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caitlyn -> We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 4:38:32 AM)
As someone relatively new to politics, it seems to me that everyone is willing to settle. President Bush is stupid, or Custer, or anachimp'whatever ... Liberals are pro-terrorist, weak, communist, stupid ... You get the idea that the truth is too difficult to face ... if those damn trees would just get out of the way, we could see the forrest. You get the idea that Americans are generally so arrogant, that they can't accept that the wool is being pulled over their eyes ... worse still, it's wool off their own back, because "We" are really "We the Sheeple." It might be time to consider that if President Bush is so stupid, then what are you? He has been fighting his war with your money for about five years now. He has moved the country in the direction he wanted it to go. Do you really think he cares about public opinion? I'm watching news pundits this morning, and they are talking about the immigration bill, and what a bitter blow this is for the President. Yeah ... whatever ... he never wanted the fucking thing in the first place. His Texas buddies are making a killing off illegals. This is the ultimate wool over our eyes ... the President gets what he wanted all along, which is no bill at all ... and gets to make everyone else look like obstructionists. Then we have "liberals", who have an attack so generalized, that we had to invent a generic name, to categorize them all. They are after your money ... they are after your money ... they want to give it to the poor ... they don't believe in hard work ... they are influenced by those "bad people", homosexuals, feminists, blacks and hispanics, and people too stupid to understand a voting ballot. Liberals hate America, because Harry Reid says we lost the war, and Nancy Pelosi went to Damascus. Stupid Liberals! Who do you think a statement like, "the war is lost" appeals to? Could it be "retro America" reliving the glory days, when we forced the government to leave Vietnam. I'm wearing my hugger bell bottoms and half top ... how about you? Nancy to Damascus ... Jane to N. Vietnam ... Jane posing with a anti-aircraft gun ... Nancy wearing an almost burka. Who'd a thunk it! We have some really good choices for President right now, from both parties. Most of them have about 1% support. They have so little support, because We the Sheeple, are so arrogant, that we can't give the devil his due, and end up voting for anyone, that isn't someone. Rudy, Mitt, and the new kid, with the "I'm a Fredneck" slogan ... Hillary, Barak, Edwards, Al "I really won" ... does anyone really think they are going to change anything? It will be OK though, because at least half of We the Sheeple will be able to call them stupid for at least four more years.

LadyEllen -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:04:04 AM)
Caitlyn - youre young, you have a lot to learn about how things get done I suspect. I dont say that to belittle you by the way, because you often post some very valuable contributions and are obviously intelligent. That youre questioning all these goings on speaks volumes on that latter subject, because most will never even suspect what really goes on and fewer will investigate it and of that few, a small proportion at best will ever comprehend it enough to be able to participate with any awareness. None ever stop learning about it. The whole system works by manipulation - but you know that already I'm sure. The people are manipulated, the manipulators manipulate one another, all with their own aims and agendas in mind. The key to politics is in identifying weakness in others, the things they lack and want, and in being able to exploit that to get what one wants, without anyone knowing that in fulfilling others' aims, one benefits oneself and one's own aims far more. Everything is dark but for what one wants others to see, and in this its often necessary to make statements and representations which appear genuine but which are purely a smoke screen behind which the real business is being conducted between apparent friends as well as rivals. The same principles apply in the board rooms of every company. Yes, it stinks. But thats the way its been not just for the last decade or even the last century, but throughout all human civilisation. The problem is that people wont do what you want them to do of their own volition, so by some means or another you have to make them do what you want them to do, and preferably without them realising it. E

slaveluci -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:07:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn It might be time to consider that if President Bush is so stupid, then what are you? He has been fighting his war with your money for about five years now. He has moved the country in the direction he wanted it to go Yeah and I don't like it so I'm just going to call up to the White House and demand it stop[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image]. President Bush IS stupid and he has taken this country in directions he never should have but what can we as individuals do other than what some of us already do (get involved at our local level, write letters, etc.)? I resent the implication that I'm of the same mind or on the same moral level as Bush simply because I "allow" him to "fight this war" with our money. What do you seriously think individual citizens can do? We have some really good choices for President right now, from both parties. Most of them have about 1% support. They have so little support, because We the Sheeple, are so arrogant, that we can't give the devil his due, and end up voting for anyone, that isn't someone. Speak for yourself[:)]. I agree there are lots of "sheeple" but I am definitely not part of the group. To me, "sheeple" are the ones who blindly follow and believe in their government, defending it's actions no matter how idiotic they are. Seeing the problems and doing what is within your own limited power to do is not being one of the "sheeple." Just because I, as a citizen, am basically helpless to influence the actions of my government does not mean I agree with or back them. There's a big difference there. And as far as this 1% support business, I don't remember anyone asking me who I support. It's the same nonsense every 4 years. Several good candidates appear, the media basically tells us that none of the "good" ones have any support, people swallow it and think if they support their real choice it will be a waste, and thus they fall by the wayside. How can we as individuals cause this huge tidalwave of support for the candidate we really like? Perhaps we can on a local level, but again that's not going to translate to real influence. I disagree with the idea that the good candidates have so little support because of arrogance. I think it's because people who really do support them just don't have any voice. Rudy, Mitt, and the new kid, with the "I'm a Fredneck" slogan ... Hillary, Barak, Edwards, Al "I really won" ... does anyone really think they are going to change anything? I don't think most politicians are going to change anything...at least not for the better. But, I still attempt to seek out candidates for local, state, and national offices that I believe will do his/her best. I work on a grassroots level to make a difference, campaign for ones I truly believe in, etc. It has NEVER made a real difference yet I continue to do so. It will be OK though, because at least half of We the Sheeple will be able to call them stupid for at least four more years. Would that I didn't need to call them stupid but, if the past is any indicator of the future (and it IS), then "my" candidate will never be elected and I'll be stuck being represented by a President I don't support, didn't vote in, and who will do things I find morally reprehensible. And then someone will come along and call me part of the arrogant sheeple because I didn't support someone better[;)].............slave luci

farglebargle -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:38:23 AM)
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. Emma Goldman

meatcleaver -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:42:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. Emma Goldman So true. If people really voted to change the economic status quo, there would be troops on the street within 24 hours. As the British poltician Tony Benn pointed out, every meaningful reform is won on the streets first before the politicians claim it was their idea in the first place and rubber stamp it in the legislature. EDIT. I profer the current climate change fiasco. The politicians are way way way behind of on this issue because they are in the pay of the special interest groups ie. corporations and the rich who think they will lose out if meaningful policies were followed.

farglebargle -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:45:12 AM)
Bobby Kennedy may be the last example of someone with Public Support and Media Support who could have rocked the boat enough to actually change the status quo.

caitlyn -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:45:14 AM)
President Bush took the country in the direction he and his wanted it to go. You didn't want it that way, and neither did I ... but does that make him "stupid?" Go ahead, think that way if you wish. See the opposition as "stupid" if you wish ... but the bottom line ... you can't do that, and not be sheeple. You might resent that ... it is, what it is. What can a single person do? How about admit that disrespecting and underestimating the opposition (as in, thinking they are just stupid), is a clear path to allowing them to kick our ass, again, and again, and again. The Republicans will nominate the guy that will win, instead of the guy that is the best choice ... because they are sheeple, and can't possibly let that "stupid" Democrat win. The Democrats will select the guy/girl that will win, instead of the guy/girl that is the best choice ... because they are sheeple and can't possibly let that "stupid" Republican win. The path to change, is to admit that change begins at home. If you are a Democrat (for example), you might just have to work to nominate someone that will be good for the country ... instead of the guy that will "beat those other guys." This might lead to several election defeats ... but eventually the point will get through ... we are no longer interrested in just winning for our party ... we are interrested in winning for the country. Look, the nation isn't going to fall apart over the NeoCon's war in Iraq. It's a nice talking point, "they are destroying the country, destroying the military, destroying our standing in the world" ... but the reality of history teaches that it would take much more to bring the strong down. Vietnam was ten times the "disaster" of Iraq. Ten years later, we gutted out biggest rival. Point ... even many more years of the same that we have now, will not destroy us ... the practical might say that it's a small price to pay, in order to give the people a real choice. The problem we have now, is that we are unwilling to force change at home, and instead, are only willing to force change on "those other guys" ... change that we will never get. I know this is an "in everyone's face" post. If there was a way to make the point, and be more tactful, I would have made that choice. I rarely start threads, and am not looking to offend anyone, but at some point, the point just needs to be made, in my view. Apologies in advance, to anyone this offends.

farglebargle -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn President Bush took the country in the direction he and his wanted it to go. You didn't want it that way, and neither did I ... but does that make him "stupid?" No, being barely literate makes him stupid. Stupid IS as Stupid Does, and putting aside "SHOULD the US invade Iraq", everyone without their own agenda knew that the US couldn't deal with Post Invasion Iraq following the invasion. To a great credit, this is because our Elite Troops SUCK as Occupation Police. Says something about the CiC, that they're so ignorant of how the military functions to have missed that little nugget of wisdom, too. Of course, anyone who was literate, AND payed attention during history would have understood this. So, what is it. Did he disregard the long term National Security of the US to further his own Agenda, committing at least ONE chargeable felony along the way, or is he just fucking dumb?

caitlyn -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 5:58:42 AM)
I'm sorry fargle, I think you are wrong. President Bush is a front man. At the time, everyone wanted a "common man" ... isn't it true that he was actually called "folksy?" Iraq is exactly what they want it to be ... it will go on, and on, and on ... which is exactly what they want. It makes you feel good to think that they were just fools who got up involved in a war we can't win. It makes you feel superior to think you are in the know. You want to talk history? How many historical figures put small numbers of troops in harms way, with obvious defeat, to stir a nation to war ... to rally the cause, to convince the people, that danger was around each corner?

farglebargle -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 6:16:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn I'm sorry fargle, I think you are wrong. President Bush is a front man. At the time, everyone wanted a "common man" ... isn't it true that he was actually called "folksy?" Iraq is exactly what they want it to be ... it will go on, and on, and on ... which is exactly what they want. It makes you feel good to think that they were just fools who got up involved in a war we can't win. It makes you feel superior to think you are in the know. You want to talk history? How many historical figures put small numbers of troops in harms way, with obvious defeat, to stir a nation to war ... to rally the cause, to convince the people, that danger was around each corner? Actually, I subscribe to the Felon hypothesis. Being an Idiot is his cover story. It's all SOP for the Junkie/Alkie running a con.

caitlyn -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 6:18:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Caitlyn - youre young, you have a lot to learn about how things get done I suspect. LadyEllen ... There are few on this board who's contribution I value more, but in this instance, I'm going to respectfuly not agree.[:D] The only thing I want to know about "how things get done" is to learn how to make it go away. The truth as I see it, is going to be spoken, even if it makes me a target, and even if it makes me look young and foolish. You made a post not long ago, where you said the war was lost. That has been said many times, by many people. I wanted to say something at the time, but backed away. You know, President Bush lied about many things to get in this war ... what good does it do to lie about the outcome? Don't you think this is exactly the sort of war they want? They are making a killing. The tanks break down, so we need to buy more. The men need more armor, so we need to buy more. I'm sorry if this is blunt, but we aren't losing this war ... far from it. We are winning the war that the NeoCons want, one that will go on, and on, and on. We will eventually leave "in shame" and within a few years, the nation will be so bent on "reestablishing America" that we will spend a fortune of the peasant's money, to make the rich, more rich. By the way ... I'm one of the peasants. In a few years, I will be a more wealthy peasant, which means they can steal more of my money. Thank you for the response. [:D]

LadyEllen -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 6:29:52 AM)
Caitlyn - the war is lost, but you certainly have a point, and it goes back to my first post. Youre catching on very quickly. We'd all like the BS of this world to go away, but human nature dictates that this will never be achieved because there is always someone ready to take advantage. "Do unto others......" is a fine and noble philosophy, but the truth is that one ends up doing unto others before they do it unto you, after a while of being deceived left, right and centre. It is a truly rare find to discover someone who is honestly honourable in all of their dealings, at any level and in any section of society. And regrettably easy if one is honestly honourable to be turned away from such a path by others' deceptions. Thing is, those who might fight the good fight are exactly those who will never be given the opportunity to do so. The successful electoral candidate is not the one who gets the most votes, it is the one who manipulates and is manipulated into a position of getting the most votes. No one acting honestly and honourably will ever get anywhere. E

slaveluci -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 7:45:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn President Bush took the country in the direction he and his wanted it to go. You didn't want it that way, and neither did I ... but does that make him "stupid?" I was merely parroting YOUR word back at you. You said if he is "stupid," what does that make me. I used your word in my reply, simple as that. Go ahead, think that way if you wish. See the opposition as "stupid" if you wish ... but the bottom line ... you can't do that, and not be sheeple. You might resent that ... it is, what it is. I don't generally refer to the "opposition" as anything. I don't consider any group as the "opposition" necessarily. I have always been very vocal about how ignorant I feel it is to attempt to divide all the people in our country into tiny little "us and them," "left and right" groups. I don't see all people who disagree with me as "stupid" at all. As a matter of fact, I take pride in the fact that I can see others' viewpoints and their merits. Calling them the "opposition" doesn't accomplish anything. And I really do think you have a mixed-up definition of "sheeple." It means people who, like sheep, blindly follow without questioning. Referring to someone as "stupid" does not sheeple make, dear. What can a single person do? How about admit that disrespecting and underestimating the opposition (as in, thinking they are just stupid), is a clear path to allowing them to kick our ass, again, and again, and again. Again, that word "opposition." Very futile to see things in those terms, in my opinion. You have apparently disregarded my entire post and chosen to pick out the word "stupid" which was your word that I only used to make my point. Far from "underestimating" Bush and his ilk, I believe them to be quite evil in many ways. I do not "underestimate" their power at all. Look what it has been within their power to do lo these many years. The Republicans will nominate the guy that will win, instead of the guy that is the best choice ... because they are sheeple, and can't possibly let that "stupid" Democrat win. The Democrats will select the guy/girl that will win, instead of the guy/girl that is the best choice ... because they are sheeple and can't possibly let that "stupid" Republican win. I think I can see the point you are trying to make. I consider people sheeple who are so partisan that they refuse to back the best candidate if he/she is of another party than they are. People who identify so strongly with one party/ideology that they refuse to see the "other side's" points. People who blindly support their government no matter how wrong they are. Yes, to me those are sheeple. I have never espoused opinions that would indicate I think like this. The path to change, is to admit that change begins at home. If you are a Democrat (for example), you might just have to work to nominate someone that will be good for the country ... instead of the guy that will "beat those other guys." This might lead to several election defeats ... but eventually the point will get through ... we are no longer interrested in just winning for our party ... we are interrested in winning for the country. Exactly....the same point I'm making. And, in the body of my earlier post, you will read that I do work for change at home. Sitting back and whining and moaning accomplish nothing. All the efforts of me and people like me haven't made great accomplishments either to be honest. We work to change things and just get steam-rolled come election time when the guy we consider the worst candidate wins. But, at least we tried and thus have a right to bitch when it works out in a way we don't like. Point ... even many more years of the same that we have now, will not destroy us ... the practical might say that it's a small price to pay, in order to give the people a real choice. The problem we have now, is that we are unwilling to force change at home, and instead, are only willing to force change on "those other guys" ... change that we will never get. How exactly do you propose we "force" this "change"? You seem to be so idealistic as if to say if we really wanted to change or improve anything, why don't we just go do it? What have you done on this front, I'm curious? I've stated some of the things I've become involved with to attempt to influence my little sphere of the world. Other than rant, what have you accomplished?[;)]............slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 7:47:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn President Bush took the country in the direction he and his wanted it to go. You didn't want it that way, and neither did I ... but does that make him "stupid?" No, being barely literate makes him stupid. Thank you[:D]..........slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 7:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Iraq is exactly what they want it to be ... it will go on, and on, and on ... which is exactly what they want. And "they" would be who?.........luci

caitlyn -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 8:35:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci I was merely parroting YOUR word back at you. You said if he is "stupid," what does that make me. I used your word in my reply, simple as that. ... clip ... How exactly do you propose we "force" this "change"? You seem to be so idealistic as if to say if we really wanted to change or improve anything, why don't we just go do it? What have you done on this front, I'm curious? I've stated some of the things I've become involved with to attempt to influence my little sphere of the world. Other than rant, what have you accomplished?[;)]............slave luci Believe me, I'm not disregarding your points. I started the thread, which I rarely do, because I wanted responses. I do think though, that you somewhat responded to something I never said. I didn't say: You said if he is "stupid," what does that make me. What I said was: It might be time to consider that if President Bush is so stupid, then what are you? Which is clearly both a general, parenthetical, and illustrative question ... the generic you ... as in the generic "We" the people. If I offended you, I apologize directly to you ... and in this, I'm not talking about the generic you. [:D] Moving forward ... forcing change is easier than some might think. The very point idea that we can't do it, is a major contributing factor to why it never happens. But, it has to be change from within. A few quick points. In the last election, Democrats supposedly voted in people that were against the war ... supposedly. But, they also kept a bunch of people that voted for the war, and are full of excuses now. I watched Hillary Clinton in the debate, talking about this being President Bush's war. Ha! She voted for it. Now, she is retracting, spinning, turning circles, and she is the front runner. Apparently, many Democrats think words speak louder than actions. Harry Reid voted for it also ... and now he claims defeat. So, want to have change? Then Democrats, should have kicked out all the Democrats that voted for the war. Sure, that will give the Republicans clear control of Congress, but a)Democrats clean up their own house, b)Democrats send a clear message that actions speak louder than words, c)there is nothing to lose, since "winning Congress" got anti-war Democrats absolutely nothing in the end. If you are a Democrat and want change in Iraq, you have to vote for one of the candidates that voted against the entire mess ... period. If this means that your guy gets killed by a NeoCon in the next election, what have you really lost? Does anyone really believe that Hillary, Obama or Edwards, is going to get us out of Iraq? All they are going to do is get in office, find out how much power and influence they have by keeping us in, and make up reasons to stay. So Democrats get this, and throw out the chance to clean up their own house. Ditto Republicans, and Ron Paul. All these guys standing up and talking about how President Bush mismanaged the war ... what a load of crap. That line came up, exactly two minutes after they decided to run for office. One last point (and I apologize for the long post), look at the death of the immugration reform bill. What a win for the American people!!! It proves that We the People can win, when we work on cleaning our own house ... Democrats telling their Democratic Senators, that this vote will cost them their job ... and Republicans doing the same. They WILL listen, when it's change from within. They will not when it's Republicans calling Democrats stupid, and vice versa.

slaveluci -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 10:12:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn What I said was: It might be time to consider that if President Bush is so stupid, then what are you? Which is clearly both a general, parenthetical, and illustrative question ... the generic you ... as in the generic "We" the people. If I offended you, I apologize directly to you ... and in this, I'm not talking about the generic you. [:D] I know...I was paraphrasing there....you didn't offend me in anyway and so what if you did? There's no guarantee I'll never get offended, esp. on these forums[8D]. Moving forward ... forcing change is easier than some might think. The very point idea that we can't do it, is a major contributing factor to why it never happens. But, it has to be change from within. A few quick points. In the last election, Democrats supposedly voted in people that were against the war ... supposedly. But, they also kept a bunch of people that voted for the war, and are full of excuses now. I watched Hillary Clinton in the debate, talking about this being President Bush's war. Ha! She voted for it. Now, she is retracting, spinning, turning circles, and she is the front runner Yes and she's in good company too as far as retracting, spinning, turning circles. They ALL do that, Democrat or Republican. It's not a partisan thing. Apparently, many Democrats think words speak louder than actions. Harry Reid voted for it also ... and now he claims defeat. Again, the same thing could be said of the Republicans and their leaders. They have nearly ALL lied and waffled. It is not strictly one "side" or the other. So, want to have change? Then Democrats, should have kicked out all the Democrats that voted for the war. Sure, that will give the Republicans clear control of Congress, but a)Democrats clean up their own house, b)Democrats send a clear message that actions speak louder than words, c)there is nothing to lose, since "winning Congress" got anti-war Democrats absolutely nothing in the end. Yes, but people are too concerned with PARTISAN politics to allow this to happen. I agree with the point you're making but as long as people see things in black/white, liberal/conservative, dem/repub we're never going to accomplish this. If you are a Democrat and want change in Iraq, you have to vote for one of the candidates that voted against the entire mess ... period. If this means that your guy gets killed by a NeoCon in the next election, what have you really lost? Does anyone really believe that Hillary, Obama or Edwards, is going to get us out of Iraq? All they are going to do is get in office, find out how much power and influence they have by keeping us in, and make up reasons to stay. Now, you're learning............ Democrats telling their Democratic Senators, that this vote will cost them their job ... and Republicans doing the same And, after all, that IS what most of them are exclusively concerned about in the end. They WILL listen, when it's change from within. They will not when it's Republicans calling Democrats stupid, and vice versa. Agreed. I've often thought that if these are the people who are supposed to be representing us all and they act like the childish, partisan fools that they do, is their any hope? I go back and forth on this. I was once young and idealistic as you are[;)] but have aged and grown more jaded. Not so jaded as to no longer care or try to make a difference, but it's just tiring sometimes because the issues seem too overwhelming. I see your points and I agree. It may help you to work on some of your much-justified frustration to get involved in some political activity in your local area. At least you can do what you are capable of. Good luck...........luci

popeye1250 -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 12:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn I'm sorry fargle, I think you are wrong. President Bush is a front man. At the time, everyone wanted a "common man" ... isn't it true that he was actually called "folksy?" Iraq is exactly what they want it to be ... it will go on, and on, and on ... which is exactly what they want. It makes you feel good to think that they were just fools who got up involved in a war we can't win. It makes you feel superior to think you are in the know. You want to talk history? How many historical figures put small numbers of troops in harms way, with obvious defeat, to stir a nation to war ... to rally the cause, to convince the people, that danger was around each corner? Caitlyn, you don't need to appologise for "offending" anyone! It's not against the law to "offend" anyone. As for "folksy" anyone who goes to Phillips-Exeter Academy and "YALE" is not "folksy" or a "common man." You need to have big money in your family for that! I think Phillips-Exeter costs as much as Harvard. As for me, the more I learn about Ron Paul the more I like him. Every poll I've seen says that "America is headed in the wrong direction." I agree. And one thing we really do need to change is the amount of influence Big Business and "K" street have in Washington. The only "lobbyists" there should be are The American People. As for that "Scamnesty" Bill dieing yesterday it started out behind closed doors. Democracy demands transparency. It was very obvious from the get-go that The American People did not want this "bill." We want that Mexican border sealed and our immigration laws enforced.

caitlyn -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 12:32:16 PM)
See, this is where people have to be Americans first, and want their way second. I think you know that I don't agree with you on immigration. Not by a long shot, and that should be clear by now. It should be equally clear that the vast majority of Americans agree with you, and don't agree with me. So, I put aside the ego of wanting my own way, abide by majority rule ... and give the majority opinion a chance. If you are right, we will know. If not, we will know that too. Thats why, even thought the death of the bill, is death for my views, I still think it's a good day for the people.

popeye1250 -> RE: We the Sheeple (6/8/2007 12:42:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn See, this is where people have to be Americans first, and want their way second. I think you know that I don't agree with you on immigration. Not by a long shot, and that should be clear by now. It should be equally clear that the vast majority of Americans agree with you, and don't agree with me. So, I put aside the ego of wanting my own way, abide by majority rule ... and give the majority opinion a chance. If you are right, we will know. If not, we will know that too. Thats why, even thought the death of the bill, is death for my views, I still think it's a good day for the people. Caitlyn, we are a country of laws. Big Business or anyone else for that matter shouldn't be able to break those laws to benefit themselves. There's a few laws I don't like but I have to obey them.

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