RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (Full Version)

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slavemaia -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 1:43:20 PM)

Gawd - where do these ideas come from anyway?[quote]Such rigidity has no place in a truly submissive mind or heart. You might say that a sub has to be that way beforehand, to avoid situations, once surrendered, which she couldn't tolerate. Perhaps, but since most of the available subs I meet seem to have a multitude of similar rigidities, I often wonder if that isn't precisely why they remain available.
[/quote]

Oh really? A slave does not become a robot, owned or not. A doormat accepts anything, a slave is not required to accept anything other than what she/he agreed to accept in the beginning. When i was seeking a Master i had my list of what i would/could accept and wouldn't. Until i accepted my Master's collar i was as free as any woman and had every right to my conditions. And to assume that because someone won't accept anything a so-called dominant wants means she's not REALLY a sub or a slave or that's why she's available is a ridiculous attitude.



eveningtwilight -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 1:54:26 PM)

Where is the line drawn in a truely D/s household? I think it depends. I am certainly not in one, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but...

I think it could be considered the same as a "hard limit" for some, yet is welcomed by others.  It may be important to consider that whipping and breast play won't shorten your life-span, but being around smoke will. She may simply value her health and life, even if you don't. There may be medical considerations that make her HAVE to care (like asthma). Another consideration is is the house is shared by people who don't get a voice in the situation. That could make someone take a strong stance too.

I'm not going to profess whether smoking is right or wrong, but we all have limits in various realms and I believe that caring relationships will take those limits into consideration. If your limit is that you want to smoke, and hers is to not be around it...well, that 'hard limit' for your both clashes and maybe you two should accept that you aren't made for each other.




LadyPaige -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 3:23:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Honestly? To a non-smoker you probably smell like an ashtray & if you've ever licked an ashtray you may understand.
Cigarette butts smell.
It turns walls yellow, soaks into clothing/carpet/furniture. It's actually sticky. Teeth go yellow & so do fingernails.  Many are allergic to it.
None of my friends dom, my dom (tho he does not smoke), no one is allowed to smoke cigs in my house. I don't understand why you wouldn't understand this.

Ew. My honest reaction is ew to tasting a smoker.


You forgot to mention the way it looks like urine on the bathroom walls after a steamy shower causes all that residue to drip. 



MagiksSlave -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 4:14:47 PM)

EEEEEWWWWW

Magik's slave



Griswold -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 4:47:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMGD

pasted below is an email i wrote to a sub friend, who takes quite a hard stance against smoking. I am trying to quit, but haven't yet, and after some heated back and forth, during which she made it clear that "NO ONE smoked in her house", I had these thoughts, and now ask the same of you all, wondering I suppose, where the line is drawn, in a truly D/s household?;

quote:

actually R----, what I'm getting at, and something i invariably inspire;
acceptance, tolerance, and unconditional surrender.

one would think, that a submissive, more especially a SLAVE, like you, and so many others, would cultivate such traits, knowing she must, sooner or later.
What would you do if your master, who you'd been collared to for years, and whom you adored and loved, decided to start smoking? Would you dump him? ask to be released? Try to stop him? How would you exert your will? What if it were his house, or even better, you were married, so it belonged to you both legally?

I use smoking as an example, because you have such a hard stance on it. Nobody smokes in our house huh?..."even you my Master"...lol.

Such rigidity has no place in a truly submissive mind or heart. You might say that a sub has to be that way beforehand, to avoid situations, once surrendered, which she couldn't tolerate. Perhaps, but since most of the available subs I meet seem to have a multitude of similar rigidities, I often wonder if that isn't precisely why they remain available.

Sorry R----, subbies mustn't be ball-busters. Or ever plan to be.
If I ever did smoke in your house, it would be only because I knew you wanted me to, because you'd accepted me, unconditionally. because i'd made you so happy, you wanted to do something, anything, to make me feel comfortable, and I'd know you didn't mind, because you said you didn't.

I know you are incredulous at such a postulation, but it has happened to me before. I'm serious. I think what you fail to see is that a man, me, or any man, could ever make you that happy. So happy you didn't care what his kisses smelled like, or his semen tasted like. They'd be trivialities, and hugely overshadowed by any possibility of the alternative~ not having him.

just some things to ponder dear.
Your friend


thoughts?



I think you're looking for someone to tell you your thinking is sequential.

Someone to tell you "Gawdammit man....you not only asked a question...but you posted all your comments...GAWD you write well....you're almost a literary GOD!!!!  (I wish I could be you!)".

Sooooooo....yes, I think you write well.

No I don't think you're uniquely predisposed of some incredible natural logic.

Ultimately I think (by virtue of the basic fact that you asked....as well as the essential fact that you posted this {your} post to give visage to the {online} world that you're just this "incredible mind"....) that you're basically a putz...looking for a bit of your 15 minutes.

(This lasted, by the way...a total of 4 minutes).

(Others, I'm sure...will provide your remaining 11 minutes, some of which will include derision).



Viridana -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 5:19:30 PM)

To the OP

I smoke. However, smoking is a deal breaker for many people and as such it should be respected at all times. By devaluing the sub with questioning her submissiveness just because her hard limits don't fit yours says more about your "domliness" than the sub in question. If you can't respect other peoples hard limits whether you agree with them or not, makes you in my opinion, have no business calling yourself a dom.




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 6:28:28 PM)

Ok,I cannot resist rocking the boat a little bit more.And hence I apologise ahead of time to any that this will offend..While as I have stated, I fully understand such a line in the sand being drawn by many that have medical issues or UM's with issues.  I find it truly amazing that some of these submissives have so many respiratory issues, that actual life and death is a factor, and yet have never smoked in their lives whilst the smokers seem not to have any such issues.I have noticed in the past 10-15 years that with the advent of demonizing smokers, many people use the excuse of it will cause me to end up in the hospital with an asthma attack, or I am allergic to the smell of smoke.It has become popular to segregate smokers, and to look down upon them with a superior sniff.But I have to question as to why so many people who do not smoke suffer so with asthma and that the children are now increasing two fold with having respiratory issues. To look at that big picture would create in many a discomfort, for then they know it would force them to realize that they too are responsible and may have to give up some creature comfort, and god forbid that happens!..Look to the air people,the pollution created by big business,yeah the same ones that manufacture goods that you have in your homes, the pollution created by your own cars, lawnmowers,motorcycles, boats..look to these as well and say..I will give these up and make them a hard limit of life because it further aggravates my um's asthma...Look to the bigger picture, and look in your mirror when you feel tempted to look down upon the smoker and sniff in superiority...Tempting



jmslilbytch -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 6:28:58 PM)

Before I begin, I didn't read all the posts on this thread. For what it's worth, you shouldn't want to subject anyone that doesn't want to be subjected to something that can or will damage their health. Smoking is bad for you, no less someone that doesn't. I smoke, it's a nasty habit, one that I have been trying to quit. I haven't been successful yet, but I am sure that He will make it so one way or another.
As I read your post, all I saw was a selfish viewpoint, "If I wanted to smoke in the house". Since she doesn't and it's her house, she has the right to tell you that she doesn't want you to. Now, the "ifs", you know the saying about "ifs", right? If those other senarios happened I would think that it would be discussed and settled prior or when they arose.
You're trying to tell her even though you smoke you could make her happy enough that it wouldn't matter. That might not be the case for her. Find someone that smokes if it means that much to you, or quit. Offer to smoke outside. Whatever, but don't put your habit, since it's bad for her health, on her.
Not being submissive? Her telling you that you couldn't smoke in her house has nothing to do with not being submissive. Since she is a friend, it dosen't apply. If she was a potential sub, once you found out she doesn't smoke and doesen't like it, it shouldn't be an issue. Accept, compromise, or don't. She has the right to be rigid about her health, especially if you're not going to; whether she be a friend or your sub.



hereyesruponyou -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 8:19:56 PM)

I don't think everyone who doesn't approve of or want to be smoked around is necessarily looking down on smokers. You may feel that way as you have become the minority. Many smokers, like my parents, grew up in a time when they ruled, and non smokers dealt with it. Times change. Opinions change, and smoker's are not in the majority, period, therefore they have lost the ability to push their habit on others. Smoking is not the worst habit there is by far, but it is one that is easy rally around.

Yes asthma is increasing and smoking does not necessarily contribute to that, but it does irritate the airways of many people. I grew up in a household where everyone else smoked. I had "chronic bronchitis" since i was a child. Amazingly i have not had one bout of bronchitis since i moved out at 18. Coincidence or causal? Doesn't matter to me. Being around smokers makes me stuffy, NOT a very dommely look.....so i don't play with smokers. nbd



Wildnfreehrt2004 -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 8:35:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

I don't smoke ,haven't for 20 years however I am married to a heave smoker.DIANE smokes in her office or in the dinning room,She respect my disdain for the smell of smoke.Those that serve follows the same guidelines.I am not as pure as driven snow I dip when I am out side yes I know thats just as bad but there is some thing about the smell of smoke not only in the room but on a persons body...bounty ..edited to add,have you ever noticed all the people standing out side in a snow Storm or rain lighting up [:)]


LOL! Yes.. all huddled near the door so no one can get in or out without going through them....

and while I think it's admirable that people step outside to smoke, please consider where if neighbors are close - they may need a smoke-free environment too. For those who keep it outside of their cars, it still gets in other's cars who have the windows rolled up....

Wildy
I see no easy solution to people's right to smoke vs other's right to breathe and live smoke-free.



juliaoceania -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 8:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

Ok,I cannot resist rocking the boat a little bit more.And hence I apologise ahead of time to any that this will offend..While as I have stated, I fully understand such a line in the sand being drawn by many that have medical issues or UM's with issues.  I find it truly amazing that some of these submissives have so many respiratory issues, that actual life and death is a factor, and yet have never smoked in their lives whilst the smokers seem not to have any such issues.I have noticed in the past 10-15 years that with the advent of demonizing smokers, many people use the excuse of it will cause me to end up in the hospital with an asthma attack, or I am allergic to the smell of smoke.It has become popular to segregate smokers, and to look down upon them with a superior sniff.But I have to question as to why so many people who do not smoke suffer so with asthma and that the children are now increasing two fold with having respiratory issues. To look at that big picture would create in many a discomfort, for then they know it would force them to realize that they too are responsible and may have to give up some creature comfort, and god forbid that happens!..Look to the air people,the pollution created by big business,yeah the same ones that manufacture goods that you have in your homes, the pollution created by your own cars, lawnmowers,motorcycles, boats..look to these as well and say..I will give these up and make them a hard limit of life because it further aggravates my um's asthma...Look to the bigger picture, and look in your mirror when you feel tempted to look down upon the smoker and sniff in superiority...Tempting


Would you like to see my UMs medical records and my medical records? I was starting to have to have emergency breathing treatments if I became ill, since I quit smoking I have had the flu and had no breathing problems as a result. Smoking kills, secondhand smoke is hurtful to those who do not smoke, and your attitude is very dismissive to the feelings of others and their issues. It does not help to have indoor pollution to add on top of the outdoor pollution, and I am living proof that removing one source of pollution (ciggies) can improve one's health dramatically.  Now I do not look down on people who smoke as human beings. I was a human being and I smoked, but I know it is a choice to smoke. It is a choice I exercised for 23 years of my life. Now I choose not to smoke, I also choose to surround myself with nonsmokers as far as people I would want to form long term relationships with. My choice.

I know how it feels to be passed over by men I was attracted to because I smoked. It was disappointing to me, but I understood their position, and I never judged them for it. I realized how gross my habit must be to them. I did not think they were looking down on me, but I surely was not pleased with myself over it, and I guess that is why I quit. I think that smokers that feel ostricized because of their habit should try to see it from a different perspective instead of just their own.

I was a very considerate smoker. I understood I was offensive to others, and took steps not to be, and I certainly did not think they were looking down on me because they did not like the way I smelled and I certainly did not justify making their environment more polluted because other pollution exists, instead of being part of the problem, being part of the sollution is much more productive in my reality.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 10:01:33 PM)

Tempting, I'm enjoying your devils advocate posts.

Yes, smoking can cause health issues.  I tend to think it doesn't cause any more health issues than some of the food we eat, but that's my own parade to march.  In my slavery to my Master, I trust him to make decisions on my behalf, including decisions about my health.  In my case, I am not allowed to smoke, and that has saved me from starting again on several occasions, tough as it was to resist that urge to light up (an example of slavery sometimes being work).

Now, my Master does not smoke and won't start, but if he did, that would be his choice, and his choice for me should he choose to smoke near me.  I don't call the shots.  If he chooses to smoke, or feed me something unhealthy, or expose me to something risky - - it's all the same to me.  His choice.  His doing.  His consequences.  This is what ownership means to me. 

As for the charming "doormat" comment made above - yay to doormats!  I'm a happy one at that.  Although this doormat has a voice and could ask my Master if he would reconsider, and I could explain why I'm asking.  Whatever he decides after that is up to him.

Example:  When he gave me the edict to lose weight, he suggested the Nutrisystem diet.  After looking at their ingredients, I explained to him that their food is pure poison - full of crap that would just give me cancer.  I asked if I could try an alternative instead.  He listened, absorbed, and made his decision from there.  Had he said No, it's going to be Nutrisystem, then that's what I would do.  There are no conditions placed on my slavery to him at this point.  I understand others put conditions on theirs.  But please spare the insults to those of us who are happy doing what we're doing.

It's been an interesting thread, no doubt.  I've enjoyed reading the replies.



domiguy -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 10:14:45 PM)

I have been a smoker for a relatively short time.....Of late I have cut back dramatically....Down to just a few smokes a day.....I will quit at some point in the future not sure when, but I know I will.  I can totally understand someone not wanting to be with someone who smokes it is that persons choice.

Julia your stance on this subject smacks of hypocrisy.....It's time to pick on you a bit...I believe you would do the same.
quote:

juliaoceania
I am a former smoker. I smoked for 23 years. I have not smoked inside my own home or car since my son was born. That would mean I have not smoked inside in 17 years. So I have to say that if I was collared to someone, and they started smoking it would be crossing a hard limit line for me. My health and welfare are number one to me, and I would not tolerate someone smoking in my presense... period. I would not stay with someone that poisoned their body. I would not be with an addict of any sort. If they cannot control their own behavior, they will not be controlling me. If I am stronger than they are in controlling my bad habits that would cause me not to respect their authority.


Smoking is a shitty habit....At the moment I do dig tobacco....I can feel the jones of nicotine so I'm sure there is addiction at this point....It is bad for your health....It stinks...And is a waste of money.....You smoked for TWENTY THREE YEARS!!!!  There is nothing worse than a born again anything and a non-smoker would fall into this category.

quote:

juliaoceania
Would you like to see my UMs medical records and my medical records? I was starting to have to have emergency breathing treatments if I became ill, since I quit smoking I have had the flu and had no breathing problems as a result. Smoking kills, secondhand smoke is hurtful to those who do not smoke, and your attitude is very dismissive to the feelings of others and their issues.


Yet were not your actions as a smoker for TWENTY THREE the same?  Is there a possible correlation between your smoking and the medical records of your UM?

You were not concerned enough to quit while you were pregnant.....or maybe you did? ....But then you resumed your habit after the birth of your child....Being pregnant was not enough motivation for you to obviously quit. It seems you only quit when you felt that your own health was endangered....

quote:

juliaoceania
I have asthmatic reactions to smoke now and that is part of the reason I quit.


Wow....Look I'm happy for anyone who has quit smoking....But to come out here and preach about will power and control is B.S. You quit when it was evident that there were problems to your own health that could possibly be linked to your smoking......It's not like you made the decision without some prompting.

Smoking is gross.....Sometimes when I light up I think of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"...When the Chief who is talking about his dad's drinking says this.......

Chief Bromden: "The last time I seen my father, he was blind and diseased from drinking. And every time he put the bottle to his mouth, he don't suck out of it, it sucks out of him."

Smoking has the same affect....I will quit...But I hope to God I don't preach about it.  If I do....Please call me on it.




juliaoceania -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/5/2007 10:56:04 PM)

I quit smoking in my home and in my car when my son was born. I attempted to quit several times when I was pregnant also.

Now you are very hostile to me...I am not hostile to smokers. I do not date them, if that is a problem for you, suck it up because I aint changing that.

I live with the possibility of relapsing back into that addiction every day of my life, and I will do everything to distance myself from it, including not associating with people that smoke in my presense. I suppose if I was an alcoholic that gave up all associations with booze I would be lauded, but since it is ciggies and that is your chosen addiction I am just a horrible human being for stating I do not like smoking and do not want to be around it...

Now please point me to where I stated that smokers were evil or bad, or terrible people.. please point me to where I have insulted you or gotten personal with you about your smoking... please please please show me why you are jumping all over my ass because I choose not to engage in an activity which caused me  A LOT  of health problems...

Now you can say whatever you like to me about being born again, or whatever... but I think you are projecting hun, your sig line bashing Christians is but one example of your born again thinking...

Edited to add, when you take care of someone you love and watch them die of smoking related diseases you can judge me. That experience was the catalyst for both my mother and I to quit that habit... nothing more heartbreaking than seeing someone you love die in absolute abject misery. I hate cigarettes for that reason alone... you really have no clue what it is to give up two years of your life to care for someone chronically and terminally ill from smoking.



shivvy -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 12:20:57 AM)

once you have submitted and wear your Owners collar, then in a truely D/s household, you do as your told. if there are conditions, limits, rules, or woteva to you submission, then these have to be taken into consideration as well. but wot your Master.Mistress says, is basically it. you have chosen to submit and offered yourself to the Dom/me for Their guidence and direction. D/s is not a debating society.
 
before you are owned, i think it's a different matter, and before you offa yourself up to become your Owners property, then you have the same rights as any A/anybody else.
 
with respect,
shiv
-x-



Areflectionofyou -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 3:52:01 AM)

Im a non smoker....my Master is a smoker...we live together, and he smokes outside. before we bought the house he owned a beautiful condo in VA it cost him almost 1500.00 for special purifiers to get the smoke smell out of the condo to sell it....after that alone he chooses to never smoke inside again. You destroy a home let alone peoples health by smoking inside the house.



IrishMist -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 10:47:35 AM)

~ fast reply ~

I have smoked since I was 12 years old; I still do. I have not smoked inside my house since before my daughter was born; I do not smoke in the car; I do not go outside to smoke ( if my daughter is home ). I do not smoke in other people's houses, whether they do or not; nor do I go outside at their houses to smoke.

It's contradictiory since I don't have any concern for my own health considering this issue, but I don't want my daughter around second hand smoke, and I have kept this promise for more than 13 years in regards to her.
/shrug

Someone comes to my house it is the same rules. They do not smoke inside; if my daughter is home, they do not smoke outside. Period. My house, my rules. Simple. It has nothing to do with D/s and everything to do with...My house. My rules. Simple.




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 7:23:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Tempting, I'm enjoying your devils advocate posts.

Yes, smoking can cause health issues.  I tend to think it doesn't cause any more health issues than some of the food we eat, but that's my own parade to march.  In my slavery to my Master, I trust him to make decisions on my behalf, including decisions about my health.  In my case, I am not allowed to smoke, and that has saved me from starting again on several occasions, tough as it was to resist that urge to light up (an example of slavery sometimes being work).

Now, my Master does not smoke and won't start, but if he did, that would be his choice, and his choice for me should he choose to smoke near me.  I don't call the shots.  If he chooses to smoke, or feed me something unhealthy, or expose me to something risky - - it's all the same to me.  His choice.  His doing.  His consequences.  This is what ownership means to me. 

As for the charming "doormat" comment made above - yay to doormats!  I'm a happy one at that.  Although this doormat has a voice and could ask my Master if he would reconsider, and I could explain why I'm asking.  Whatever he decides after that is up to him.

Example:  When he gave me the edict to lose weight, he suggested the Nutrisystem diet.  After looking at their ingredients, I explained to him that their food is pure poison - full of crap that would just give me cancer.  I asked if I could try an alternative instead.  He listened, absorbed, and made his decision from there.  Had he said No, it's going to be Nutrisystem, then that's what I would do.  There are no conditions placed on my slavery to him at this point.  I understand others put conditions on theirs.  But please spare the insults to those of us who are happy doing what we're doing.

It's been an interesting thread, no doubt.  I've enjoyed reading the replies.
Thank You owned girle for understanding that I was playing devils advocate..I do not think I ever said the word doormat in my posting..for to make such a statement to anyone is beyond rude..I do however apologise if you felt I was being insulting, for actually that was not fully my intent. It was to help some to "see" that humanity as a whole has to find someone or something to "blame" for the bad things in life..and for those who suffer asthma, or have lost loved ones to cancer,copd or the like..and that person is the smoker.That is the face we blame, that is the one we keep pushing, for that is the one that is more easily viewed and controlled.Not big business, not our convenient little cars but "the smoker". Nasty habit for sure!..a choice some have made to do ..sure! But it does sometimes make you wonder if the smoker has been made the scape goat..the excuse to not change our automobiles, to stay with gasoline instead of alternatives.For big business to spew their pollutants into the air at a grand rate, but lets avoid having any attention being paid here..lets blame the smoker for pollution..As far as a smoker being in the minority..yes..is it a war??..us vs them??...And as Julia stated she prefers to being a solution to the problem..so is the solution, only ,that you give up cigarettes?What more would you be willing to give up, to be the solution??...Tempting



juliaoceania -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 7:27:12 PM)

quote:

And as Julia stated she prefers to being a solution to the problem..so is the solution, only ,that you give up cigarettes?What more would you be willing to give up, to be the solution??...Tempting


I have given up a lot of time and energy to the study of global warming, air pollution, and anthropogenic causes of such, have you?

I am currently applying for jobs to use that education to better this planet at different NGOs, have you?

I do not think you expected this particular answer.. but you got it.

I will reiterate, I have nothing against individuals who smoke, they will not be dominating me though.



TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking (6/6/2007 7:52:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

And as Julia stated she prefers to being a solution to the problem..so is the solution, only ,that you give up cigarettes?What more would you be willing to give up, to be the solution??...Tempting


I have given up a lot of time and energy to the study of global warming, air pollution, and anthropogenic causes of such, have you?

I am currently applying for jobs to use that education to better this planet at different NGOs, have you?

I do not think you expected this particular answer.. but you got it.

I will reiterate, I have nothing against individuals who smoke, they will not be dominating me though.
I do respect that you have given time and energy to study these issues, and kudos to you on that. I actually did not expect any particular answer from you, although I knew I would receive one.As for what I have done to be a solution and not the problem, I went in a different direction than study..and though I do dislike tooting my own horn so to speak..let us just say that I went into protest mode in the 70's and 80's..trying to open up the minds of closed minded individuals to what was happening..So thank you for your efforts and keep up the good work..:0)..Tempting



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