Ladies...and gentlemen? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 2:57:35 AM)

In the UK it seems, the gentleman - the sort who will give up his seat on the train, assist with luggage, open doors and so on for one, is disappearing. I notice this a lot in that on my business trips into the European continent, one finds gentlemen everywhere who unasked, will assist a lady down to the most minor detail such as lighting her cigarette for her. The difference is so marked that it takes a few hours to get used to.

I'm independent. I dont expect this sort of treatment - though its very easy to start liking it once the culture shock is over! It doesnt make me feel weak, inadequate or unable to cope on my own as perhaps some might argue - it makes me feel valued and respected.

I wondered what the general experience is out there for Ladies? It might be interesting to also see if there is any geographic/demographic relationship between experiences.

And I wondered too what motivates a guy to act the gentleman in this way? Is it just something they are brought up to do, and/or do they feel that there is some societal pressure on them - that others will judge them negatively if they dont treat a woman like a Lady?

NB this isnt about submissive behaviour / kink or whatever. Its about interactions in public in normal everyday life.

E



Politesub53 -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 3:07:13 AM)

Hi LadyEllen, being from the UK the answer as to why i open doors ect is easy. i was raised that way, it was just something instilled in us boys from an early age. It does seem to be the case that society is changing. Some young men wont offer seats, some young ladies will scorn you if you do offer. i have even been sworn at as being a sexist pig... On the whole though i think the majority of people are still pretty well mannered and.... polite [;)]



HybridMoments -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 3:53:28 AM)

A lot of people seem to notice the decline in everyday manners in places like the USA or UK. Personally, I think of it generally being the same. Though it might be different in the United Kingdom, over here in the US manners tend to have thier rise and fluctuations depending on amazingly complex variables (Read: I have no idea what the hell they are). I always hold doors open for people, I'm always friendly and polite "Yes, Sir." "No, Ma'am" (Or the opposite on this board [;)]). I've never actually had the need to give up my seat, or I can't remember of the no doubt numerous times it happened but I was just too out of it to realize.



MHOO314 -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 4:24:32 AM)

Well LadyEllen, I am independent too and I do expect that behavior---and I do not think it demeans My independence one bit---I also expect thst My family gives up their seat to an older person, open doors for someone with too many children in arms or strollers, says good morning, afternoon or evening,  please and thank you--and I would say that at least here in the States, the social ammenities are sadly lacking---and I won't settle for someone who doesn't have them---oh and I will also open the door for My submissive when his arms are ful of packages too!
 
smiles
 
 



SunNMoon -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 5:01:48 AM)

Good morning,
I'm in the US and I have to say I've seen a trend of people in my peer group (early 20s) opening doors for each other and giving up seats on the bus. From what I've seen it starts when people enter into college, all of the boys on my campus would open doors and be protective of the women they knew. Such as making sure that they got home safely at night. I still see both of these now that I am a little older. Now the giving up seats on the bus only happens for small children, older people and pregnant women. Everyone else just has to make do.

For the “yes ma’am or sir” I haven’t ever really encountered that. I think that might be more of a regional thing. When I was growing up all adults went by their first names so I think the ma’am or sir just wouldn’t fit in with the common level of formality.



thetammyjo -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 5:52:55 AM)

Fox's father raised to be a gentleman and I've used that to my full advantage.

The only problem I have with this actions (opening doors, offering help, etc) is when they are clearly motivated by something other than being polite.

I did an experiment over a few weeks when I was in college. I worked at the business school for the Dean and one of my jobs was to get and deliver the mail. This was a couple blocks walking and I could be moving one basket or four so I used a dolly to spare my back extra problems.

My experience was to watch and note who would open the doors for me if I arrived at the same time as another person or as they were leaving.

This is what I noticed.

Women always opened the door for me.

Men opened the door for me if I had at least two containers on my dolly OR if I was wearing a short skirt or dress.

I never asked these people what motivated them but I felt like it was just being helpful for the women and more a sign of how weak I seemed to the men.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 6:08:39 AM)

I was raised to open doors for women, say Ma'am and Sir to folks out of respect, assist women with packages and the like, give up my seat to women when there wasn't one avaliable, etc.  I have always done that.  I can feel my mother's disapproving gaze if I ever forget to be a gentleman.  I was raised in the South, and that was what was expected of any man from a decent family when I was growing up.  Unfortunately, that type of behavior is becoming more uncommon as I age.  I blame it on on our rapid paced society and our transplanted Yankee cousin's  increasing affluence on Southern culture. 

I have a lot of displeasure with the attitudes of people in modern society.  People wear shorts and t-shirts to nice restaurants and on airplanes for God's sake.  My friends discourage me for saying anything when I attempt to scold someone for using foul language in the middle of the day in a family restaurant.  I really don't understand why once common ethics and manners have completely been discarded.  It turns my stomach when I think about it. 



petdave -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 6:15:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
And I wondered too what motivates a guy to act the gentleman in this way? Is it just something they are brought up to do, and/or do they feel that there is some societal pressure on them - that others will judge them negatively if they dont treat a woman like a Lady?

NB this isnt about submissive behaviour / kink or whatever. Its about interactions in public in normal everyday life.

E


i was brought up this way, to a certain extent, but of course it's a little bungled up in submission to Women... i actually feel guilty when i see a woman struggling with something heavy, or standing when she seems infirm. It has nothing to do with societal pressure, and more to do with being a "fixer" by nature. However, men do not inspire the same response unless they're elderly. Unfortunately, after getting snarky and even rude responses in the past, i almost never offer assistance, i just help if asked.

Holding doors and the like i do without really thinking about it, because it just seems rude to let a door fly in someone's face if they're right there (regardless of gender or age).



Eldritchdancer -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 6:24:45 AM)

Why do I open doors, help with heavy loads, etc?

I like to help people. Period. I'm a very independent Master, which has thrown a few subs off, because I'll get up to get my own stuff instead of making them bring it to me. *chuckle*
But I was raised that Sir and Ma'am are -required- forms of address to anyone of Authority, such as a supervisor, etc..

Master Darkmoon



feralcat -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 7:24:15 AM)

Gentlemen are raised that way.

My son-now a teen -opens doors,helps with packages,does small chores without being asked, etc...he is just an all around "nice young man".The compliments he receives from other people, male AND female about his nice behavior not only reminds him his efforts are noticed,but that they are very appreciated as well. 

Now I attribute a lot of this to his home life,but also to the submissive men I have dated these past 10 yrs. Most learn by example,so I guess I have shown him the lost art of good manners through my choice in men. 

One man (a "submissive" so he claims) commented that I was raising my son to be a submissive. I never even considered that to be honest. What I am raising is a polite ,repectful,well mannered human being-like his Mom and Dad. Lord knows we could use a lot more of that on this good Earth! Needless to say ,the submissive in question failed to get my attention after that comment.


Ms Feral



MistressLorelei -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 7:59:35 AM)

I think it's way more often than not that any male (older than a teen-ager) will hold a door open for  me.  I have come to expect it I suppose, maybe it shows.   I don't take many trains or buses, and can't comment on whether less males will give up a seat now vs. then or here vs. there.   I do however spend a bit of time in bookstores studying, and when I arrive and there is no available table, I am usually offered a table by a male who has one.  Many times males will give up a spot in line (like yesterday when I had to wait in line to pay for gas, because the pump auto feature was broken).

As I have gotten older, I have noticed the politeness levels of males seems to have increased, (perhaps males show more respect to a woman in her 30's vs. one in her 20's?) and even moreso after moving to South Carolina, where southern hospitality is still a way of life.  I am independent, and certainly capable of opening my own doors...but I like the gesture and do not feel that it undermines my independence whatsoever... perhaps it just enhances my femininity, and that's not a bad thing.



tulipgoose -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 8:16:50 AM)

I just moved from the US to Canada and have noticed that far more people are polite here than down there. The only thing is that most young men aren't too helpful. I've been walking literally a couple paces behind a young man at some points and we'd be walking through the same door, he'd be aware of me, but let the door hit me. I'm usually good at catching the door, and I hold it open sometimes for people fairly far away, or groups of people. I always say thank you, not always please, depending on the situation, but I alllways show gratitude for things. I just wonder what happened to all the people I grew up beside? I suppose it was that I truly didn't grow up beside them...... I was raised around a lot of adults. My dad is a teacher, so I grew up in the teacher's lounge and didn't always take my own teachers seriously because of that fact. I knew what teachers said behind students backs, I knew the power trips they were on, and I knew when to spot one who was truly concerned with students well being. In this I knew how to "fake" respect towards those I simply wished to be kind to, and truly give it to those who deserved it. You shall rarely recieve kindness, but you're more likely to recieve a smile when you give one, and many things can be built from there. That is how I live.



slaverosebeauty -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 8:56:57 AM)

I found a few gentleman out here on the West Coast of the US. Maybe I have lucked out in finding them. Men who open car doors or building doors; its incredibly arousing to see a man act like gentleman, I can't explain why that it is.

I was with one Master for a while an I remember when he got upset because I opened my own car door from the inside before he could get to it. He made me get back inside the car, put my hands in my lap, he closed and and came back around and sat back insides, explained me that I should NEVER open my own door when around him, I can reach over to unlock his door, yet he is to ALWAYS open and close my doors for me as well as help me to sit and to stand. THEN he got out, locked and closed his door, came over to my side, opened it, helped me out, then locked and closed my door than took me on his arm. He said, "thats better. You don't open your doors, I do." I was so impressed that I was on the verge of subspace, just by how much a gentleman he was and by how submissive I felt. It was heaven.

Since then, I have found a few men who open doors, order for me, etc. I prefer it, its a very {at a loss for words} 'attractive' {I can't find another word} act. It makes me feel like a lady and in my case of being a slave, it puts me into that 'place' where he IS more fully in charge an he is directing things.



Lordandmaster -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 8:59:06 AM)

Yeah, and it's women who are chasing that gentleman away.  Too many times I've held a door open for a woman and she's made some kind of nasty comment.  OK, fuck you then, open the door yourself.

Anyway, I think there are more important things that men can do for women than hold doors open for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

In the UK it seems, the gentleman - the sort who will give up his seat on the train, assist with luggage, open doors and so on for one, is disappearing.



Kurzon -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 9:04:54 AM)

     Speaking for myself, I would have to say it is learned behavior.

  From a very early age I was taught (by both parents)to always open a door for ladies and the elderly, and that it was just good manners that if you are holding the door for your grandmother and a group of people(regardless of age or gender) are following closely behind,to hold the door for them as well - even if it means having to go search for your party after letting them through.

But that is just the tip of the good manners iceberg - you never address anyone by their first name unless invited to do so( if you do not know them then it is Sir and Ma'am, if you do know them then it is Mr. Hill or Mrs. Smith) to this day I address my friends children  with respect as well(although in the case of children first names are appropriate - as in: Miss  Stephanie or Master Bryan) .You always give up your seat to anyone you perceive as being not as able-bodied as yourself.You never make private disputes public.A man should never hit there woman or a child out of anger( after you calm down discipline as needed)When walking down the street the man should always walk between any woman or child and traffic(just in case a drunk chooses that moment to drive onto the sidewalk a gentleman will give his life to save any woman or child) You always make sure the girl gets home safe( that one I learned the hard way after my first date -a blind date mind you-  being 15 and relining on others for transportation, I got home late,  and the friend who provided the ride lived beyond my dates home so it made logical sense to drop me off first, when my parents learned this after I walked in my parents made me wait until she should be home and then call her father, at 3 am, to see if she made it home ok-on a side note instead of becoming angry at me for calling so late or getting her home so late her parents fell in love with me for the concern I showed for their daughter)

  I could go on all morning like this, but to cut to the chase, manners are learned.Nothing annoys me more than to see young people treat each other with little or no respect, or to laugh and crack jokes at the expense of the mentaly impaired or edlerly(not to imply that the elderly are mentaly impaired).

  To put it simply it is a gentleman's duty to make everyone around him  feel as at ease as he can at all times.



chiaThePet -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 9:40:27 AM)

Dearest LadyEllen,

i think more than likely it is associated with upbringing, as is a wide variety
of behavior. Mother was responsible for much of my thought processs in
relation to my interaction with other human beings, father for the most part
was out of the picture. The strict tough love with which my Mother raised
me, was pronounced in the understanding of how i was to adhere to the
treatment of Women around me, set by example of how She commanded
She Herself be treated. Of course in the day to day, circumstance will alter
how such behavior is or isn't brought to the surface, or is simply worn always
on one's sleeve.

My day is filled with service to Women, a constant thread of joyful pampering
of which i feel most fortunate. i find it in my heart without second thought, to
hold those doors, fetch a refreshment, massage tight neck and shoulder muscles,
walk Them to Their car after dusk, or for my elderly clients, meet Them curbside,
offer an arm, and escort Them to and from Their appointment. It isn't something
i have to think about, it just flows naturally, a part of me that simply exists within.

i think most individuals exhibit this sense of "common courtesy", though the
hurried nature of our days most certainly affects those "little" moments of
personal interaction. Yes, we have also become a bit more selfish to ourselves
i believe, choosing to scurry along, eyes forward, simply trying to get from
point A to point B without interruption. The world around us is less tolerant,
somewhat angrier, a bit paranoid and we have lost that nod of the head, little
smile, simple notice of those whose paths we cross. i almost feel as though
some find such by a stranger as an intrusion of their personal space. Unfortunate,
but mistrust that others intentions may be something more than what is on the
surface, probably adds to the hesitation of pleasant interaction.

What may be even sadder still, is the flip side of the situation, where by one's
common courtesy is met with negative reaction, or no reaction at all. Though
it is the exception rather than the norm, it happens enough that the thought
stays with me when i do hold the door and get no simple Thank You or even
a smile acknowledging my effort. When i smile and eyes quickly turn away,
when in the course of simple day to day interaction, indidviduals bark and
sneer as though they expect you are going to do the same. We are less than
trusting of one another these days, and common courtesy suffers for such,
wounded, but certainly not dead.  Thank You for getting me thinking.

chia* (the pet)



LadyEllen -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 9:57:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurzon

      To put it simply it is a gentleman's duty to make everyone around him  feel as at ease as he can at all times.



Kurzon - I think what you said here is wonderful.

E



littlesarbonn -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 10:25:02 AM)

I always open doors for ladies, unless doing so makes them feel uncomfortable. Yes, there is a segment of the population that actually doesn't like it.

But I also tend to open doors for pretty much anyone that is coming behind me. I find it to be much more about manners than gender disposition. Granted, I'll go completely out of my way to help out a woman who needs something, within reason unless I'm personally serving her, but in most cases it has more to do with liking to help people in any way that I can.



DiannaVesta -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 10:36:51 AM)

I am born southern and love living in the south because I feel that southern boys are taught to be respectful and polite or at least act that way. I am very comfortable with that and very unconfortable when its different. In fact I do my damnest to avoid it but sometimes you can't.



nonu -> RE: Ladies...and gentlemen? (6/6/2007 10:42:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

I was with one Master for a while an I remember when he got upset because I opened my own car door from the inside before he could get to it. He made me get back inside the car, put my hands in my lap, he closed and and came back around and sat back insides, explained me that I should NEVER open my own door when around him, I can reach over to unlock his door, yet he is to ALWAYS open and close my doors for me as well as help me to sit and to stand. THEN he got out, locked and closed his door, came over to my side, opened it, helped me out, then locked and closed my door than took me on his arm. He said, "thats better. You don't open your doors, I do." I was so impressed that I was on the verge of subspace, just by how much a gentleman he was and by how submissive I felt. It was heaven.



What a truly wonderful way of being Dominant. I can understand how submissive you would've felt, being treated that way by your own Master. Lucky!



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