONLY vaginal penetration, limited sexual positions?  Would the addition of oral sex or toys, which some would consider a "kink", make them no longer vanilla?  Is a homosexual couple, who just enjoy each other without the addition of any outside "kink" considered vanilla.  Are they no longer vanilla because they chose to live an alternative lifestyle. Is the couple who, in the safety and privacy of their home, choose to explore their sexuality and desires without venturing out into the local fetish community and participation regularly considered vanilla? 

I'm trying to convey my true question to the best of my ability...although i feel i'm coming up short of exactly what i'm trying to ask lol.  I joined collarchat at the end of last year.  I was referred by a friend.  I didn't take much time then, mostly due to personal reasons, to take the time and look around and explore.  The last week or so i've been able to look closer at the site and i've loved it.  I've been reading and learning alot.  I'm not a complete noob lol...i have heard the term vanilla before.....just never took the time to really consider for myself what it means.  Am I vanilla?  I won't go into much about that here as i feel it isn't the place.  I was just curious about this....and curious as to what different people here define "vanilla" as.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 9:54:06 AM)

For me vanilla means NOT oriented to be in relationships which are based on authority transfer.

But then you've got lots of people into kinky stuff but not into Ds or Ms relationships, so perhaps we'll add "also not interested in any sort of activity generally called kinky"

And you've got lots of people in Ms or Ds relationships who have "vanilla sex" and enjoy it a lot.

As with any label, apply lightly and don't read too much into it.





caramelcutie -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 10:07:48 AM)

Thank you LA...i've enjoyed reading your posts, but am dissappointed that in response to mine there were no links to be found?!?!  An oversight perhaps? (Just kidding)

I hope i'm not reading too much into it....just noticed alot of debate here on vanilla vs. BDSM and was curious as to what some saw as the distinction.  It seems it can be quite a blurred line.



darkinshadows -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 10:13:46 AM)

For me, vanilla is used by other people when they simply want to seperate wiitwd from those who don't.  Usually it is used in a negative way as in 'BDSM relationship have more communication than vanilla' for example.
It is forcing a seperation that doesn;t need to exist.
 
BDSM and 'vanilla' are simply life realities to different sections of people.
Sometimes they combine - sometimes people like to keep it seperate.
 
Use the word as it works for you - and don't rely on the definitions of others.
(In other words, what I think is pointless[;)])
 
Peace



crouchingtigress -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 10:58:04 AM)

the root of the word comes from the idea of there being well over thirty one flavors of ice cream and some folks just go for the simplest and the one they know the best....

Vanilla is actually really wonderful to experience, my dad used to make vanilla ice cream when i was a kid and we all took turns cranking the handle, , we cranked until all of our arms were tired and limp, and dad being the strong awesome dad he was , finished 2/3rds of the cranking making him a super hero in our eyes.... and you would taste the genital nuances of the vanilla bean, and the fresh cream and the raw sugar....but it was such a treat because we all made it it together......vanilla can be wonderful.

i think all good relationships start with a healthy helping of vanilla: the cuddles, the walks, the talks, the sunsets...

then you can add to that the swirls of chocolate, the fresh boysenberry's, the colored sprinkles, the Oreo cookies, the hot runny fudge, the warm cherrys, the raw coffee beans.....oh and the whipped cream....you cant forget the whipped cream[:)]






earthycouple -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 11:06:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

the root of the word comes from the idea of there being well over thirty one flavors of ice cream and some folks just go for the simplest and the one they know the best....

Vanilla is actually really wonderful to experience, my dad used to make vanilla ice cream when i was a kid and we all took turns cranking the handle, , we cranked until all of our arms were tired and limp, and dad being the strong awesome dad he was , finished 2/3rds of the cranking making him a super hero in our eyes.... and you would taste the genital nuances of the vanilla bean, and the fresh cream and the raw sugar....but it was such a treat because we all made it it together......vanilla can be wonderful.

i think all good relationships start with a healthy helping of vanilla: the cuddles, the walks, the talks, the sunsets...

then you can add to that the swirls of chocolate, the fresh boysenberry's, the colored sprinkles, the Oreo cookies, the hot runny fudge, the warm cherrys, the raw coffee beans.....oh and the whipped cream....you cant forget the whipped cream[:)]






Freudian slip?



earthycouple -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 11:09:26 AM)

I have no idea what the answer to this is.  My husband doesn't partake in power exchange, my slave and I do.  I don't (yet) have intercourse with my slave.  I have kinky sex with my husband sometimes...who is what???  Got me.

Vanilla is a nice smell, an exotic flower, and a flavor I don't like unless covered in chocolate sauce.



dawntreader -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 1:35:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

.... and you would taste the genital nuances of the vanilla bean,


Freudian slip?


Mmmm...i wonder too[:)]



crouchingtigress -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 1:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

.... and you would taste the genital nuances of the vanilla bean,


Freudian slip?


Mmmm...i wonder too[:)]


mmmmmmmmm lovely thought thankyou....but i can take no credit, my spell check is a little pervy after all these years hanging out with me!



CuriousLord -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 1:44:28 PM)

A "vanilla" relationship is, vaguely, a relationship that is relatively close to social norms- not much power transferrance either way, not typically too many toys or such in sex, lack of sadism/masochism.  Now, trust me, a lot of relationships has a dominant partner and a submissive partner that are vanilla.  Many people naturally deviate yet never truly explore it.

A "BDSM" relationship is one that empathises more strongly the dominance/submission or/and sadistic/masochistic dynamics, all on consentual levels.

A more clear definition of a "vanilla" relationship might be "not BDSM".  This deviates from the first by including coerced slavery as vanilla (not to say that everyone in the vanilla world would accept it).

They're both loosely defined terms, though, with gray areas.



Mercnbeth -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 3:48:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caramelcutie

I was just curious as to what you would define as a vanilla.



socially/culturally accepted behavior, beliefs and/or ideals
 
example:
 
Rev. Al Sharpton and Hugh Hefner are both vanilla icons.
 
If either of them lived a private, unpublicized alternative lifestyle that this slave suddenly was made aware of, she would consider them as living double lives, which many vanillas do.
 
If, in fact, Hugh and Al came out and said they've been outright bisexuals this whole time and were moving somewhere they could marry each other and have an open relationship where they would still have intimate sexual relationships with women, this slave would still consider them vanilla with a bit of a twist.
 
If it was then related that they decided they were going to spice it up a bit by playing a little slap and tickle in the bedroom/playspace from time to time, this slave would consider them kinky vanilla with a little twist.
 
If, Al became Hugh's Master and they set up a poly family household consisting of all manner of male and female bisexual switch slave's that they sometimes take on the road with them when they travel to events, munches and/or playparties, this slave would stop thinking of them as kinky vanilla and would consider they probably have some type of alternative lifestyle relationship going on between them.
 
she wouldn't, however, insist to them they weren't whatever they believed themselves to be, regardless of her perception of them.



LadyPaige -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 4:23:47 PM)

I'm beginning to wonder if there are any lifestyle terms other than activities with actual definitions.



MissHarlet -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 4:33:20 PM)

I know a " Dominant" an online dominant that calls himself a " butterscotch" Dom .. does that complicate these definitions even more// LOL



caramelcutie -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 4:35:56 PM)

Makes sense to me. :)  And i'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but.....

quote:

If, Al became Hugh's Master and they set up a poly family household consisting of all manner of male and female bisexual switch slave's that they sometimes take on the road with them when they travel to events, munches and/or playparties, this slave would stop thinking of them as kinky vanilla and would consider they probably have some type of alternative lifestyle relationship going on between them.

 
What if Hugh and his Master decide to not have a poly household, attend a minimal amout of munches, events, playparties, etc., if at all?  What if they are solid and comfortable, content in the simple transfer of power that has occured with the two?  It seems to me that the only distinction between a vanilla and a lifestyler is someone who makes the effort to socialize with others who've chosen the same lifestyle.  I'm not saying doing that is not important to maybe growing and learning.  Would you consider someone who never attends events, but is living the lifestyle every other way, vanilla?
 
I'm not trying to ruffle feathers...and i sincerely hope i am not.  I'm just curious for my own knowledge.  And now i'm curious why it matters to me lol.  This is something i'm exploring for myself.  BDSM is not new to me....i DO however have limited practical experience.  I recently went searching online for munches to attend....mostly from spending days and days reading here and deciding that would be the next logical step in my journey.  I found some but then looked again and with a mixture of disappointment and relief found that those events were posted almost exactly one year ago lol. 
 
I'm finding myself choosing my words carefully as not to be misinterpreted....as i've seen how someone can be chewed to bits on this board, and i'm not sure if my meek lil self could handle it lol.  So please bear with me...or ignore me...whichever works best for you.  :) Thank You.



velvetears -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 5:09:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissHarlet

I know a " Dominant" an online dominant that calls himself a " butterscotch" Dom .. does that complicate these definitions even more// LOL


i have a vanilla guy friend who now calls himself a swirl - i may have a semi convert on my hands :-)



HornyToadsMI -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 6:13:09 PM)

CuriousLord -

Please allow me to humbly disagree with your definition.  In my other lifestyle (yes, i am one of those nasty swinger types...lol) Vanilla is defined as having monogamous sex in your relationship, no matter how miserable you may be.  Therefore, those of us who indulge in anything other than the socially excepted norm are not Vanilla.  I do hate labels.....but it does make something more exciting cuz it is dirty!!!  lol.  And to be honest, most relationships do have some form of power transfer, they just don't realize it.  Boss/employee, Husband/wife (I don't mean to classify as Male/female since so many other variations exist). 

My Boss (Toad) just pointed out that Vanilla really only exists in Fairytales - where two people run off and live "happily ever after".  So, I guess that makes all of us the norm....talk about a mind warp!

toadette



dcnovice -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 6:15:31 PM)

quote:

I was just curious as to what you would define as a vanilla.


The stripe between the chocolate and the strawberry.



caramelcutie -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 6:27:05 PM)

quote:

The stripe between the chocolate and the strawberry.


how clever.   [:D]



CuriousLord -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 6:29:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HornyToadsMI

CuriousLord -

Please allow me to humbly disagree with your definition.  In my other lifestyle (yes, i am one of those nasty swinger types...lol) Vanilla is defined as having monogamous sex in your relationship, no matter how miserable you may be.  Therefore, those of us who indulge in anything other than the socially excepted norm are not Vanilla.  I do hate labels.....but it does make something more exciting cuz it is dirty!!!  lol.  And to be honest, most relationships do have some form of power transfer, they just don't realize it.  Boss/employee, Husband/wife (I don't mean to classify as Male/female since so many other variations exist). 


That's an interesting view.

Perhaps, would should say that, to be vanilla with respect to a lifestyle is to not embrace it, in favor of more convential norms?  For BDSM, this would mean without pronounced D/s or sado-masochistic aspects, for, swingers, this would mean monogomous aspects.

Or, then, you could defined vanilla with respect to several lifestyles- such as, both BDSM and the swinger lifestyle, in which case "vanilla" would mean a lack of all aspects considered deviant in BDSM and the swinger lifestyle- this is to say, being vanilla with both respects would be relatively mutual-control, no sadism/masochistm, and monogomous.

I was defining "vanilla with respect to BDSM", as I feel it was context.  But your point that "vanilla" can be with respect to other things as well is a good one, calling for a more complete definition.



MissHarlet -> RE: curious..... (5/30/2007 6:31:40 PM)

My horrible secret is .. and please do NOT tell anyone ....

I LIKE VANILLA .. ice cream!!

LOL



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