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Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 5:12:03 PM   
onmykneesforhim


Posts: 112
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline 		Hi,
Im in Baltimore, near the harbour. I have actaully seen the effects of global warming yesturday and unit this incident, I had never thought much about it.is very scarey. There ws a stentch in the air from so many dead fish. The patrols were scooping them out by the bucket fulls. One of my friends had tryed to explain the one degree rise that made the algea grow at an excelerated rate.
Anyway, I had never really thought *it* was a real threat, until I saw for my self.
Its really something that cant be stopped, is it?
omk

< Message edited by onmykneesforhim -- 6/7/2007 5:13:16 PM >
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 6:18:11 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		There are things we can do now to slow the acceleration, and if we're very prudent about emissions, then over time the warming trend will reverse itself.  Greenhouse gases released into the atmosphere today will remain there for years, but not forever.

And to all the motherfuckers who want to turn this into yet another "I don't believe in global warming it's a goddamned hoax I mean all those evil scientists I hate them HATE them I tell you" thread--well, be my guest.

(in reply to onmykneesforhim)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 6:35:33 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		     The climate has been cooling and warming on this planet long before we came along.  We could embrace every extremist demand out there and it wouldn't change shit.  "Global Warming" is just a nifty catch-phrase to turn a political advantage out of it from people who want the entire third world to starve and die of AIDS when they trash the economies of the developed world.

    And if anybody decides they want to throw in a bunch of numbers to prove I'm full of shit, make sure you ask them what a statistical sample of "one" is worth.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 6:47:45 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The climate has been cooling and warming on this planet long before we came along. We could embrace every extremist demand out there and it wouldn't change shit. "Global Warming" is just a nifty catch-phrase to turn a political advantage out of it from people who want the entire third world to starve and die of AIDS when they trash the economies of the developed world.

And if anybody decides they want to throw in a bunch of numbers to prove I'm full of shit, make sure you ask them what a statistical sample of "one" is worth.



Actually, Ask:

"What is your specific education and experience in Climatology?"

and

"Where's your fucking data".

EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST BULLSHIT COMMENTARY FROM PEOPLE WITH BIG FUCKING MOUTHS AND TINY FUCKING BRAINS.

or don't they even TRY to teach the fucking scientific fucking method anymore?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/7/2007 6:48:24 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 6:52:44 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		       Might as well ask what their degree in Theology is...  God forbid you simply look at the history of the planet locked in the rocks....

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 7:04:26 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     The climate has been cooling and warming on this planet long before we came along.  We could embrace every extremist demand out there and it wouldn't change shit.  "Global Warming" is just a nifty catch-phrase to turn a political advantage out of it from people who want the entire third world to starve and die of AIDS when they trash the economies of the developed world.

    And if anybody decides they want to throw in a bunch of numbers to prove I'm full of shit, make sure you ask them what a statistical sample of "one" is worth.


The world has gone through cycles of warming and cooling, and as I understand it, the approximate percentages of various chemicals which comprise air (Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc) had, through a bunch of these cycles, remained fairly constant.

Today the air is comprised of chemicals in significantly different proportions than at any time back to which sampling can test, and scientifically reliable testing can reach back through at least a couple of ice ages.

It seems intuitive to me that if gross changes in the chemical makeup of an atmosphere occur, meteorological (weather) changes will result on the planet in question--whether or not that planet would otherwise undergo cyclic changes. I mean wouldn't it be odd if two planets with significantly different sorts of atmospheres had ientical weather patterns?

My question to Theheretic is: how is it that conserving and maximizing the utility of limited resources, and trying to address the increased proportion of Carbon Dioxide in the air will result in the entire third world getting AIDS and starving to death?

Some of the sorts of sustainable, decentralized energy sources which are resulting from early efforts to address these problems seem tailor made to improve the economies and lifestyles of third world people.

Another question is: how will the elimination of wasted material and energy at various points in the cycle of production trash the economies of developed nations?

It seems to me that given two otherwise similar economic systems, the one which produces less waste will accordingly produce more wealth.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 7:09:41 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Microwave Beamed Solar Satellites and Ground Stations provide all the energy any planet requires.

We've already spend MORE in Iraq than the 300 Billion dollars required to break the oil addiction.

But you know.... Junkies. You can't reason with them....



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Noah)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 8:20:15 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		............... pigs flew this week ................ Bush acknowledged human contribution to climate change.....................

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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 8:29:51 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

............... pigs flew this week ................ Bush acknowledged human contribution to climate change.....................


If Bush believes in it you *KNOW* it's junk science!
Bush, the Left's new play buddy.

On my knees, go to www.theguyfromboston
Go into the videos and watch the one about global warming.
This guy knows his stuff on global warming!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/7/2007 8:32:46 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: Global warming?? - 6/7/2007 8:43:28 PM   
HaveRopeWillBind


Posts: 514
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    The climate has been cooling and warming on this planet long before we came along.  ...


It's not that the climate is cycling, it's the rate of change that is alarming. The Earth is currently warming at a faster rate than any time in it's determinable history.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 4:50:08 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		The opening page clearly shows high scientific integrity and reasoned balanced clear thinking.......

Go look on some pages where the actual facts are put frward and conclusions explained ....

Then think in turns of of probabilities rather than absolutes.


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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 5:21:25 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    The climate has been cooling and warming on this planet long before we came along.  We could embrace every extremist demand out there and it wouldn't change shit.  "Global Warming" is just a nifty catch-phrase to turn a political advantage out of it from people who want the entire third world to starve and die of AIDS when they trash the economies of the developed world.



I think its a scam to get the Dutch to part with their money and spend billions on flood defences they don't need. Hmm Maybe it is a scam by the Dutch government to hike Dutch taxes, using the said need for flood defences as an excuse.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 5:43:49 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

The opening page clearly shows high scientific integrity and reasoned balanced clear thinking.......

Go look on some pages where the actual facts are put frward and conclusions explained ....

Then think in turns of of probabilities rather than absolutes.





HOW ABOUT THIS:

We have TWO paths: (A) and (B)

We know that following either will cost a huge sum of money.

We know that ONE of them is not the correct path to follow.

What do you do?

1) Follow (A), and perhaps go the wrong path.

2) Follow (B), and perhaps go the wrong path.

3) Nothing, which is as bad as going the wrong path.

or

4) SPEND THE MONEY TO GATHER DATA(1), and establish what's happening, THEN follow the right path.

It's a no-brainer folks.

The people arguing FOR *or* AGAINST "Global Warming" got no brain.




Footnote 1: Computer Models are not Data -- Satellites profiling atmospheric temperature from below sea-surface to the edge of space are Data. Go tell Bush to stop pissing away money and build some.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 5:52:27 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Following the policies needed should global warming be a fact would be beneficial for everyone in the long term even if there isn't any global warming. Well, maybe not beneficial for oil men.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 5:56:11 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Following the policies needed should global warming be a fact would be beneficial for everyone in the long term even if there isn't any global warming. Well, maybe not beneficial for oil men.


That makes the assumption that we have the resources to waste.

I disagree, and point to every single child who went hungry to any degree YESTERDAY, either right here in major US cities, and rural populations, or worldwide.

We *don't* have the money to waste ACTING unwisely. We *do* have the money spent to do the basic research to determine the correct course.

OR

If you could sequester the excess CO2 by just dumping tons of iron filings in the sea, won't you feel really dumb for wasting time and money dicking around wasting money otherwise.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 6:42:53 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Following the policies needed should global warming be a fact would be beneficial for everyone in the long term even if there isn't any global warming. Well, maybe not beneficial for oil men.


That makes the assumption that we have the resources to waste.



That is just the point, THE WEST WASTES an endless amount of resources! A little self discipline in the west would go a long way to saving resources and improving the environment without spending a penny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I disagree, and point to every single child who went hungry to any degree YESTERDAY, either right here in major US cities, and rural populations, or worldwide.



The world already has enough food to feed everyone, it is a question of organisation. If there are any children going hungry in the USA or any other western country, it is not the lack of food that is the problem but the selfishness and lack of political will to solve the problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


We *don't* have the money to waste ACTING unwisely. We *do* have the money spent to do the basic research to determine the correct course.

OR

If you could sequester the excess CO2 by just dumping tons of iron filings in the sea, won't you feel really dumb for wasting time and money dicking around wasting money otherwise.



There has been enough reports showing that it would cost the world economy 1% of its total to fix the problem of global warming. If we wait too long it will cost 20%+.  I really don't know what the sceptics are arguing about or are they really so selfish that they are willing to let their children and their grandchildren inherit a world full of the tragic consequences of climate chage?

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 3:38:35 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline


HOW ABOUT THIS:

We have TWO paths: (A) and (B)

We know that following either will cost a huge sum of money.

We know that ONE of them is not the correct path to follow.

What do you do?

1) Follow (A), and perhaps go the wrong path.

2) Follow (B), and perhaps go the wrong path.

3) Nothing, which is as bad as going the wrong path.

or

4) SPEND THE MONEY TO GATHER DATA(1), and establish what's happening, THEN follow the right path.

It's a no-brainer folks. - lets diagnos  that you have the bubonic plague based upon the final confirmation that you have it - i.e. you are dead and the autopsy confirms this !!!!! - lovely logic.

The people arguing FOR *or* AGAINST "Global Warming" got no brain.






farglebargle, if you have any insurance policies then your argument above is destroyed.

You take out insurance for protection from what may within a certain degree of possibility impact you. The current understanding of human impact climate change equates to sufficient reason to spend "less money than is currently spent on marketing" , by the "World Incorporated", to mitigate against the impact of a foreseable event that will remove esential requirements to keep World Incorporated Functioning, at required efficiencies.

If you don't have any insurance policies at all, for anything you do or own, ...... then perhaps you are so lucky or stupid that I can believe you .  : )  
PS don't travel to far because you could fall off the edge of the world. ......  !!!   



[/quote]

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 5:47:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You don't have the data to prove that your hypothesis is correct. If you *do* have the data, I wanna see it.

But you don't.

That's the whole problem with this. It's become a political pissing match, ( which actually just serves to distract from the High Crimes ) and NEITHER SIDE has a fucking clue.

So, learn some Climatology, and study the extant literature, and then tell me what you've learned.

Here's a lead for you to follow up on. "How is the entire temperature profile of the earth measured, from below sea level, to the top of the atmosphere, and what is the resolution of that measurement, if any?"

We *have* the resources to actually answer that question.

Now wonder why the hell we haven't built the satellites to answer it?

"Armageddon" is a dumb fucking political policy to underlie your presidency on, but it's worked for him so far.

Having a Plan B, when you're sure the world's going to end, and you'll Ascend, makes you look like you don't have faith.

How is that kind of religious fanaticism different from any random Mullah?







_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 7:01:07 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

You don't have the data to prove that your hypothesis is correct. If you *do* have the data, I wanna see it.But you don't.  - you are correct I don't. however I also do not have data to prove planes fly, some bacteria cause illness and asbestos causes cancer, on balance of evidence from research, epidemiological studies, and current science.... they do. Rome BC Pleny the younger - don't buy slves from asbestos mines they die young, Leonardo Da Vinci - drawings of flight, "middle ages bad air causes disease" Wright Brothers, 1970s OSHA, Flemming and antibiotics, at what point will you decide .....................  others have the best available evidence and better knowledge to make a consensus view  - what else do the top scientists from the main countries on the planet earth agree about ............... farglebargle, you may be bright but that bright................. nope. see below

That's the whole problem with this. It's become a political pissing match, ( which actually just serves to distract from the High Crimes ) and NEITHER SIDE has a fucking clue. - it was political when Bush and others decided not to act for political belief reasons. Now it has gone beyond politics it has entered main stream business thinking. Invest and act now or experience greater losses later. Even the oil industries longterm profit forcasts assume climate change and human induced climate change are the most logical business investment position to take

So, learn some Climatology, and study the extant literature, and then tell me what you've learned.- that you have been selective on your reading, that people like Al Gore are also selective, that all the issues like "Mars warming up" have been included in the most recent IPCC assessments, that the IPCC assessments are very conservative in approach, that the Stern Report argued the economics of risk not the politics of belief over pseudo science, that detractors like Lumberg and Bush are having to change their view .........  

Here's a lead for you to follow up on. "How is the entire temperature profile of the earth measured, from below sea level, to the top of the atmosphere, and what is the resolution of that measurement, if any?" like any sample you do not measure constantly, everything, you take samples, produce a hypothesis, challenge it and peer review your conclusions. And science unlike religeon does not say it is 100% correct it says this is the best available conclusion on the available data.

"The Science of Climate Change
A joint statement issued by the Australian Academy of Sciences, Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts, Brazilian Academy of Sciences, Royal Society of Canada, Caribbean Academy of Sciences, Chinese Academy of Sciences, French Academy of Sciences, German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina, Indian National Science Academy, Indonesian Academy of Sciences, Royal Irish Academy, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy), Academy of Sciences Malaysia, Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, Turkish Academy of Sciences, and Royal Society (UK).
The work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) represents the consensus of the international scientific community on climate change science. We recognize the IPCC as the world's most reliable source of information on climate change and its causes, and we endorse its method of achieving this consensus. Despite increasing consensus on the science underpinning predictions of global climate change, doubts have been expressed recently about the need to mitigate the risks posed by global climate change. We do not consider such doubts justified.

Check out the web pages of any of the world leading scientific acadamies (the top one in each country)

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Global warming?? - 6/8/2007 7:12:38 PM   
onmykneesforhim


Posts: 112
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac



SNIP SNIP......
as the world's most reliable source of information on climate change and its causes, and we endorse its method of achieving this consensus. Despite increasing consensus on the science underpinning predictions of global climate change, doubts have been expressed recently about the need to mitigate the risks posed by global climate change. We do not consider such doubts justified.

Check out the web pages of any of the world leading scientific acadamies (the top one in each country)



My eyes and my brain are my most realiable source of infromation when it comes to what I have seen.
  Im not a little girl, so I have seen a lot of strange and also wonderful things. But what I saw, with the death and smell of the fish in my own harbour, with my own eyes null and voids all the scientific and medical studies in this universe.  
  I really dont understand why we are not doing something about this if it can be done.
*The sight is still in my mind, its like a living nightmare*
omk

(in reply to Dtesmoac)
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