RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things.

RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (Full Version)

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maledave7 -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 5:01:21 AM)
I do enjoy reading what other people have written and what they think. It helps me to have a better understanding of the BDSM life style. I feel that I need to have an open mind to what is possible. I do feel that you will always find people who will disagree with you. I feel that my main concern would be to my Domme. Her thoughts and options about me would be important. I do feel that good manners are important in a person’s life. How you treat others said a lot about who you are.

cjenny -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 6:25:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah quote: ORIGINAL: cjenny FR, not especially well thought out. More of a condensed version of my thoughts. Labels are needed, people need to be able to keep other people in context and labels do that. They can be limiting. Inaccurate. Annoying. But unless we all become clones we will have a need to label & be labeled to find the route through society. Woman, sister, daughter, aunt, geek,friend, submissive. All those & more are what tell others where I stand or where I come from. I'm not so sure we need to keep other people anywhere. I kind of like just letting them be wherever they may be. I could label you a cripple and thereby tell others where you stand or where you come from. Is that what you need to find your route through society? Is it what we need? Hence my letting you know it was a FR heh, it isn't so much what 'I' need but more what others need. As a basic comfort level 'we' tend to automatically label others ie a woman walking with a stroller is 'seen' as a mom or nanny without a word being exchanged. Context... ppl have a need to be able to slot people w/in what it is that they know/understand. Oy I feel like I'm unable to clarify my thoughts still. I took the OP to be indicating that we can employ labels in a gingerly and careful way as tools OR we can have our thinking and indeed our vision limited by over-reliance on them. And I think he was making a lot of sense. The example you gave of a well-rounded and open-ended list of labels serving as a description of yourself operated in a way quite opposed to what the OP seemed to be concerned with: relatively careless, shallow attempts to sum up and close off a person in a single term. This necessity of labeling you talk about isn't clear to me. You meet someone and interact, for moments or for years. Can't you just encounter the person, his words and other actions for what they are and leave it at that? Can you really not find your way through society without categorizing him somehow? I was trying to speak of people in general, that people in general need to be able to catagorise others for their own maneuvering thru life. More pointedly: do you think it impossible that two people could come together and quite naturally inhabit what you and I might call a power exchange dynamic even if they were completely unfamiliar with that label and all other labels for what it is that they are engaged in? Heck yes! I was in that before I knew it had names. I realise I wasn't especially clear but that's why I used it as an FR lol. I still believe that humans automatically label others as a way of socializing and sharing such a diverse world. Comfort level.. so many are most comfortable around 'their own kind'. That doesn't mean the label is right, only that it is given. Sort of a first impression thing.. many right away label someone as to a certain socio-economic level from speech patterns, dress or anything that the brain can grab onto. I am not speaking of any particular individuals, I am speaking of people in a general sense. That they need to know what slot someone fits into so that they know how to interact. Is that any clearer than my middle of the night post? ( I really shouldn't do fast replies LOL)

eyesopened -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 6:51:20 AM)
i enjoyed reading this post very much. Human beings are both simple and complex. When i read folks saying they don't care what others think of them i smell a little manure around that statement because we are social animals and we DO care what others think. Maybe not care enough to allow it to hurt us but we do care. And we also need names and lables for our own self-preservation. We need to see some food as yummy and know some is poison or that some just kicks up too much acid reflux but we still need lables and judgements, we need to make good judgements in order to make good choices. On the other hand, to not be able to see that the food we detest or which causes stomach pain in me could be just delicious to others is downright stupid. To eat that food anyway just because everyone else does and then suffer for it is also stupid. Maybe it all boils down to there being a lid for every pot and to celebrate our differences and celebrate more when we find that perfect fit.

dawntreader -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 7:00:05 AM)
Well said Whip [sm=applause.gif] A Gorean slave summed up my identity (unknowingly) when she posted these words on becoming a slave. She said "just exhale and be". This resonates with my very core - i love it! No box, no label and no parameters....just "being" who you are designed by the Universe to be[:)]

octavia -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 7:56:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader Well said Whip [sm=applause.gif] A Gorean slave summed up my identity (unknowingly) when she posted these words on becoming a slave. She said "just exhale and be". This resonates with my very core - i love it! No box, no label and no parameters....just "being" who you are designed by the Universe to be[:)] Absolutely Dawntreader. If you notice though, you used lables to help me understand what you were talking about. . You labled the original author a "Gorean slave" and provide that the words where said in context to the lable "slave". Had you not provided those points of reference, we might assume you were refering to the fact that your so damn sexy, [;)] or a musician, because of the context we can grab from your picture. Lables are an important tool we use to communicate. The human brain forms what are called templates based on first exprieences. For every experience after that initial one, our brain strives to put them into context AS RELATES to that very first one. It is how we define our world and how lables are useful. This is a good way to understand how as individuals we can define the same things so differently. We are not all basing our definitions on an universals, only our own unique experience. For example: The very first time a baby enounters a flower, he will see it, smell it, eat it, crush it, lick it. step on it.... he is purpose driven here, he is forming a template in his brain called "flower". There is your lable. Is the lable the item? No, the lable is exactly that, the lable our toddler is going to use to pull up that file later when needed again. Next time you hand baby another flower, but this time it's blue and not pink, he will explore it to find out if he can tuck it away in the same file or if he needs to create a new one. Eventually when you hand him a flower, he may only look at it and decide it needs to go into the file flower. Perhaps this is what happens to us sometimes when we get super efficient in our lableing of others, we get overconfident as to what we think we will find on exploration and choose not to delve farther into the actually person, choosing to rely on our template for accuracy instead. ou r brains are organized in such a way as to be efficient. The less files the better. It is a sign of a well organized mind that can use this system without falling into the pitfalls of ignoring the differences in the flowers. [;)] Just mho as always.

dawntreader -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 12:33:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: octavia Absolutely Dawntreader. If you notice though, you used lables to help me understand what you were talking about. . You labled the original author a "Gorean slave" and provide that the words where said in context to the lable "slave". Had you not provided those points of reference, we might assume you were refering to the fact that your so damn sexy, [;)] or a musician, because of the context we can grab from your picture. Lables are an important tool we use to communicate. . ROFL!!!!!!!!! Touch'e octavia and you are right ofcourse...labels are important and labels are quite helpful[:)] i am aspiring to be unlabelable!!!!!!

octavia -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 12:54:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: octavia quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader Well said Whip [sm=applause.gif] A Gorean slave summed up my identity (unknowingly) when she posted these words on becoming a slave. She said "just exhale and be". This resonates with my very core - i love it! No box, no label and no parameters....just "being" who you are designed by the Universe to be[:)] Absolutely Dawntreader. If you notice though, you used lables to help me understand what you were talking about. . You labled the original author a "Gorean slave" and provide that the words where said in context to the lable "slave". Had you not provided those points of reference, we might assume you were refering to the fact that your so damn sexy, [;)] or a musician, because of the context we can grab from your picture. Lables are an important tool we use to communicate. The human brain forms what are called templates based on first exprieences. For every experience after that initial one, our brain strives to put them into context AS RELATES to that very first one. It is how we define our world and how lables are useful. This is a good way to understand how as individuals we can define the same things so differently. We are not all basing our definitions on an universals, only our own unique experience. For example: The very first time a baby enounters a flower, he will see it, smell it, eat it, crush it, lick it. step on it.... he is purpose driven here, he is forming a template in his brain called "flower". There is your lable. Is the lable the item? No, the lable is exactly that, the lable our toddler is going to use to pull up that file later when needed again. Next time you hand baby another flower, but this time it's blue and not pink, he will explore it to find out if he can tuck it away in the same file or if he needs to create a new one. Eventually when you hand him a flower, he may only look at it and decide it needs to go into the file flower. Perhaps this is what happens to us sometimes when we get super efficient in our lableing of others, we get overconfident as to what we think we will find on exploration and choose not to delve farther into the actually person, choosing to rely on our template for accuracy instead. ou r brains are organized in such a way as to be efficient. The less files the better. It is a sign of a well organized mind that can use this system without falling into the pitfalls of ignoring the differences in the flowers. [;)] Just mho as always. OH DEAR LORD! I need to be grounded from posting until I learn to frickin spell.

dawntreader -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 1:28:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader unlabelable!!!!!! i wonder if unlabelable is even a word?[:D]

domiguy -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 1:34:52 PM)
It all basically boils down to personal tastes and likes....As well as the use of common sense....If someone does not seem to fit into a favorable position utilizing these three measures they are probably not going to be your cup of spunk.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 6:24:51 PM)
i have said from the beginning, i learn something from everyone i interact with.......some i learn things i want to do, and some i learn things i never want to do. some just make me go hmmmmmmm..... to the OP, i agree with most of what you have written, so of course i declare you to be a genius, for today anyhow.[sm=applause.gif]

sublimelysensual -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/9/2007 8:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy It all basically boils down to personal tastes and likes....As well as the use of common sense....If someone does not seem to fit into a favorable position utilizing these three measures they are probably not going to be your cup of spunk. -Tries not to think about how long it would take to fill a cup..or the condition of said spunk by the time a cupful had been gathered- grinz... -a

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/10/2007 2:20:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: octavia OH DEAR LORD! I need to be grounded from posting until I learn to frickin spell. You and me both!

CuriousLord -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/10/2007 3:39:14 AM)
There's one, and only one true definition for <insert stance here>. This comes from <insert name of some credible-sounding source I just made up>, and it's the only true way to be <stance>. <stance>- noun- One who pays CuriousLord lavish amounts of cash on a regular basis. There you have it! Straight from <fictional source>! For all those out there needing the approval of others for their own identity, send your cash to: CuriousLord <CuriousLord's street address> <CL's city>, <CL's state>. <CL's zip code>.

charmdpetKeira -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/10/2007 4:43:39 AM)
quote: I think, it's not just how we see ourselves, it's how the person in our life see's us as well. The eyes of our beholders. I believe it's important in a relationship that both people see each other in the same light. Regardless of how every Tom, Dick, Jane, and Harry views us. I was owned by one, who had me pretend to be something I am not. I do/did not have a problem with him doing this, from time to time, however, there was a problem with the fact, he never acknowledged what I actually am. I do not believe it would be far off to say, he really never knew me at all. I am watching for the one who will see me for what I am, as well as, my potential. I also agree, with your point on not letting others dictate what one should be. The ones who can not see me for what I am are those I do not have to consider, might, be my Master (one who has mastered me and our relationship, regardless of title) Sincerely, k

Totalmaster4you -> RE: Eyes of our beholders, and how we do things. (6/11/2007 2:11:32 PM)
*Noah* We use labels for all sorts of things, not just people or their preferences. jenny took the time and care to say why they are necessary. Even though they may solve one problem they can create other problems. Much like everything else in life, there are unintended consequences. What I didn't care for was that you took the discussion from the general and personalized it with a label, directed at jenny, that most people would consider a perjorative. How might that person have felt if indeed they were disabled. There was no need to do that to make your point. I'm sure she is perfectly capable of speaking on her own behalf. However there are those that are shy and periodically stick their toes in the water and are intimidated when the discussion is personalized. I would prefer to encourage their participation by staying on topic. Keep the flame thrower for the folks who really deserve the flaming. In truth it took some courage for her to write an opinion showing a different perspective. ,As for your last point I do think it might be impossible for 2 strangers to come together and have a power exchange dynamic without the exchange of information using labels. How would one know if the other was what they were seeking? By wearing certain clothes(label) wearing an identity badge(label) speaking in code(label). Lastly not all labels are bad. They provide a context to convey a bundle of information in a rapid way. Can labels be misused, have unintended consequences etc. Yes. But to dispense with them would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I might also add that the OP agreed with her. I think you owe the lady an apology. Not for your opinion but for the personalization.

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