RE: "Gift of Submission"

RE: "Gift of Submission" (Full Version)

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addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 12:31:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it If a submissive or slave is truly dedicated to his or her owner/mistress/master, their only concern is to give of themselves without expecting anything in returen. So the only path to being truly dedicated is to not expect anything in return? i don't agree. That sounds good in theory but stinks in practice. The path to finding acceptance from a domme should not include any expectations. You pledge to serve her, and by your well-meaning service, she may grant you the opportunity of fulfilling at least some of your needs. If you approach a relationship of this kind based upon expections, you will soon learn that selfishness is not the way. Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing.

velvetears -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 1:47:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it The path to finding acceptance from a domme should not include any expectations. You pledge to serve her, and by your well-meaning service, she may grant you the opportunity of fulfilling at least some of your needs. If you approach a relationship of this kind based upon expections, you will soon learn that selfishness is not the way. Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing. i don't agree that having needs met and expecting them to be met means you are selfish. i don't look to find "acceptance" from a dom i look to find compatibility - i would not want someone who when they felt like it met my needs. i value what i give and don't consider it selfish to want to dedicate myself to someone i have faith in who will meet my needs. Kudos to you for accepting crumbs even when your totally dedicated.

CdnExplorer -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 2:06:20 PM)
I don't think addicted2it is talking about taking crumbs from someone and hoping that pure dedication will make it work. Find the compatibility, and THEN give. It's fine to expect that certain needs will be met, but you don't focus on that when you're giving submission. Or in a vanilla setting with your love. Some people here are making it sound like a business transaction. I'd find someone I'm compatible with, similar kink interests etc...and offer my submission without conditions. ie: Demanding that activity X be performed every other sunday and on the full moon. If it ends up that your needs aren't being met then you discuss it, after all you're both adults right? If despite the basic compatibility your needs cannot be met by the relationship then you end it. Going into a potential relationship with a list of demands at the very start is a good way to kill the romance of it.

MadRabbit -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 2:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing. Your expecting something in return. Your expecting to be happy by selflessly giving yourself to your Domme. If it didnt make you happy, you probably wont do it. The point being...its never ever solely about one person in any relationship. Everything is looking to have some needs met, get something out of it, and find fulfillment when they enter into a relationship. You want the happiness and fullfillment that comes from focusing selflessly on your Mistress. If this expectation of and need for happiness and fullfillment wasnt met, then I doubt you would be selflessly focusing on your Mistress which...ironically brings into question just how compeletely selfless your selfless submission is...

velvetears -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 2:27:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer I don't think addicted2it is talking about taking crumbs from someone and hoping that pure dedication will make it work. Find the compatibility, and THEN give. It's fine to expect that certain needs will be met, but you don't focus on that when you're giving submission. Or in a vanilla setting with your love. Some people here are making it sound like a business transaction. I'd find someone I'm compatible with, similar kink interests etc...and offer my submission without conditions. ie: Demanding that activity X be performed every other sunday and on the full moon. If it ends up that your needs aren't being met then you discuss it, after all you're both adults right? If despite the basic compatibility your needs cannot be met by the relationship then you end it. Going into a potential relationship with a list of demands at the very start is a good way to kill the romance of it. Personally i don't think that's a good approach. You say find someone your compatible with , similar interests, etc, spend time building a relationship and hope in the interum your submission will elicit having your needs met? i'm not talking about wants here - needs are things you can't suvive without, or live healthy without. i presonally would prefer to negotiate upfront, before i get emotionally entangled with that person, what needs they were willing to meet.

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 2:52:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it The path to finding acceptance from a domme should not include any expectations. YOUR path can be whatever you wish. Please don't assume mine has to match it. If you approach a relationship of this kind based upon expections, you will soon learn that selfishness is not the way. Again...it that works for you, great. Having expectations and being selfish are not the same thing. We all have expectations about things. That doesn't mean they are selfish. Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, I would agree with that for me. Not sure everyone would, esp. all dominants. but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing. And...yet again....maybe in your relationship but not mine. I place no "conditions" on Master or our relationship but I do indeed receive plenty from Him. Being happy and receiving positive things in return does not mean I'm not giving, serving, and achieving. I think many here would concur that it may sound great to talk about everything being one-sided with the sub/slave always just giving and the Dom/Master always just taking and in short-term, "play" relationships maybe this works. I have yet to know any couple in a long-term, committed relationship who could operate like that indefinitely. I heard a saying once about being altruistic. By it's very definition, altruism means unselfish regard for others. We usually think of it when someone selflessly gives without expecting anything in return. But, the person being altruistic usually gets a warm, fuzzy feeling from doing so. Aren't they getting something in return then? Even if it's just that warm, fuzzy feeling? Wasn't that perhaps part of what motivated them to be altruistic in the first place? So, even the most selfless sub/slave who claims to want nothing and never receive anything "in return," really does get something in return even if it's only the feeling of being so selfless...............slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 3:03:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Your expecting something in return. Your expecting to be happy by selflessly giving yourself to your Domme. If it didnt make you happy, you probably wont do it. The point being...its never ever solely about one person in any relationship. Everything is looking to have some needs met, get something out of it, and find fulfillment when they enter into a relationship. You want the happiness and fullfillment that comes from focusing selflessly on your Mistress. If this expectation of and need for happiness and fullfillment wasnt met, then I doubt you would be selflessly focusing on your Mistress which...ironically brings into question just how compeletely selfless your selfless submission is... Damn it, Mad Rabbit. You did it again[8D]. You said what I meant. That's exactly what I was trying to find the words for. We ALL are having some need(s)met. Some simply have the need to feel like they DON'T have needs or that they DO have them but they might not be met. Again, whatever works for you but, at some level, we all are having some need(s) met ...... slave luci

MadRabbit -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 3:11:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Your expecting something in return. Your expecting to be happy by selflessly giving yourself to your Domme. If it didnt make you happy, you probably wont do it. The point being...its never ever solely about one person in any relationship. Everything is looking to have some needs met, get something out of it, and find fulfillment when they enter into a relationship. You want the happiness and fullfillment that comes from focusing selflessly on your Mistress. If this expectation of and need for happiness and fullfillment wasnt met, then I doubt you would be selflessly focusing on your Mistress which...ironically brings into question just how compeletely selfless your selfless submission is... Damn it, Mad Rabbit. You did it again[8D]. You said what I meant. That's exactly what I was trying to find the words for. We ALL are having some need(s)met. Some simply have the need to feel like they DON'T have needs or that they DO have them but they might not be met. Again, whatever works for you but, at some level, we all are having some need(s) met ...... slave luci And if selfless submission is the true path to happiness, then all us Dominants, Masters, and Mistresses must be some unhappy fucking people.. [:D]

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 3:33:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit And if selfless submission is the true path to happiness, then all us Dominants, Masters, and Mistresses must be some unhappy fucking people.. [:D] Yup, that's what I said above. Master seems pretty thrilled with His life as it is so there must be some other secret to it[;)]......luci

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 3:40:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing. Your expecting something in return. Your expecting to be happy by selflessly giving yourself to your Domme. If it didnt make you happy, you probably wont do it. I don't know whether you are agreeing or disagreeing. I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. quote: The point being...its never ever solely about one person in any relationship. Everything is looking to have some needs met, get something out of it, and find fulfillment when they enter into a relationship. You want the happiness and fullfillment that comes from focusing selflessly on your Mistress. If this expectation of and need for happiness and fullfillment wasnt met, then I doubt you would be selflessly focusing on your Mistress which...ironically brings into question just how compeletely selfless your selfless submission is... There is always a payoff, regardless of whether we are submissive, slave, or dominant. If our needs are not met (and everyone has their own individual needs), I do not believe that there would be any master or mistress/slave relationship.

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 3:55:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it The path to finding acceptance from a domme should not include any expectations. YOUR path can be whatever you wish. Please don't assume mine has to match it. If you approach a relationship of this kind based upon expections, you will soon learn that selfishness is not the way. Again...it that works for you, great. Having expectations and being selfish are not the same thing. We all have expectations about things. That doesn't mean they are selfish. Giving of one's self is truly the path to happiness, I would agree with that for me. Not sure everyone would, esp. all dominants. but if you do not have the capacity, or you are not willing to give without expecting something in return, it is not a gift, but a condition, and you will be successful in achieving nothing. And...yet again....maybe in your relationship but not mine. I place no "conditions" on Master or our relationship but I do indeed receive plenty from Him. Being happy and receiving positive things in return does not mean I'm not giving, serving, and achieving. I think many here would concur that it may sound great to talk about everything being one-sided with the sub/slave always just giving and the Dom/Master always just taking and in short-term, "play" relationships maybe this works. I have yet to know any couple in a long-term, committed relationship who could operate like that indefinitely. I heard a saying once about being altruistic. By it's very definition, altruism means unselfish regard for others. We usually think of it when someone selflessly gives without expecting anything in return. But, the person being altruistic usually gets a warm, fuzzy feeling from doing so. Aren't they getting something in return then? Even if it's just that warm, fuzzy feeling? Wasn't that perhaps part of what motivated them to be altruistic in the first place? So, even the most selfless sub/slave who claims to want nothing and never receive anything "in return," really does get something in return even if it's only the feeling of being so selfless...............slave luci slavelucyi, in no way am I trying to influence you or anyone else into believing that any or all of the elements of my philosophy are true for all. Expectations are fine in any relationship, providing there is at least a possibility that one's wishes and fantasies will, at some point, be recognized and incorporated into the mistress or master slave relationship. There is no guarantee that your particular needs will be satisfied, just as in life, where nothing is certain but birth and death. Happiness is what you make of it. But pleeezzze, if you want to make your comments more easily readable, please place a bracket in which there is a /quote after each comment that you are responding to, because it will aid us in understanding your POV. BTW, I do like the purple. I am sorry, but I can't display the HTML code here, because it would confuse you even more. ;-)

MadRabbit -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:15:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it slavelucyi, in no way am I trying to influence you or anyone else into believing that any or all of the elements of my philosophy are true for all. quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. Hmmm....

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:16:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. Please don't get into the "true" slave thing. That has a different meaning for every slave on here. There is no way that we can fit each others' definitions. It's the height of arrogance for any slave (or anyone else for that matter) to determine what makes another one "true." They'll blast you off these boards for using that word[;)]. And again, everyone has expectations of some sort. It's impossible not to. There is always a payoff, regardless of whether we are submissive, slave, or dominant. If our needs are not met (and everyone has their own individual needs), I do not believe that there would be any master or mistress/slave relationship I wholeheartedly agree........luci

bandit25 -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:19:01 PM)
LOL luci. This post scrolled by on the left and the first thing I thought was "stop with the 'true' shit!" You said it a lot nicer than I would have.

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:20:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it But pleeezzze, if you want to make your comments more easily readable, please place a bracket in which there is a /quote after each comment that you are responding to, because it will aid us in understanding your POV. BTW, I do like the purple. I am sorry, but I can't display the HTML code here, because it would confuse you even more. ;-) I use the purple so that my reply does appear distinct from what I'm quoting. Frankly, I'm ignorant of how to do what you've asked me to do[:)] so, no, please don't confuse me even more.....lol......luci

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:21:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it slavelucyi, in no way am I trying to influence you or anyone else into believing that any or all of the elements of my philosophy are true for all. quote: ORIGINAL: addicted2it I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. Hmmm.... [:D].....I know, I know..........luci

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 LOL luci. This post scrolled by on the left and the first thing I thought was "stop with the 'true' shit!" You said it a lot nicer than I would have. Well bandit, I DO try to be diplomatic. I OFTEN fail, but I honestly DO try[:)].........luci

bandit25 -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:24:18 PM)
Although I'm not crazy about the purple, your comments are quite distinct luci. I wouldn't worry about it.

slaveluci -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 4:28:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 Although I'm not crazy about the purple, your comments are quite distinct luci. I wouldn't worry about it. [;)]....thanks. I'm sure I'll sleep just fine tonight........luci

CdnExplorer -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/8/2007 8:54:22 PM)
We're talking past eachother again :) If I had certain needs that absolutely had to be met we would have discussed such things looooong before we ever got to the point of me offering myself. I'm not saying that you shouldn't discuss likes and limits until after you're committed, you're bound to have done that very early on before anything serious developed. You have to evaluate whether or not the other person actually cares about you and your needs. What you're talking about are very basic, critical incompatibilities. Things you should be able to discover in the first couple of weeks talking to a person. Maybe I just don't get it because it takes me a very long time to trust someone enough to submit, so that when I do we already know eachother quite well. By the time anything serious happens I have a very good idea whether or not my needs will be met. There's always the chance that things won't work out though, but that's life.

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