RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (Full Version)

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PapiNsweet -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 7:48:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


If that is what he wishes, then that is what he wishes.

I can not understand it since there are times when people can't be contacted and decisions need to be made right now. If he is willing to take that risk, that is his gamble.

However, with my experiences working for medical professionals, I can not consider it a good idea since the one who, under most circumstances, best understands what the patient would want is the significant other (in this case slave) - not the parent, uncle, cousin, or best friend.

In these cases where a master wants his slave to have control over nothing, even in cases of dire emergency, a living will might be a good idea.


my Master does have a living will, and he has clearly spelled out what he would wish to happen in the case of a severe medical condition, such as being in a coma or surviving only on life support. He would not be up to me or his family to make such decisions, he has made them himself. when i mentioned his family, i was referring to the paying of medical bills. so between his attorney, accountant, and family, there is no cause for me to ever take control over such things.

-prop



PapiNsweet -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 7:53:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shivvy

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

well finances are an important issue in a serious relationship, and absolutely should be discussed or negotiated prior to the start of something like a M/s relationship especially, i don't believe in the idea that a slave should look out for her own best interest (i.e. demanding knowledge of all financial matters, or keeping "a little something hidden away"). isn't that completely contrary to the whole idea of slavery in the first place? yes, there are great risks when one person becomes completely financially dependent on the other, and has no control over or say in the finances. however there are many risks attached to M/s relationships, that one along with all the others are things that should be carefully considered before making that leap.


i so agree with you.

i'm a slave in a 24/7 TPE relationship. i have a wee part time job, and all my wages go to my Master and HE controls all O/our finances. the only other money i get is my £16.50 a week child support, wot goes straight into my daughters savings account for when she is 18.

Master pays all the bills, and i really don't have nuffin to do with money at all. i just get my weekly allowence to pay for sweets and things for tink. Other than that, He pays for everything. 


it is very similar in this house. the times when i have worked outside the home, 100% of my paychecks went directly to him, i rarely even saw them. whether i am working or not, i get the same small allowance, every week (used to be every 2 weeks, so i guess i've had a raise? lol). i use this money for magazines, candy, books, just little things for myself. i am not permitted to save it.

-prop



BeingChewsie -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 8:01:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

It my sincere belief that a responsible owner who will not let thieir property work will inform their sub and slave of the household finances even that sub/slave doesn't want to know.

A very good point has been raised: What if Master ends up in the hospital in a coma? Do you know how to access the money? Do you know how he would want it paid for? Medical care is not cheap. He won't be there to help you and you won't be able to help him if you don't know. Comas can last for years and years and life support isn't free.

It it entirely within the duty of the submissive and slave to know how to take care of the household funds with when the owner is incapable of doing so.


this is only within the submissive's or slave's duty IF the Dominant/Master has declared such. if the Master has declared that such things are none of her concern, then they are none of her concern. issues that you mention above, such as how to handle financial matters in the case of a sudden illness, can be handled in ways that do not involve the submissive or slave taking control of the finances. if my Master were suddenly to fall ill tomorrow, and was unable to work or even think properly, therefore unable to take care of the bill paying and such, he has already made arrangements for his accountant to manage the basic household finances, and a close relative to take care of the car note and insurance. as far as medical care for himself, that would also be handled by a close relative. under absolutely no circumstances would he wish me to take such matters into my hands.


If that is what he wishes, then that is what he wishes.

I can not understand it since there are times when people can't be contacted and decisions need to be made right now. If he is willing to take that risk, that is his gamble.

However, with my experiences working for medical professionals, I can not consider it a good idea since the one who, under most circumstances, best understands what the patient would want is the significant other (in this case slave) - not the parent, uncle, cousin, or best friend.

In these cases where a master wants his slave to have control over nothing, even in cases of dire emergency, a living will might be a good idea.



My owner has advanced directives in place, a person who has power of attorney over medical decisions and they know exactly what his wishes are.

Everyone should have an advance health directive in place, including a living will and power of attorney over healthcare decisions, or healhcare proxy as its often called.



KatyLied -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 8:05:13 AM)

Yep, a big part of my issue in safeguarding something for my kids at the time of my death is because I know my ex won't.  He's not a good saver or planner, so I feel it's up to me to leave something to make my kid's lives a bit easier.  It won't be any big wealth.



KatyLied -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 8:06:58 AM)

quote:

Well you can take solace in the fact that at your passing I will be sure to inform them of your love of anal.


hehe
I do sometimes wonder (after I'm dead) which kid will clean out my closet and discover my stash of toys.



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:04:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


If that is what he wishes, then that is what he wishes.

I can not understand it since there are times when people can't be contacted and decisions need to be made right now. If he is willing to take that risk, that is his gamble.

However, with my experiences working for medical professionals, I can not consider it a good idea since the one who, under most circumstances, best understands what the patient would want is the significant other (in this case slave) - not the parent, uncle, cousin, or best friend.

In these cases where a master wants his slave to have control over nothing, even in cases of dire emergency, a living will might be a good idea.


my Master does have a living will, and he has clearly spelled out what he would wish to happen in the case of a severe medical condition, such as being in a coma or surviving only on life support. He would not be up to me or his family to make such decisions, he has made them himself. when i mentioned his family, i was referring to the paying of medical bills. so between his attorney, accountant, and family, there is no cause for me to ever take control over such things.

-prop


It's good that he has a living will. I need to get mine made up, but that helps healthcare professionals out a lot.

But honestly, what I'm more concerned with is those rare but awful situations where you can't get ahold of the person who should make the decision and the decision really has to be made right now. A copy of the living will should tell the doctors what to do though.

That and what I meant by "running the household" was knowing what to do when your owner is in a coma or such. Knowing where the bills are, how to get them paid, make sure the water doesn't get turned off, bank doesn't take the house, get pets to the vet (paying the vet), all that stuff that happens in day-to-day life that needs to be paid for and they aren't there to handle. I would view that as taking care of Valyraen's things until Valyraen comes back to run the house again. I know he would not be happy with me if he woke up from a coma and we were homeless.

Edited for typos [:'(]



slaveluci -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:12:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
That and what I meant by "running the household" was knowing what to do when your owner is in a coma or such. Knowing where the bills are, how to get them paid, make sure the water doesn't get turned off, bank doesn't take the house, get pets to the vet (paying the vet), all that stuff that happens in day-to-day life that needs to be paid for and they aren't there to handle. I would view that as taking care of Valyraen's things until Valyraen comes back to run the house again. I know he would not be happy with me if woke up from a coma and we were homeless.
Knowing what to do and how to handle things is NOT very submissive, aquatic sub.  You actually know such things and think you can call yourself a sub?[;)]  Seriously, I say ditto to your post.  Part of my service to Master is to take care of all these secretarial/organizational things.  If I didn't do so, a lot of the bills wouldn't be paid on time[:)] because He's the first to admit He's not the most organized, efficient guy in the world.  My handling of these things is a burden He doesn't have to deal with and we both view that as being a good servant.....luci 



PapiNsweet -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:13:52 AM)

Aquatic...the things you mention, like paying the household bills, are not things that need to be taken care of in seconds or even minutes. His attorney, his accountant, these are people who would be able to get back to me and deal with things within 24 hrs, 48hrs maximum, of being contacted. so i'm not really understanding what you mean by "right now" day-to-day decisions? perhaps groceries? if it were such a long-term situation, my Master has arranged for me to be taken into the care of another Dominant, who would most likely temporarily move me in with him.



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:21:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Knowing what to do and how to handle things is NOT very submissive, aquatic sub.  You actually know such things and think you can call yourself a sub?[;)]  Seriously, I say ditto to your post.  Part of my service to Master is to take care of all these secretarial/organizational things.  If I didn't do so, a lot of the bills wouldn't be paid on time[:)] because He's the first to admit He's not the most organized, efficient guy in the world.  My handling of these things is a burden He doesn't have to deal with and we both view that as being a good servant.....luci 



Darn, does this mean I have to turn in my twue sub card now? [:D]

To be honest, I'm rotten with money. Valyraen gives me a certain amount of cash to buy our food and household items, which I am in charge because I'm very good at shopping and finding a good deal!

But I still know what company handles our water, electricity, gas, cable, heat, who our vet is, where a 24/7 vet is, where the nearest ER is and all those gritty little details because if something happens to him, the burden falls to me. Right now we have a landlord so knowing isn't that big a deal, but I will always know.

I refuse to allow his home to fall to pieces while he isn't here. And I'm not going to let him down, nor are we comfortable with someone who doesn't live in our home and live our life coming in and handling all these things. They don't know what we like and don't like and what assurance do we have that they will listen to me? For that matter, even the most trusted person in the world can suddenly change their mind and decide that isn't how things should be done. I know the way Valyraen likes his home because I live with him. I wouldn't let someone else change his home, even if it does lose me subbie cred. [:)]



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:23:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

Aquatic...the things you mention, like paying the household bills, are not things that need to be taken care of in seconds or even minutes. His attorney, his accountant, these are people who would be able to get back to me and deal with things within 24 hrs, 48hrs maximum, of being contacted. so i'm not really understanding what you mean by "right now" day-to-day decisions? perhaps groceries? if it were such a long-term situation, my Master has arranged for me to be taken into the care of another Dominant, who would most likely temporarily move me in with him.


My point about right now was for medical conditions. Sometimes in the ER a decision has to be made right now and if the person who came in with the patient won't or can't make it, then the surgon will do it because it has to be done. That decision may not be the one the patient would have wanted and the ER you are in may not have a copy of his living will.



PapiNsweet -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:48:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

My point about right now was for medical conditions. Sometimes in the ER a decision has to be made right now and if the person who came in with the patient won't or can't make it, then the surgon will do it because it has to be done. That decision may not be the one the patient would have wanted and the ER you are in may not have a copy of his living will.



ahhh okay. in that case Daddy, like BeingChewsie's Master, has a medical proxy, however he has informed me of his wishes so that if some medical decision must be made within seconds, and i am the only one there, i know what to say. but i wouldn't call this taking control so much as doing what i've been ordered.




AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 9:55:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

My point about right now was for medical conditions. Sometimes in the ER a decision has to be made right now and if the person who came in with the patient won't or can't make it, then the surgon will do it because it has to be done. That decision may not be the one the patient would have wanted and the ER you are in may not have a copy of his living will.



ahhh okay. in that case Daddy, like BeingChewsie's Master, has a medical proxy, however he has informed me of his wishes so that if some medical decision must be made within seconds, and i am the only one there, i know what to say. but i wouldn't call this taking control so much as doing what i've been ordered.




I would call it making the decision based on the guidelines given to you, but it's probably just semantics. [:)]



BeingChewsie -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 12:29:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: PapiNsweet

Aquatic...the things you mention, like paying the household bills, are not things that need to be taken care of in seconds or even minutes. His attorney, his accountant, these are people who would be able to get back to me and deal with things within 24 hrs, 48hrs maximum, of being contacted. so i'm not really understanding what you mean by "right now" day-to-day decisions? perhaps groceries? if it were such a long-term situation, my Master has arranged for me to be taken into the care of another Dominant, who would most likely temporarily move me in with him.


My point about right now was for medical conditions. Sometimes in the ER a decision has to be made right now and if the person who came in with the patient won't or can't make it, then the surgon will do it because it has to be done. That decision may not be the one the patient would have wanted and the ER you are in may not have a copy of his living will.



I'm an RN in CA so I know how this works here at least... and I can assure you no surgeon is going to *ask* me anything as I am not his wife, not a family member and he has an advance directive in place. The hospital will do what is within its legal scope to do in that situation . These things have been in place for years, his ownership of me didn't change that. He is an attorney, he knows how to take care of these things. I call his proxy and his attorney. I don't need to do anything else and don't have the legal authority too.

I don't see this as an issue of submission so not sure what the "twue sub" stuff is about. This is a legal matter, that has nothing to do with being a good or true or anything else sub. It has everything to do with what legal provisions and protections the owner *wants* for himself. I can't step in and run his household, or pay a bill or anything else. I have no legal standing to do so, he has an advance directive and the person who will have POA knows what to do.



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 12:59:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

I'm an RN in CA so I know how this works here at least... and I can assure you no surgeon is going to *ask* me anything as I am not his wife, not a family member and he has an advance directive in place. The hospital will do what is within its legal scope to do in that situation . These things have been in place for years, his ownership of me didn't change that. He is an attorney, he knows how to take care of these things. I call his proxy and his attorney. I don't need to do anything else and don't have the legal authority too.



That depends on the relationship. While you are not married, others are. My concern was, again, if the proxy could not be contacted within enough time. Not everyone answers their phone 24/7.

The comment about "twue" was a complete joke by the way.



BeingChewsie -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 1:32:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

I'm an RN in CA so I know how this works here at least... and I can assure you no surgeon is going to *ask* me anything as I am not his wife, not a family member and he has an advance directive in place. The hospital will do what is within its legal scope to do in that situation . These things have been in place for years, his ownership of me didn't change that. He is an attorney, he knows how to take care of these things. I call his proxy and his attorney. I don't need to do anything else and don't have the legal authority too.



That depends on the relationship. While you are not married, others are. My concern was, again, if the proxy could not be contacted within enough time. Not everyone answers their phone 24/7.

The comment about "twue" was a complete joke by the way.


OK Gotcha on the joke but that was my point, for people who are married the partner would/could make the decision. In my owner's case if the proxy could not be reached the hospital would do what was within its legal scope to do in such a situation. It happens, they have a protocol and procedure they follow. My owner is aware of what their options are. I'm not the proxy but even if I was, your position assumes I would be with him or that I would be at the phone 24/7...what would they do if they couldn't get a hold of me if I was the proxy? See what I mean? It really doesn't matter who the proxy is in that case. They follow their protocol.



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 1:37:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

OK Gotcha on the joke but that was my point, for people who are married the partner would/could make the decision. In my owner's case if the proxy could not be reached the hospital would do what was within its legal scope to do in such a situation. It happens, they have a protocol and procedure they follow. My owner is aware of what their options are. I'm not the proxy but even if I was, your position assumes I would be with him or that I would be at the phone 24/7...what would they do if they couldn't get a hold of me if I was the proxy? See what I mean? It really doesn't matter who the proxy is in that case. They follow their protocol.


I see what you mean but in my experience with doctors and ERs having someone there who is actively trying to get the patients wishes followed will help, even if not as much as you would like.

As for married - it wouldn't matter if the partner still refused to make a decision because she was his slave.



Ghostfalcon -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 1:54:50 PM)

Okay far be from me to put my foot back in.... but hey I'm good at digging holes for myself - so good Starbucks has leased space and they are building condo's now in my hole. I've been told before that the idea of when you dig a hole its not to go 'hell, lets see how deep we can make it'.

Anyway humour aside.

I'm wondering if some people are missing the forest for the tree's.

For some people - especially in very deep submissive relationships - handing over financial control is required for them to meet what they need out of a relationship.

However that doesn't change the nature of what has been discussed - If your partner (or in this case master/mistress) has a living will, has told you want to do in an emergency and given you instructions on what to do - haven't they involved you in the finances? You know that they have made provisions for you in the future and have informed you of them. They may not have informed you of all the details however they do show an acceptance that they have a responsibility to you and have informed you of courses of action.

Yes a cynic would argue are you sure they are truthful - however I have to say that if they are going to the extent of lying to you about to the point of explaining possible issues in the future -  they could probably con you anyway - and there are just some nasty people in the world.

I would also state that the probability is that someone who has made all those provisions for you and is willing to discuss how you will be taken care of is a good sign of a healthy mental, emotional and financial relationship. They are the ones unlikely to be defrauding you - however I do say 'unlikely'.

For myself - I feel if I can't provide for someone, I should be concerned about taking responsibility for them in my house in the first place, however that is not how everyone feels - I would like to think that for the good ones who are willing to take on the financial responsibilities around the individual they do.

A great many of those who appear to disagree seem to be those who are in solid relationships where they have a great deal of trust - not at the stage of starting the relationship - I believe its essential for those entering relationships to be more involved in a financial discussions. Once you can establish that you can trust your partner in this aspect, if you choose to hand over your finances because in order to be happy that is something you feel you need to do, then you have the liberty to do that - I am not debating whether thats right or wrong - I am commenting that it should be done with your eyes open. 

I would argue the more money you have when you enter the relationship - the more caution you should take. Just as in any relationship. Also I would point out that the new bankruptcy laws in force are far more damaging than they used to be - and some options which used to be available aren't anymore.

I believe in almost every relationship as time progresses and your relationship deepens - you are going to trust your partner more to behave responsibly for you just as the ability for them to take advantage of you grows - thats a human condition. However at the start of a lifestyle relationship I wouldn't let the glow of your feelings blind you to the fact that food and shelter are human necessities.

Because I try to be fair - I'd like to make a point to say that it is possible for the financial issues and dishonesty to run both ways in a lifestyle relationship. Both parties in a relationship need to be careful. Though most of the cases I personally am aware of involve the Master/Mistress who has taken advantage - I am sure that is not always the case.



BeingChewsie -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 2:11:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

OK Gotcha on the joke but that was my point, for people who are married the partner would/could make the decision. In my owner's case if the proxy could not be reached the hospital would do what was within its legal scope to do in such a situation. It happens, they have a protocol and procedure they follow. My owner is aware of what their options are. I'm not the proxy but even if I was, your position assumes I would be with him or that I would be at the phone 24/7...what would they do if they couldn't get a hold of me if I was the proxy? See what I mean? It really doesn't matter who the proxy is in that case. They follow their protocol.


I see what you mean but in my experience with doctors and ERs having someone there who is actively trying to get the patients wishes followed will help, even if not as much as you would like.

As for married - it wouldn't matter if the partner still refused to make a decision because she was his slave.


I agree, I never said it wouldn't matter if she refused but had power to the make the decisions and was allowed to her by her owner. I'm discussing that in my case I have neither the legal authority(not his wife or his medical proxy) or the permission, but those issues have been taken care of by him.

I would be actively trying to get the patients wishes followed, which would be for the hospital to follow their protocol with someone who has an advance directive in place. It isn't my decision to make, he has already made the decisions and placed them in a living will and named a person with POA. Millions of people have them, this is nothing new or surprising to ER staff.



AquaticSub -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 2:16:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie


I would be actively trying to get the patients wishes followed, which would be for the hospital to follow their protocol with someone who has an advance directive in place. It isn't my decision to make, he has already made the decisions and placed them in a living will and named a person with POA. Millions of people have them, this is nothing new or surprising to ER staff.



As far as I'm aware a living will won't do you much good if you are in a place that doesn't have a copy (say you were out of town) and you don't either.

I'm not saying that a sub or slave should make a decision contrary to their owner's wishes, but that I would think a sub/slave would take an active role in trying to get their owner's desires done, and if needed, to make a decision based on what they know of their owner's desires.



kyraofMists -> RE: Relationship and Finance (a bit of a rant) (6/8/2007 2:42:54 PM)

A topic that is very important to our family and is also very important to me on a work level.  I work in the Fraud/Risk department and many of our clients are financial institutions.  Most times if someone is a victim of financial fraud or identity theft it is someone they know who has robbed them. 

From a relationship perspective it is extremely important to him to make sure that I am protected in the event that something were to happen to him and alandra.  Alandra is his legal wife so she is protected if something happens to him and she would make sure that I was taken care of, but if something happened to them both he is taking steps to ensure that I am protected.

In our house he makes the decisions on how the money is spent.  He gives alandra and I instructions and we are required to carry them out.  On paper, the money I have earned is still in my name and will remain that way.  He does not need to be in possession of it to know that he has the authority over how it is spent.

Wills, living wills, power of attorney, retirement plans, investments, funeral arrangments etc are all things that we discuss and are important to us.

Knight's kyra 



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