RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of .....

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (Full Version)

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SadisticMan -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 10:32:05 AM)
[/quote] So when my worst enemy walks across the stage to get his diploma, I can get some friends to cheer for him and blow a few air horns....therefore he can't get his diploma. See....this policy just won't work. Sorry. Manners are not supposed to be taught in public schools. That's a parenting thing. [/quote] No, manners are taught by the society and community also. And finding a way to screw others using laws is another fault. Here in America a few do make the laws for many, why, because we let it happen. Go and vote these people out of office or any elected offical who lends an ear to groups/people you don't like. Ohio may loose many liberties thanks to the Cincinati Family Values Group, another example of silly little rules taking over ours lives. I think polite clapping is ok for graduation, air horns are a bit over the top. It is a commencement cermony after all, an offical type of thing, where were these people brought up at? The last lesson of High School, how to act in a social, offical ceremony. What about the kids who aren't popular and don't have the loudest family in town, some get no applause at all, but Ms pretty girl, who has been the school slut for 4 years gets 5 minutes of applause, screaming, horns and all. Hold the hollering until the end, just clap for 3 seconds for EVERY kid who made it.

Level -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 10:34:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Level "About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party." Violating that taught their kids that giving your word doesn't mean anything. Any such "CONTRACT" is illegal on it's face, as there is no EXCHANGE of value. It's a tool to extort something from the lesser party, ( "promises of 'proper' behavior" ), and therefore clear evidence of BAD FAITH on the party of the school. There is an exchange of value: party A gets an orderly ceremony, party B gets the diploma. Even if that isn't correct, it doesn't change what I said; it teaches those kids it's okay to break your word. I bet the NAZIS and COMMIES only cheered when cued. Kinda overdoing it with that one..... I'll take freedom and liberty, thanks. Me too. But that doesn't mean people get to do whatever they want, whenever they want. If it's too loud, you're too old. I'm getting older by the day, for sure. [:D]

SadisticMan -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 10:41:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood The other solution would be to just NOT go through the reading of the names - that's not uncommon, particularly with schools with very large graduating classes. So the questions is, can people behave themselves enough to get through the ceremony and hear their grad's names, or do you skip that altogether? Not an easy answer. I've done a couple of formal college ceremonies the last couple years, including my own graduation. Some people "get it" when it comes to formal ceremonies - some people don't. It's not a bbq at a trailer park, and you shouldn't attend one attired and behaving as if it were. Between runaway kids that cleared out all of the expensive hors d'oeuvres in 5 minutes by taking plates full of them to people showing up in tshirts and flip flops to just overall poor manners, it's clear that the lines between formal and casual are not clear to a lot of folks. Sometimes you just have to spell it out for them, and be a hardass about the consequences. I'm not sure that withholding diplomas is the answer but you have to do something. right on, the punishment is rather harsh, but so is the behavior. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it is a formal event and people should act like they have some sense. Give your kid a another new car and quiet down. My thought is, do these kids get their diploma mailed out quickly or is it a big ordeal afterwards to get them? I can't see how they could possibly withhold them forever.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:09:31 AM)
quote: My thought is, do these kids get their diploma mailed out quickly or is it a big ordeal afterwards to get them? I can't see how they could possibly withhold them forever. If you're asking about those in the original story, it indicated they needed to do 8 hours of community service to get their diploma as punishment.

selfbnd411 -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:15:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level There is an exchange of value: party A gets an orderly ceremony, party B gets the diploma. That would be true if the school was "giving" people a diploma. They are not; the school acts as an agent for the citizens of the local school district. They aren't "giving" anyone anything--they're simply deciding who qualifies for a piece of paper that was paid for by local residents. That said, nobody really cares about a high school diploma. I walked for my high school graduation because I was young and did what I was told. I did not walk for my BA or MA, and I won't be walking for my PhD when I get it in about 2 years. Nobody should have a party when they graduate; they should have a party when they get a good job! Edit to add: One thing nobody mentioned is that there were 5 individuals denied diplomas--all minorities. Gotta wonder about that. I speak from personal experience. My high school had a "Zero Tolerance" policy when it came to weapons on campus--get caught with a weapon, you get expelled. No ifs, ands, or buts. Two weeks before graduation, the star soccer player, a white male, gets caught with a shotgun in his car which was parked on campus. Was he expelled? No--he was back a week later. Was he denied his diploma or the right to walk in the ceremony? No, not at all. I guarantee you if he had been a black or hispanic, he'd have been in jail so fast it would make your head spin!

Level -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:34:13 AM)
"In Galesburg, the issue has taken on added controversy with accusations that the students were targeted because of their race: four are black and one is Hispanic. Parents say cheers also erupted for white students, and none of them was denied a diploma. "Principal Tom Chiles said administrators who monitored the more than 2,000-seat auditorium reported only disruptions they considered "significant," and all turned in the same five names." It appears that the "guilty" parties stuck out like a sore thumb, and not because of their ethinicity (sp?). But yeah, if it was racial, then that would be disgusting.

selfbnd411 -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:47:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level "Principal Tom Chiles said administrators who monitored the more than 2,000-seat auditorium reported only disruptions they considered "significant," and all turned in the same five names." It appears that the "guilty" parties stuck out like a sore thumb, and not because of their ethinicity (sp?). But yeah, if it was racial, then that would be disgusting. Yep, read that. That's a whole other can of worms--if you're a black parent and your child is denied a diploma because you cheered "We love you hon!" and the white parent next to you was allowed to cheer "We're so proud!" you're going to suspect something's up. Probably nothing overt, but everyone needs to understand that humans are genetically predisposed to discriminate based on appearances. There's a gillion studies that have shown that most people, when show random photographs, tend to identify darker colors as "bad" and lighters colors as "good." These people are not racists, but they do need to understand that sometimes the difference between a "significant" disruption and an "insignificant" disruption could be a subtle, unconscious, instinctual act of discrimination. At any rate, it merely highlights the lunacy of attempting to distinguish between "significant" and "insignificant" disruptions. It's no different from saying that if you say 100 Hail Marys, you get into heaven, but if you say 99 Hail Marys, you go to hell.

farglebargle -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 12:08:14 PM)
Yup. Let's see the PRINTED STANDARD for "Significant", training programs to certify people in the enforcement of those standards, and then certifications of the administrators who had nothing better to do than stand around and "monitor" the behavior of people. Heh. Looks like a great case for "Arbitrary" can easily be made. NOW, Taxpayers, ENJOY PAYING FOR THE DEFENSE IN THIS SUIT!!! HAHAHAHAHA! What is this asshattery of these little Commie Wannabees going to cost the Taxpayers???

Zensee -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 2:01:54 PM)
Fargle, I admire your dogged deference to an idealised concept of personal freedom but you seem to forget that the other side of liberty is responsibility, for yourself and for your interactions with others. We live in societies, we aren't solitary beings. The context in which modern "rights and freedoms" are expressed is social, not private. When people gather in public for public purposes there must be consideration for what is best for all and what will allow the common purpose to be achieved with fairness and decorum. Manners are not a luxury for humans, they are a necessity. Liberty is not expressed by disrupting a public event like a graduation, that's just vulgarity. It is actually an imposition on the liberty of the majority of folks hoping to hold a respectful ceremony. Z.

farglebargle -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 2:08:05 PM)
quote: Fargle, I admire your dogged deference to an idealised concept of personal freedom but you seem to forget that the other side of liberty is responsibility, for yourself and for your interactions with others. I doubt that. I just think this is a case where people have a RIGHT to support their kin. A RIGHT to FREE SPEECH. and a RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE PEACEABLY. You cannot possibly allege that this support of family in ANY WAY rose to the level of a Breach of The Peace? Or constituted an unsafe situation for ANYONE, can you? quote: Liberty is not expressed by disrupting a public event like a graduation, Oh, so cheering out of turn, which only INCONVENIENCED THE ADMINISTRATION is equal to "Disrupting a Public Event", now? Sounds like the way the Commies would spin things. Why would you believe that the Administration in any represented the Will of The People? Just cause they said so?

Zensee -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 2:26:30 PM)
Is everyone who disagrees with you a commie? I'd like to think I could discuss things without wearing your labels. The cheering did not just inconvenience the administration it disrupted the event and had done so in the past such that is was deemed necessary to ask for more decorus behaviour. Parents and children were informed of the nature of the event and the conduct that would be expected of those who attended. There was plenty of opportunity to protest the terms of attending the ceremony. Those who signed the agreement and walked through the door had expressed their WILL to participate in a decorus event. Why does cheering and disruptive behaviour deserve protection under "free expression" but quiet enjoyment does not? Why does rudeness trump politeness? It doesn't. You are sidestepping the practicalities - people in groups, trying to achieve a common end, operate under rules and agreements. It's all part of growing up and being human. Z.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 4:22:51 PM)
This is not a liberal or conservative circumstance. It is about manners. The same as dressing appropriately and what have you. I recently attended a graduation and the audience was told no applause, etc. because it detracted from the dignity of the event. It is an important social event for the students and families with courtesies expected. Cheering overlaps the names of the ones coming after and that is rude. This particular graduation went beautifully and there was prolonged applause after all had walked. Admittedly, with high school kids it may be harder to get them to follow the courtesies, but a stern speaker can work wonders and make the event something all will remember fondly.

KatyLied -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 5:40:05 PM)
I will do as the other parents do. When my eldest graduated from public school, they allowed time after each kid received the diploma for cheering and clapping, it didn't take away from the ceremony. My younger son is graduating from an alternative (tech) school, so I've no clue as to how formal anything will be. But I will be happy and smiling, regardless of protocol.

LadyAnnabelleLee -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 6:03:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain This is not a liberal or conservative circumstance. It is about manners. Thankfully enough it's easy to get the gist of the event from the sides taken on this stance. My only confusion is what Karl Marx has to do with any of this... [8\|]

heroic -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 6:45:11 PM)
they were warned and there is a time and a place for everything.

farglebargle -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 10:50:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee Is everyone who disagrees with you a commie? I'd like to think I could discuss things without wearing your labels. The range of political freedom goes from the Anarchist ( Min Governmental Controls ) on one extreme, to the Communist ( Max Government Controls ). Since the regulation of people's right to speak their peace is an example of a situation where there is a maximum of Government Control, it's appropriate to label it on that end of the spectrum. When some little pissant school administrator presumes to tell ANY FREE PERSON what they may say, and how they may say it, excepting those acts clearly within breach of the peace is abhorrent to me. Commie is as Commie does. quote: The cheering did not just inconvenience the administration it disrupted the event and had done so in the past such that is was deemed necessary to ask for more decorus behaviour. Parents and children were informed of the nature of the event and the conduct that would be expected of those who attended. There was plenty of opportunity to protest the terms of attending the ceremony. Those who signed the agreement and walked through the door had expressed their WILL to participate in a decorus event. Fuck the Commie Wannabes, and they can shove those "agreements" up their asses until the bleed to death. quote: Why does cheering and disruptive behaviour deserve protection under "free expression" but quiet enjoyment does not? Why does rudeness trump politeness? It doesn't. When does politeness trump rudeness? It doesn't. Seems' we got ourselves a logical paradox. Why not err on the side of Personal Freedom and Liberty, rather than Totalitarian Control. You know, during the Nuremberg Rallys I'm SURE no-one cheered off cue. I'll take people acting like people, thanks. quote: You are sidestepping the practicalities - people in groups, trying to achieve a common end, operate under rules and agreements. It's all part of growing up and being human. When some little martinet decides it's his way, or no diploma, the martinet needs tar and feathering to teach him some humility.

farglebargle -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 10:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heroic they were warned and there is a time and a place for everything. The warnings of an unelected little school administrator? Who the hell cares what that idiot WANTS. Unless it rises to a clear case of Breach of The Peace, ( Which there are duly authorized LAWS against ) then it's not the admin's fucking job to tell Free People how to behave. Now, if you're SERIOUS about "The Will of The People" , then pass a fucking Law against it. Like they do in Free, Democratic Countries, not Third-World Banana Republics or behind the Iron Curtain.

subbecky -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:04:24 PM)
I don't know which makes me more mad. The penelizing of these poor kids by their idiot families or the jerks that think it's ok for kids to be hurt for the sake of a "captialist" society. Their has to be something in the middle.

rook42 -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/3/2007 11:29:02 PM)
Hum. Seems a bit silly to worry about something like this. A) Our public education system is hardly a sacrosanct bastion of accomplishment and tradition. Save the sense of accomplishment for med school. I've seen some pretty excitable cheering there, and they have a heck of a lot more right to formality. A guy can't make it through a med program drunk, stupid, and chasing tail. Note: If they can, they deserve even more respect. :P B) Who are you congratulating? If the kids wanna have fun, then let them. An administrator's whims mean nothing compared to the desires of the graduates and their guests. On the other side of things... Commies? Nuremburg Rally? A teensy bit extreme? Why not just point out that most high school administrators are essentially politicians with small penises? Everyone's seen that nasty little man(or woman) that seems to be in education for the "power"- as lacking as it is.

Vendaval -> RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under penaly of ..... (6/4/2007 1:40:20 AM)
If the school officials want a better behaved audience this is not the way to do it. The graduating students should not be penalized for the behavior of people in the crowd, they cannot control that! Either go with a sound system or just avoid announcing the individual names and have security guards escort people out if they do become agressive and start fights.

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