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RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 9:01:16 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

If the school officials want a better behaved audience this is not the way to do it. The graduating students should not
be penalized for the behavior of people in the crowd, they cannot control that!

Either go with a sound system or just avoid announcing the individual names and have security guards escort people
out if they do become agressive and start fights.

Interesting hypothesis. DID the administration go "Fast and Cheap" and underspec, or even neglect proper Public Address and Sound Reinforcement needs?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 41

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 10:25:09 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

BTW- last yr there was gun fire at an LA graduation,.,,,,

anyhow-
my late dad and gram was at my college graduation. it truly was a happy day.

my dad taught me so much. he was the perfect dad. i miss him.

one of his lessons- an educated person can express themself w/o profanity.

he also said an education is something that cant be stolen, repossessed- etc.

whenever I run into a snafu- when i start talking and they see this guy has a brain. suddenly the converstaion takes on a new tone.

Oh- one of his sayings was you may loose the fight -but get a good punch in!! hehe

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 42

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 8:13:23 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When some little pissant school administrator presumes to tell ANY FREE PERSON what they may say, and how they may say it, excepting those acts clearly within breach of the peace is abhorrent to me.

Commie is as Commie does.

When is it a breach of the peace then? When it comes to blows? When you say so?

When some boor decides that his "free expression" is more important than someone else's desire for dedcorum, who is being the asshole? The majority had agreed to decorum - a loud minority disrupted that decorum. Who is interfering with the will of the majority? Who is controlling the masses? The loudmouthed asshole is. Why is that OK but asking for calm and formality an imposition?

Not all authorities in a society have an elected mandate. Some are selected by elected officials and administer things like schools according to regulations. Orderly conduct is expected in schools from kindergarten on - parents included. You don't need an election to establish that or to establish the obligation of an administrator to enforce it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Fuck the Commie Wannabes, and they can shove those "agreements" up their asses until the bleed to death.

You can do better than that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When does politeness trump rudeness?

It doesn't.

Seems' we got ourselves a logical paradox. Why not err on the side of Personal Freedom and Liberty, rather than Totalitarian Control.

It's not a paradox it's a complexity. And the choices aren't as simple or extreme as you typify them - it's not a choice between Liberty and Totalitarianism - that's plain absurd. Liberty is not just the freedom to swing your arms, it's the responsibility to be aware where your fists are likely to end up.

Let me know next time you go to the movies. I'll sit behind you and exercise my Freedom Of Expression.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I'll take people acting like people, thanks.

That's meaningless.

I'll take people showing some consideration for others, myself.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 43

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 10:14:36 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When some little pissant school administrator presumes to tell ANY FREE PERSON what they may say, and how they may say it, excepting those acts clearly within breach of the peace is abhorrent to me.

Commie is as Commie does.

When is it a breach of the peace then? When it comes to blows? When you say so?

When THE LAW says so. Not some little piece of shit administrator.

THE LAW is the ONLY THING any Free Person has to pay attention to, and then only to know what penalty their acts may incur if caught.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 44

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 10:40:22 PM

fadedlace

Posts: 137
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Louisiana
Status: offline

I graduated in 1974, when there was applause, and parties afterward and screaming AFTER the ceremony. Parents and grandparents could actually HEAR their loved ones' names being called up to the podium to receive their diplomas.

The last graduation ceremonies I've been to since the early 90's were so loud and obnoxious that only the very first student's name could even be heard over the hooting and screaming.

I don't see it as being a proud parent. I see it as being unable to control oneself so that others can also enjoy their loved ones' special day.

I do NOT respect these loudmouths' right to ruin the night for everyone, and they sure don't respect my right or anyone else's.

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 45

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/4/2007 11:31:01 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

When THE LAW says so. Not some little piece of shit administrator.

THE LAW is the ONLY THING any Free Person has to pay attention to, and then only to know what penalty their acts may incur if caught.

Oops. My bad. I presumed that in the USA, Schools were established, maintained and operated in accordance with written laws made by elected officials.

I guess in Canada things may be different. Some samples from our provincial act:

quote:

Duties of students
6 (1) A student must comply
(a) with the school rules authorized by the principal of the school or Provincial school attended by the student, and
(b) with the code of conduct and other rules and policies of the board or the Provincial school.

Power and capacity
85 (1) For the purposes of carrying out its powers, functions and duties under this Act and
the regulations, a board has the power and capacity of a natural person of full capacity.
(2) Without limiting subsection (1), a board may, subject to this Act and the regulations,
do all or any of the following:
(a) determine local policy for the effective and efficient operation of schools in the
school district;
(b) subject to the orders of the minister, approve educational resource materials and
other supplies and services for use by students;
(c) make rules
(i) establishing a code of conduct for students attending educational programs operated by or on behalf of the board,

The staff are also bound by codes of conduct so, at minimum, parents must also be bound to the expectations of orderly conduct imposed on the staff and students, by LAW. By entering the school you have agreed to abide by the laws, regulations and yes, even the rules established by the lawful authority in charge of the lawful conduct of the business of the school (assuming such laws exist).

That said, withholding the diplomas is an inappropriate response.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to fadedlace)

Post #: 46

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/5/2007 5:56:43 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

Using quick reply:

I'd agree that the school admin was way off base. They punished students for the behavior of people that the students had no authority or ability to control. While the diploma is not a big deal, I would sue anyway. The student walking across the stage was not violating the contract, and should of been given the diploma.

This has nothing to do with manners, how exactly was the student supposed to control the behavior of audience members when they were walking across the stage? or heck even if they were not..how were they to control the actions of other people?

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 47

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/5/2007 6:06:21 AM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

I see the opinions here are all about " I'll cheer for my child if I want to" but, apprently none of you managed to read the entire article. No one was told they couldn't cheer, they were told to wait until the end because the previous graduations had been a nightmare with people carrying on with air horns and screaming so long and loud that OTHER students' parents could not even hear their own child's name. There are places to scream and places to act with a little decorum and dignity. It's a formal ceremony, and what Americans HAVE lost is the ability to recognize what formality is. It's a matter of manners and class. I realize this is a sad situation when a school has to resort to this to get their point across, but EVERYONE was told IN ADVANCE. If they chose to violate the standards...then they have to be willing to accept the consequences. I am all about pride in accomplishments, but hoot and holler when and where it's appropriate. Have a huge party after the fact and scream to your heart's content, but don't make a formal ceremony into a Saturday night wrestling match with each set of well-wishers trying to outdo the others. Pride doesn't have to be obnoxious.

This is all very sensible and an excellent point. But to punish the student for what someone else did is wrong.
If this is a school rule, it should be clearly posted on the grounds when people enter the ceremony and it should be enforceable, by having staff there to control the crowd or escort them off the premises if they do not follow the rules. If a school wants to implement a rule, they have to be the ones prepared to enforce it; not the student.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 48

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/5/2007 8:23:45 PM

minnetar

Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06/01/graduation.decorum.ap/index.html

"Gayles was one of five students denied diplomas from the lone public high school in Galesburg after enthusiastic friends or family members cheered for them during commencement."

lmao i was afraid you were going to mention Jack Trudea's graduation party at his house allowing underage kids to drink alcohol in Zionsville.

minnetar

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 49

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 2:36:48 AM

swtnsparkling

Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Level,
Problem is that too many "parents" don't know squat about manners, much less teach them, anymore.

My god this is soooooo true!!
I see it every day and those "parents" don't know squat about manners -don't seem to know squat about teaching a good work eithic or responsablity.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace

A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 50

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 6:38:21 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

Using quick reply:

I'd agree that the school admin was way off base. They punished students for the behavior of people that the students had no authority or ability to control. While the diploma is not a big deal, I would sue anyway. The student walking across the stage was not violating the contract, and should of been given the diploma.

This has nothing to do with manners, how exactly was the student supposed to control the behavior of audience members when they were walking across the stage? or heck even if they were not..how were they to control the actions of other people?

From the article:

"About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party."

This is where I lose sympathy for the situation the students/families are in.

The parents themselves - not just the students - signed a contract promising to behave themselves and what the consequences would be if they did not. Most graduates don't get a ton of tickets for graduation - we had 4 each this year - so those coming to see the graduate are aware of the policy. They were probably also reminded of the policy to keep it down at the ceremony (speculation, yes, but a reasonable one). The families chose to go against what they signed and were told and behave inappropriately anyway.

So if anything - it's not the school doing this to the students, it's the families by their inability to behave in an appropriate manner. Lawsuit against the school because the families violated an agreement they made with the school? I don't think so.

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 51

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 6:55:25 AM

CrimsonMoan

Posts: 2652
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Portland, Me via Las Vegas Nv
Status: offline

Ok first of fI just have to say i am glad i graduated in Las Vegas. Why you might ask? Because we never had stupid rules liek this imposed and 2 because all H.S graduations were held in the Thomas and Mack sports Center. Everyone could be as loud as possible. As for denying these kids there diploma. I whole heartedly oppose this because one if they have made it this far, no one and I mean no has the right to say oh wait nevermind your family was too loud you don't get this thing you worked your butt off for 4 years four.

I'm sorry but the whole affair is very emotional one. If you're a minority more so because you proved you were just another lost cause or statistic. My mother died right before midterms my senior year. My grades slipped badly and I almost didn't pass for the fact that having both parents dead was getting me. I eventually got it together and graduated. I would have to say my friends and family were some of the loudest there. Well next to the F&F of any of the girls in my class that had a baby that year.

Point is this shit was wrong to do, no other way to look at it. they want parents to hear their kids names? Buy a damn decent speaker system.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

Post #: 52

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 7:04:10 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party."

Violating that taught their kids that giving your word doesn't mean anything.

Any such "CONTRACT" is illegal on it's face, as there is no EXCHANGE of value. It's a tool to extort something from the lesser party, ( "promises of 'proper' behavior" ), and therefore clear evidence of BAD FAITH on the party of the school.

I bet the NAZIS and COMMIES only cheered when cued.

I'll take freedom and liberty, thanks.

If it's too loud, you're too old.

I swear, the more I hear you talk the more you sound just like McCarthy and the less I think you have anything useful to say.

When Valyraen graduated from college a bunch of people thought it would be awesome to bring pots and pans and bang them together when their friends' names were called. It was a pain in the ass. I hated having to listen to it considering his class was rather large and ceramony was very lengthy anyway, it would have driven me nuts to wait for it to die down.

Frankly, I'm a big fan of "Will the graduating class rise, now you are graduated" ceramonies that avoid the entire issue of calling names out. I like individual reconignation of achievements, but I dislike inconsiderate fools more.

I also don't like waiting in a chair for three hours.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/6/2007 7:25:03 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 53

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 7:06:26 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Fargle, I admire your dogged deference to an idealised concept of personal freedom but you seem to forget that the other side of liberty is responsibility, for yourself and for your interactions with others.

I doubt that. I just think this is a case where people have a RIGHT to support their kin. A RIGHT to FREE SPEECH. and a RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE PEACEABLY.

You cannot possibly allege that this support of family in ANY WAY rose to the level of a Breach of The Peace? Or constituted an unsafe situation for ANYONE, can you?

quote:

Liberty is not expressed by disrupting a public event like a graduation,

Oh, so cheering out of turn, which only INCONVENIENCED THE ADMINISTRATION is equal to "Disrupting a Public Event", now?

Sounds like the way the Commies would spin things.

Why would you believe that the Administration in any represented the Will of The People?

Just cause they said so?

You also have a right to control your own events.

Graduations are not usually public attendence. There are tickets that are handed out and only people with tickets can come. This is a school event that the school gets to control. If you don't like it, then you have the freedom to attend a different school.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 54

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 7:08:32 AM

kitriana

Posts: 62
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline

Man.. when I first read the headline I thought this was about MY former high school in Texas. They had so many freakin rules to graduate.. it was ridiculous to the point where if my parents didn't drive me to the ceremony I would have just told them to mail me my diploma. I have a very big, noisy family, and there were fliers and stuff everywhere about how you weren't supposed to cheer so everyone could hear everyone's name called, and anyone using an airhorn would get arrested, and if you didn't have appropriate clothes or shoes on under your cap and gown you wouldn't get your diploma and so on.. everyone's families and friends cheered anyhow, and know what? They waited to read the next name until it stopped. Our class had 363 people in it, and it took 2 hours.. and they wouldn't let you leave after you got your diploma.. (there were cops at the exits.. i felt like i was in prison, just like all 3 years i spent at that school)..

anyhow.. I don't think they can keep someone from having their diploma over something so stupid, since its something based on academics, and academically its something the person graduating has presumably earned. I would think it could easily be taken to court, since most things are these days.

(in reply to CrimsonMoan)

Post #: 55

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 7:11:01 AM

kitriana

Posts: 62
Joined: 5/29/2005
Status: offline

In Texas, or at least where we lived, they didn't have tickets.. they were pretty open. If you wanted to go to a certain school's graduation you could, but their rules still applied, whether you knew them or not. I don't know where you went to school.. but we didn't have much freedom to pick our schools due to over crowding and distance.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 56

RE: You will NOT CHEER THE GRADUATING STUDENTS!! Under ... - 6/6/2007 7:16:18 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitriana

In Texas, or at least where we lived, they didn't have tickets.. they were pretty open. If you wanted to go to a certain school's graduation you could, but their rules still applied, whether you knew them or not. I don't know where you went to school.. but we didn't have much freedom to pick our schools due to over crowding and distance.

All the graduations I've been to had tickets, in WV, VA, and NC. Either way, I think a school has the right to control their own events.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kitriana)

Post #: 57

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