RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (Full Version)

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stockingluvr54 -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 11:39:03 AM)

Good thread! Have to agree with most.

Personally speaking...you'll get much more out of me with the polite approach than by barking orders. I have a natural rebellious nature and will usually rebel if not treated with respect? She would show more power in my eyes with a softer polite approach.

Also believe there may be a place for a louder, less respectful tone too but as long as the respect is exchanged and understood by both as far as the relationship in general goes.... then it's all good. jmo....



thetammyjo -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 12:17:33 PM)

About half the time I use a "would you" phrase when I tell Fox to do something. He knows that it does not mean that he really has a choice but it sounds more polite to me and I think gets a sense of being a good person when he then does as I said. It feels more natural to both of us.

However I do not use polite terms all the time. The other half of the time it's "Fox do X" or Do Y, Fox".

Since this is always how I am if I rarely add a nasty word or two into my commands that shocks the heck out of Fox. He'll come to obey the command but he'll also either look at me careful or ask "What happened?" because when I get less polite it is a sure sign that I am pissed at something or someone. Very very very rarely it that someone him.

I would not be surprised if my simple direct command is a bit more exciting for Fox than the polite ones. If I think about it I realize that I'm far more likely to be direct in terms of sex or kink specific matters than for instance household chores. That might reflect the fact that while my slave is going to set the table for dinner or help me make it, it really seems like a chore to me too so the politeness comes in to make it a bit less chorelike for both of us.

Maybe?

I always give positive feedback for a good job -- be it mundane or kinky or sex.



SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 12:55:38 PM)

quote:

So - I'd love to hear from both Dommes and subs/slaves alike  -  have you ever done this yourself  - or not ?   What are your feelings regarding the delivery of verbal commands  ?

 
I say please and thank you, because it's simply the way I was raised. I have a tendancy to be a bit more formal than most people are accustomed to as well. (I'm a military offspring and there were certain expectations of behavior being the child of a high ranking military officer.) I don't feel that being polite mitigates the expectation of compliance.
 
In the end, regardless of how the command is requested, it's no less of a command. I expect whatever I've asked to be done immediately and without question. My use of the words please or thank you do not lessen that level of expectation in any way. I tend to be rather soft spoken normally and it would be rare that I raise my voice or shout. I find that I get quieter as my displeasure rises. I've rarely had anyone see "the look", or a raised eyebrow, or hear a very distinct edge within my voice and mistake it for anything but a sign of displeasure.
 
I think because I'm rather polite on a day to day basis the rare moments when I say something tersely it tends to be a bit of a shock. My usual level of politeness also doesn't mean I'm not perfectly capable of whispering the most obscene string of profanities in someones ear as well.



LadyPact -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 12:59:32 PM)

I think all forms of manners, such as saying please and thank you, are really forms of habit.  Regardless of role, We are raised to be polite to other people, and that carries over after being conditioned to be polite to others. 
 
Being a Domme doesn't excuse Me from having manners.  To Me, it's one of the signs of being a Dominant, rather than just domineering.  I put it in the same catagory of raising My voice to get attention.  Just because I'm saying please or thank you or keeping My voice at a regular tone, doesn't make it more of a request and less of a command.  It just shows that My boy is willingly obediant.



needDomme -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 1:14:57 PM)

In my humble opinion, it matters not how Mistress conveys her desire.  Be it gently, softly and politely or not, i know i am to perform it.  Even if i had a choice, would i be worthy of the title "slave" if i didn't always put her pleasure above everything else?

i'll admit there are times when politeness will be appreciated more, and also times when a curt command will arouse me to no end.

Like i said, IMO.

need



KaramelGoddess -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 1:31:19 PM)

Good day all,
 
I agree with most of the posters here.  Being a Domina doesn't excuse one from being polite.
I will use please and thank you with My boy while we are just chilling out and talking, but during a scene I may leave those off or use them.  If I have to repeat a command I am not polite about it - but the boy loves My mean, evil and nasty voice anyway...
 
~Kara



Lashra -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 1:49:12 PM)

I always use manners and I do not think that they ever go out of style. I have heard some dominants say that it makes the command, "less commanding" and I've heard some subs say they find it odd. I had to retrain my sub from when he was a Master. He was mentored to use no manners with his sub. He barked an order and expected her to take off like a lightening bolt. That is not my style and so I've shown him that authority with a smidge of politeness can go a long way.

~Lashra



SweetDommes -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 2:13:36 PM)

In the past, when we have come across those who think that we are less than dominant because we say "please" and "thank you" ... Holly's response has always been "'please' is just a polite way of saying 'now'"



hereyesruponyou -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 3:00:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

In the past, when we have come across those who think that we are less than dominant because we say "please" and "thank you" ... Holly's response has always been "'please' is just a polite way of saying 'now'"


Great phrasing there! I think once you are in an established relationship it is easier. I have had to be somewhat blunt when first getting to know someone, especially online. If i ask you to send me an email, or answer some questions and you agree to do it, I expect it to be done as soon as possible. Just because it is phrased as a question, it is no less of a command. Many times this is a test to see if you are listening or even really care. A good response will lead to a quicker meeting and real time play.

I can't say i have ever had a time when manners were a problem. I am one of those people who the more angry i get the calmer my voice gets and the more polite i become. I find it drives the hate mongers nuts....which makes me smile (they hate that too)



Laura -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 4:17:02 PM)

I think it's more about your tone of voice and the feeling behind it than the actual words used. As far as please and thank you, that does seem polished and more in command in a way. As you have made your own choice and went with what feels right to you rather than wimping out to what you think your sub wants.

Some words do add to the situation. You can always go with "thank you, slut." Said in a well mannered way.



amayos -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands? (6/4/2007 7:25:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tornaway

I am a considerate , and well mannered human , and I prefer me that way. That said , certainly not always - but sometimes, I find myself adding a 'please" or "thank you" to a command , and subsequent compliance , of a sub . After mulling it over, it seems those niceties are out of place in the D/s arena from a Dominant point of view, and somehow will dilute the impact of what I feel should be a command, not a request. Though I'll say I've never had a problem with getting immediate response from a sub, regardless of the words chosen as I've been told the changing tone of my voice carries much impact .

So, I'd love to hear from both Dommes and subs/slaves alike: have you ever done this yourself—or not ? What are your feelings regarding the delivery of verbal commands? And what might it be like to be on the receiving end of a "sugar coated" command ? Is it then, any less compelling or perhaps more so, depending on context ?


Being a considerate, well-mannered human is a noble pursuit for all. Nobility is in fact a cornerstone of good dominance. That said, I have always felt the nature of dominance and submission transcends much of social convention's masks. One of the many pleasures inherent in having a slave is freedom from the tyranny of common propriety to the one you keep; to indulge in the raw exchange of a purposeful imbalance of power, and to make use of, enjoy, and draw gain from that imbalance.

I cannot help but sense a strange serpent slithers in the garden when Masters or Mistresses repeatedly use "please" or any other decorous entreaty to frame what should be clearly and confidently expressed commands. While completely unnecessary, a "thank you" is nice to hear from time to time, if not a little impersonal sounding. I would suggest "good boy" or "good girl" far more. It's certainly more intimate and meaningful to hear than "thank you," that absent and sterile phrase people utter per reflex decorum at drive throughs and corporate meetings. A quiet smile or a pat on the head trumps thank yous, too. Ultimately, both the slave and Keeper should be right in their own minds about the quiet pleasure of the one who rules.

Your mention of context is an important aside, however. Saying "please mind your manners," in a threatening tone feels nothing like a gentle entreaty.



Misstoyou -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 7:39:39 PM)

My standard reply is that if my students are smart enough to know that "Please put away your books" is not a request, but a command (for want of a more precise term at the moment) my submissive darn well better be as smart, or I've done a poor job in selecting.



undergroundsea -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 8:42:42 PM)

I think there should be a category amongst areas of BDSM interest to include language play. I think words and tone have tremendous capacity to create the respective mental spaces. It can be a mentally stimulating play in itself.

Within a D/s dynamic, as long as I know the person to be well mannered and to hold general respect, I do not need to hear thank you or please. With that confidence about the person and dynamic, I find the opposite--the lack of thank you or please--to enhance the D/s space.

When I do not feel a D/s dynamic to exist, I notice the absence of such niceties and find the behavior a turn-off.

Cheers,

Sea



slaveboyforyou -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/4/2007 8:56:49 PM)

I don't find anything less dominant about using manners and polite language in everyday settings.  Having grown up in the South, I always talk to others like that and expect it from others.  I see it as more dominant when a woman or anyone for that matter uses polite language and shows good breeding.  It shows a sense of self control and self respect.  I don't find anything dominant or attractive about a woman that is boorish, rude, and without refinement.  This is not to say that I don't enjoy being directly told what to do or talked down to in different situations.  As with everything, there is a time and a place for that.  But, I think everyone wants to be shown respect and appreciation. 



Celeste43 -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 6:25:14 AM)

Please and thank you are fine. I think however that confusion can come up with how you say something.

For example "Tomorrow is garbage day, would you please make sure it all gets out" is open ended. The sub might feel they only need to get it done before morning. So they might feel they could put it off till after the game they're watching which might annoy you because it wasn't getting done immediately.

Saying "Please take out the garbage now" is much more clear. This way they not only know what needs to be done but also when you want it, which prevents the confusion of a more open ended command.



thetammyjo -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 6:39:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Please and thank you are fine. I think however that confusion can come up with how you say something.

For example "Tomorrow is garbage day, would you please make sure it all gets out" is open ended. The sub might feel they only need to get it done before morning. So they might feel they could put it off till after the game they're watching which might annoy you because it wasn't getting done immediately.

Saying "Please take out the garbage now" is much more clear. This way they not only know what needs to be done but also when you want it, which prevents the confusion of a more open ended command.


Good example.

This demonstrates something we complain about but also sometimes expect.

Your sub or slave cannot read your mind.

If you want something done a certain way by a certain time you need to be clear with that.

If you aren't clear then I believe that the person then responsible for any failure in service is the dominant. I don't play with punishment and displeasure so I don't use my poorly communicated commands as an excuse to blame my slave.



spankmepink11 -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 6:43:36 AM)

Being commanded, and dominated, by one with manners,  is incredibly attractive and inspiring to me.



Archer -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 8:42:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Please and thank you are fine. I think however that confusion can come up with how you say something.

For example "Tomorrow is garbage day, would you please make sure it all gets out" is open ended. The sub might feel they only need to get it done before morning. So they might feel they could put it off till after the game they're watching which might annoy you because it wasn't getting done immediately.

Saying "Please take out the garbage now" is much more clear. This way they not only know what needs to be done but also when you want it, which prevents the confusion of a more open ended command.


In my own universe such a communication failure is on ME If I formulate the message then I am responsible to make sure the meaning gets across as I intend it to. The only anger I would feel is anger at myself for not being clear in my communications. (I expect my slave to be clear in communications and I expect it from myself as well)

In such a case I usually say "I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear I really ment to get this done now." Flat and to the point.




MsKatHouston -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 8:55:22 AM)

Not to get too derailed here from the OP but in addition to ensuring clear communication from the dominant, which I too believe to be essential, one also has to recognize if/when a submissive is being purposely obtuse.  This can also occur when a  sub knows very well what the intention of a particular command is but chooses, purposely, to comply with the strictest words that were uttered.  While the responsibility for more direct communication may very well be with the dominant, I don't let such instances go unmentioned either. 



undergroundsea -> RE: "Manners" incompatible with commands ? (6/5/2007 8:57:17 AM)

I once served at a tea party, where a group of subs went around and served women seated at different tables in a banquet room. At one point, I presented the tray before a woman who was amidst conversation. She briefly looked at the tray while speaking and resumed her conversation. I remained there because I was not sure if she wanted me to wait until she finished a sentence, or if she was not interested. Seeing this, she responded with a no thank you.

To a third party there, ignoring me at first seemed rude whereas to me it did not. I had had a good conversation with her before and saw her as someone socially graceful. So I did not feel a turn-off I might otherwise feel from someone who has poor manners. And I did not find offense to my ego because we had already established rapport and some D/s chemistry. At the time, it felt as a moment that aligned with the respective mental space of each.

So to me, my general perception about the manners and mutual respect is what matters. Being comfortable in that regard allows me to accept and even enjoy moments that alone might not be enjoyable. Instead, I can see these moments as expressions of role, or towards emotional SM.

Cheers,

Sea



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