RE: My place, or yours?

RE: My place, or yours? (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/3/2007 1:24:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord From the responses so far, I take it that scene BDSM calls for vanilla social standings outside of scenes while lifestyle BDSMers might take their roles with them with regards to their interactions with others? I have no idea what this question is asking, can you restate? It's rhetorical. Mostly, it's stating, in reiteration: -Scene BDSM, as defined it in my first response, calls for participants to act as vanilla individuals would outside of scenes. -Lifestyle BDSM, as similarly defined, allows for participants to act in their natural roles outside of BDSM scenes. It also states that it seems responses so far seem to support this view. I used a rhetroical question instead of a simple statement as to give it a suggestive quality; I carry the hope that a softer statement would be more likely to be taken into sincere consideration. I feel that this is important, as I do not know if my point is immediately clear to all potiential readers.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/3/2007 2:08:20 PM)
I guess my confusion is that there is no difference between "acting vanilla" and "acting lifestyle" They look exactly the same, the actions are exactly the same. Opening the car door still looks just like opening the car door.

KnightofMists -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/3/2007 5:54:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross .They look exactly the same, the actions are exactly the same. Opening the car door still looks just like opening the car door. Really??!!! Damn... here I thought I was being intensively kinky when I opened my car door. Well another illusion dispelled.... thank you Lucky... next your going to tell me their is no Santa Clause either.

velvetears -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 8:21:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Seriously, I EARNED my title of 'slave' years ago, I did not take it, I earned it; r/t, hard work, training {12 areas at last count}, learning. I was called 'submissive' by partners, then after a while, I did earn my 'title' as you call it, that's one reason why I loathe being called 'a sub' that little part of me in the back will get fired up and pissed. Its a BIG step backward to be called such after you have worked hard for something. Its like being a VP of a company to having someone call you a 'junior partner.' You earned your title then someone disrespects you in such a malicious manner. Your disdain for submissves is palpable in your above statement. A submissive isn't a "junior partner" while the slave is VP. A submissive can be a VP, she just works for a different company and could not be a VP in your company. Why would you assume only slaves work to earn their title? A sub isn't a lesser status than slave, they are two seperate dynamics and you cannot gauge the amount of "work to earn" just based on a title - that is akin to saying my way is better than your way.

IrishMist -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 8:25:39 AM)
quote: How does one decide their place? In the past, when I was in a relationship, my place was decided by my partner. quote: Is it given to you? Taken from you? Given yes; taken no. HOw can one take away the floor? [:)] quote: For you, what defines, and determines YOUR place, he defined and determined my place in his life quote: Why would a slave, or sub's place be lower than a Master's or Dom's? Why wouldn't it be equal in worth, but merely different in context and concept? this is more of a personal nature. I just do not believe that a slave is equal to that of the owner.

slaverosebeauty -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 8:35:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Your disdain for submissves is palpable in your above statement. A submissive isn't a "junior partner" while the slave is VP. A submissive can be a VP, she just works for a different company and could not be a VP in your company. Why would you assume only slaves work to earn their title? A sub isn't a lesser status than slave, they are two seperate dynamics and you cannot gauge the amount of "work to earn" just based on a title - that is akin to saying my way is better than your way. How you can read a LOT into something that is not there; plesae go back and READ what was said in context; I said that calling a slave a submisisve is like calling a VP a junior partner, its disrespectfull. I don't have a problem with submisives; I just draw a line at what a submissive is and what a slave is. After all the research I have done, I better know the difference. I know plenty of submissives who have earned their title of 'submissive.' What I meant was, some people just pick a word, ie 'slave' or 'submissive' and say 'ok thats my title now.' They got it out ofd thin air, then did NOTHING to earn it, they just grabbed it. So it has no real 'meaning' for lack of a better term. Anything can say they are a slave or a submissive or a master or a dominant, but, they are JUST words until they have the experience and/knowledge to back them up and actually 'posess' that title. {i hope that made sence}

MadRabbit -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 8:40:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross .They look exactly the same, the actions are exactly the same. Opening the car door still looks just like opening the car door. Really??!!! Damn... here I thought I was being intensively kinky when I opened my car door. Well another illusion dispelled.... thank you Lucky... next your going to tell me their is no Santa Clause either. No...see...when you open your car door as opposed to letting one of your girls do it, you are stepping out of your chosen roleplay.

mistoferin -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 8:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Your disdain for submissves is palpable in your above statement. How you can read a LOT into something that is not there; plesae go back and READ what was said in context; I think she got it because she was reading what IS there. You said "I did earn my 'title' as you call it, that's one reason why I loathe being called 'a sub' that little part of me in the back will get fired up and pissed. Its a BIG step backward to be called such after you have worked hard for something. Its like being a VP of a company to having someone call you a 'junior partner.' You earned your title then someone disrespects you in such a malicious manner." So being referred to as submissive would be a step backward. You used the analogy that being a slave is like being a VP, and being a called a submissive would be as disrespectful as referring to a VP as a junior partner. You said such would be disrespectful and malicious. Your words certainly seem to express that you feel your "title" of slave makes you more advanced or places you above or ahead of submissives.

velvetears -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 9:06:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Your disdain for submissves is palpable in your above statement. A submissive isn't a "junior partner" while the slave is VP. A submissive can be a VP, she just works for a different company and could not be a VP in your company. Why would you assume only slaves work to earn their title? A sub isn't a lesser status than slave, they are two seperate dynamics and you cannot gauge the amount of "work to earn" just based on a title - that is akin to saying my way is better than your way. How you can read a LOT into something that is not there; plesae go back and READ what was said in context; I said that calling a slave a submisisve is like calling a VP a junior partner, its disrespectfull. I don't have a problem with submisives; I just draw a line at what a submissive is and what a slave is. After all the research I have done, I better know the difference. I know plenty of submissives who have earned their title of 'submissive.' What I meant was, some people just pick a word, ie 'slave' or 'submissive' and say 'ok thats my title now.' They got it out ofd thin air, then did NOTHING to earn it, they just grabbed it. So it has no real 'meaning' for lack of a better term. Anything can say they are a slave or a submissive or a master or a dominant, but, they are JUST words until they have the experience and/knowledge to back them up and actually 'posess' that title. {i hope that made sence} i think i read you pretty clearly. quote: slaverosebeauty I loathe being called 'a sub' ..... .....Its a BIG step backward to be called such after you have worked hard for something...... "loathe" is a very emotionally charged word - why would being called something your not bring up loating in you, why not just correct them? If i am a principal in a school and someone walks up to me assuming i am a teacher it would not make me "loathe" teachers or even being called one - i would simply point out who i was - the principal. Saying it's a step backwards is saying submissives are behind slaves, that they are less than slaves. One day when they get a step up they might become the noble status of slave? i disagree. quote: slaverosebeauty I know plenty of submissives who have earned their title of 'submissive.' What I meant was, some people just pick a word, ie 'slave' or 'submissive' and say 'ok thats my title now.' They got it out ofd thin air, then did NOTHING to earn it, they just grabbed it. So it has no real 'meaning' for lack of a better term. Anything can say they are a slave or a submissive or a master or a dominant, but, they are JUST words until they have the experience and/knowledge to back them up and actually 'posess' that title. {i hope that made sence} Sure anyone can call themselves anything they want - i can say i am the easter bunny if i realy want to, doubt i will get anyone to agree with me. Actions speak louder then words. Who decides how much earning one has to do to claim the title of anything? If i play tennis for one summer i can call myself a tennis player, just like the pro tennis player who has played 20 years, he just plays a better game then me - but we are both tennis players. When you say "real meaning" are you really saying - the same meaing it has for me? Sounds to me like it. You earn your status in other peoples eyes through living what you claim to be.

slaveluci -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 9:14:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I think she got it because she was reading what IS there. You said "I did earn my 'title' as you call it, that's one reason why I loathe being called 'a sub' that little part of me in the back will get fired up and pissed. Its a BIG step backward to be called such after you have worked hard for something. Its like being a VP of a company to having someone call you a 'junior partner.' You earned your title then someone disrespects you in such a malicious manner." So being referred to as submissive would be a step backward. You used the analogy that being a slave is like being a VP, and being a called a submissive would be as disrespectful as referring to a VP as a junior partner. You said such would be disrespectful and malicious. Your words certainly seem to express that you feel your "title" of slave makes you more advanced or places you above or ahead of submissives. The whole idea of "earning" one's "title" just doesn't make much sense to me. How exactly do you earn it, who decides you've done enough to have "earned" it, etc, etc. I am my Master's slave because He says so. I didn't have to complete "X" number of tasks or jump through "X" number of hoops to "earn" anything. He wanted to own me, I wanted to be His property, and I am. I didn't have to prove or earn anything first. Erin, this just seems to be more nonsense from yet another clueless "expert." She is one of the only "real" slaves in existence (according to her own words on another site) and yet she ONLY "dates vanilla men." That statement alone ought to be enough to set off the BS detector. Based on her numerous posts on another site I enjoy (she has since been banned there), she is usually pretty clueless and is one of the last people, in my humble opinion, who should be "mentoring" others. I mean, I could claim to be the world's greatest auto mechanic but if I can't tell you how to do a basic oil change, I don't think you should trust my "vast wisdom." Same here.....if one only makes nonsensical, contradictory statements, why buy into their claims of being a fount of BDSM knowledge? Just an observation........luci Edited to add: Before anyone thinks I'm being too harsh, let me just give a tiny example of the type of "sage advice and wisdom" she offered to someone about what a "total slave" is: Beign a 'total slave' as yuo put it would mean that yuo speak in ONLY 3rd person if that; you would have to refer to yourself in the 'it' sence as a few on here do, you would ALSO have to have NO sence of worth or be allowed to make ANY decision. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image]

slaveluci -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 9:22:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears [Sure anyone can call themselves anything they want - i can say i am the easter bunny if i realy want to, doubt i will get anyone to agree with me. Actions speak louder then words. Who decides how much earning one has to do to claim the title of anything? If i play tennis for one summer i can call myself a tennis player, just like the pro tennis player who has played 20 years, he just plays a better game then me - but we are both tennis players. When you say "real meaning" are you really saying - the same meaing it has for me? Sounds to me like it. You earn your status in other peoples eyes through living what you claim to be. Great points, velvet. You made 'em while I was still typing[:D]. I find it the height of irony that the one claiming that anybody can just grab a "title" without "earning" it has apparently done just that herself. I don't know what she thinks the approved process is for "earning" one's "title" but, whatever it is, I don't think she's completed it herself. Her posts and her actions on this and other boards don't seem to fit into any definition of "slave" I've ever seen professed by anyone but her. Alas it IS true....anyone can say they are anything. That does not make it so.....luci

mistoferin -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 9:23:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci How exactly do you earn it, who decides you've done enough to have "earned" it, etc, etc. Oh come on now luci, don't claim to be so ignorant! EVERYONE knows that such a title can only be bestowed upon one by faithfully attending and satisfactorily completing all of the weekend slave training seminars (yes, including spice, point and expectance) at the Secret European Slave Training Academy of the 12th Order! Or were you just being silly?

slaveluci -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 9:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci How exactly do you earn it, who decides you've done enough to have "earned" it, etc, etc. Oh come on now luci, don't claim to be so ignorant! EVERYONE knows that such a title can only be bestowed upon one by faithfully attending and satisfactorily completing all of the weekend slave training seminars (yes, including spice, point and expectance) at the Secret European Slave Training Academy of the 12th Order! Or were you just being silly? Dang, Erin. You busted me. I KNEW that I had to complete those before becoming owned but I thought I could fool everyone and get by without doing it. Now, I'm found out. I'm so ashamed[8D]. While I'm confessing that I got my title undeservedly, I might as well admit all. I never had a....gulp.....mentor/protector, either. Oh, the horror of having everyone know I'm not a ''real slave." How can I ever come back here again[;)]........luci

velvetears -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 11:28:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci I am my Master's slave because He says so. That in essence is what it really is all about - and if he says so it's more then likely because you have proved to him, in your own personal way, that you deserve and are worthy of that title. You could spent 5 to 10 years learning the 12 areas of whatever and never have really learned the true essence of anything. Beign a 'total slave' as yuo put it would mean that yuo speak in ONLY 3rd person if that; you would have to refer to yourself in the 'it' sence as a few on here do, you would ALSO have to have NO sence of worth or be allowed to make ANY decision. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m28.gif[/image] Well this sounds pretty drastic - can one be a half a slave?? Maybe even a quarter of a slave - might cut out the 3rd person bit and some of the other stuff., maybe by going to a quarter of a slave i could still be a slave and get some of my worth back...... hmmmmmm... something to think about lol.

mistoferin -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 1:43:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL Beign a 'total slave' as yuo put it would mean that yuo speak in ONLY 3rd person if that; you would have to refer to yourself in the 'it' sence as a few on here do, you would ALSO have to have NO sence of worth or be allowed to make ANY decision. luci, I'm a bit confused here about where this came from as I can't seem to find it on this thread in an original post, only tacked on to the bottom of your response to the post I made. It kind of looks as though I said it, but I didn't. Am I just blind and can't find where it originated?

susie -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 2:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Your disdain for submissves is palpable in your above statement. A submissive isn't a "junior partner" while the slave is VP. A submissive can be a VP, she just works for a different company and could not be a VP in your company. Why would you assume only slaves work to earn their title? A sub isn't a lesser status than slave, they are two seperate dynamics and you cannot gauge the amount of "work to earn" just based on a title - that is akin to saying my way is better than your way. How you can read a LOT into something that is not there; plesae go back and READ what was said in context; I said that calling a slave a submisisve is like calling a VP a junior partner, its disrespectfull. I don't have a problem with submisives; I just draw a line at what a submissive is and what a slave is. After all the research I have done, I better know the difference. I know plenty of submissives who have earned their title of 'submissive.' What I meant was, some people just pick a word, ie 'slave' or 'submissive' and say 'ok thats my title now.' They got it out ofd thin air, then did NOTHING to earn it, they just grabbed it. So it has no real 'meaning' for lack of a better term. Anything can say they are a slave or a submissive or a master or a dominant, but, they are JUST words until they have the experience and/knowledge to back them up and actually 'posess' that title. {i hope that made sence} Actually I read into it the same thing that velvetears did but at the time I read it I was too busy to respond. Your meaning in your original post is quite clear. It is very clear from the various postings on these fora that there is no one universal definition of any of these titles. I can call myself what I want but at the end of the day the only thing that is important to me is what my Master wishes to call me. As you said anyone can call themselves anything they like. Perhaps you could give us all an insight into the training and experience you have which has enabled you to earn the title of slave.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 2:45:06 PM)
It's a matter of protocals and protocal levels that have been established. This varies from relationship to relationship, along with trendy views on what protocals should or should not be. I hope I'm reading the Opening Post correctly here. If so, we're talking about a wide range of things from body positions, speech control, and ritualized behaviors where a sub/slave statue is lowered, even more so at higher protocal levels. In short, all this done is to reinforce the D/s aspects of the relationship. Maintain level of control, respect and many other fun things.. All depends upon what is done in a given relationship. Some people use a shit load of protocals others simply do not. Actually from reading the opening post, I believe you are looking for feedback from other submissives/slaves as to why the desired to be lowered in such a manner. LOL... I currently don't have a situation with this. However, I enjoy it most during scene play. In terms of outside the bedroom, I've grown to be rather indifferent about it. Perhaps I'm a miserable Dom, but after a couple years a lot of the high level protocal stuff tends to slowly diminish. Not all of it, just some of it. It's not as frequent as it was in beginning. Perhaps this simply is an indicator that I'm a rotten Dom for not constantly enforcing it throughout the entire time span of the relationship. All opinions, comments, views, pitch forks and judgements welcomed from the community. If anybody feels I'm in grave error, dish it out now or forever hold your peace.

slaveluci -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 2:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL Beign a 'total slave' as yuo put it would mean that yuo speak in ONLY 3rd person if that; you would have to refer to yourself in the 'it' sence as a few on here do, you would ALSO have to have NO sence of worth or be allowed to make ANY decision. luci, I'm a bit confused here about where this came from as I can't seem to find it on this thread in an original post, only tacked on to the bottom of your response to the post I made. It kind of looks as though I said it, but I didn't. Am I just blind and can't find where it originated? Sorry for the confusion, Erin. It was a quote from her on the other site I mentioned.......luci

mistoferin -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 3:03:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL Beign a 'total slave' as yuo put it would mean that yuo speak in ONLY 3rd person if that; you would have to refer to yourself in the 'it' sence as a few on here do, you would ALSO have to have NO sence of worth or be allowed to make ANY decision. luci, I'm a bit confused here about where this came from as I can't seem to find it on this thread in an original post, only tacked on to the bottom of your response to the post I made. It kind of looks as though I said it, but I didn't. Am I just blind and can't find where it originated? Sorry for the confusion, Erin. It was a quote from her on the other site I mentioned.......luci Ah ok...thanks for clarifying. [:)]

mistoferin -> RE: My place, or yours? (6/7/2007 3:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: susie Perhaps you could give us all an insight into the training and experience you have which has enabled you to earn the title of slave. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that answer....I am thinking we are not going to get questions related to that "training" answered.

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