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Lesbian Dominant women - 6/9/2007 11:21:21 AM   
BDSMenigma


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Would You, as a Lesbian Dominant women, consider a relationship with, a person seeking male to female gender re-assignment / sex change operation, who was still in the pre-operational state? Yes. No. Why?   Does gender play the sole reason for your attraction, or are there other qualities such as: Scent / smell, Mannerisms, Etc.   Thank You in advance.
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/9/2007 1:02:49 PM   
undergroundsea


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For what is also a romantic relationship, lesbian dommes are best able to respond.

For D/s or M/s relationships without romance, the lines become blurry. I know of a couple very well regarded in the BDSM community where a gay woman is a slave to a gay man. She has a female lover.

I am a straight male and have experienced submission to multiple lesbians on an ongoing basis. In each case, it has not been an exclusive relationship.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/9/2007 1:06:12 PM >

(in reply to BDSMenigma)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/9/2007 2:46:54 PM   
yrstocollar


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Sexuality is one of those things which I view as a continuum.... simply put, you have your 100% gay on one end and 100% straight on the other with (in my opinion) MOST people sitting somewhere in the middle. Add time to this and you generally find people moving up and down the continuum. While of course many people (particularly at the ends of the line) may not be that fluid in their sexuality, I think over a lifetime many are or are prepared to be if the opportunity presents. I also think what helps move people one way or the other at particular points in their life is that opportunity... meeting someone with whom they feel enough chemistry to be worth the "risk" of challenging their sexual identity. Having said this I'm sure many lesbians (Domme or otherwise) would consider this... so long as there was that chemistry and potential.

Of course, you do bring up other factors which may prevent an attraction or feeling that chemistry... I don't think mannerisms would generally be a problem... many lesbians like what you could label "dykey" "boyish" "butch" mannerisms and many aren't attracted to these... it's no different to being attracted to someone with brown hair... but frankly having these or not will only prevent an initial attraction... besides they can be learned as well.

Smell might be something to consider though if it came to intimacy... but by that stage I imagine there would be some chemistry / other attraction going on... again if there was enough of that spark it shouldn't matter.

For me... if I met someone who you described and I was considering getting into a relationship with them I would have to consider the implications of how much this other person may be messed up by their current situation and what they're going to do. I don't mean to sound unkind or judgemental by saying that... all I mean is going through this situation is generally pretty traumatic at the best of times... or it has been pretty traumatic and confusing leading up to this point... having such major emotional issues would certainly put a strain on myself and the relationship. So I would have to consider that. As horrible as it sounds I would have to weigh up the level of attraction and possible benefits of the potential relationship vs the possible negative side effects of having to go through questioning my own identity as a lesbian (depending how important it was to me) and possible negative consequences of having to support someone going through re-assignment who may or may not have quite a bit of baggage to go with that.

It does remind me of a time when I was intensely attracted to a girl and got close to getting involved with her a number of times but every time I did little alarm bells would go off in my brain saying "she's no good for you" because I knew that having a relationship with her would give me more heartache than pleasure because she had so many issues. If we had more chemistry between us and relationship potential (not just the attraction) or she had slightly less difficult issues to deal with I probably would have gone there.

All in all though these are issues we consider when choosing a partner... it's not limited to just lesbian Dommes

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/9/2007 5:20:44 PM   
BDSMenigma


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awsome feed back, it gives me some optimism.
thank You.


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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/9/2007 5:22:48 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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man, would i give almost anything to submist to a lesbian Mistress

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/10/2007 8:50:09 AM   
BDSMenigma


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quote:

michaelOfGeorgia

michaelOfGeorgia, come on now elaborate on that....

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/10/2007 9:11:04 AM   
DiannaVesta


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My lovers have pretty much been women but I do occasionally meet a submissive male that excites that part of me. It really isn't that they dress or turn into a woman as much as it is their energy. I'm not saying that they drop a wrist and become effeminate but that they have very special qualities and a good handle on their ego & machismo.


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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/10/2007 12:41:43 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSMenigma

Would You, as a Lesbian Dominant women, consider a relationship with, a person seeking male to female gender re-assignment / sex change operation, who was still in the pre-operational state? Yes. No. Why?   Does gender play the sole reason for your attraction, or are there other qualities such as: Scent / smell, Mannerisms, Etc.   Thank You in advance.


My experience is that whilst there is more than enough social acceptance around, there is almost no one of any type/persuasion who would consider a TS female for a relationship in the sense that I read you intend, whether pre or post op.

The thing is, lesbians like women and there are more than enough natal women around. Heterosexual men like women and there are more than enough natal women around. Bisexuals meanwhile, seem to prefer natal men or natal women and again there are more than enough around.

What this has to do with is that the potential partner, once told (as they must be really) of one's past, cannot get that out of their heads. Heterosexual males question whether they might be gay, and perhaps (I dont know) lesbian women might question whether they might not be lesbian after all. One can pass 100% in every aspect, indistinguishable from "the real thing", and yet it becomes the single determining factor.

There is of course also the social fear that I perceive someone might feel at being with a TS female, and how that is perceived to reflect upon them. I liken it as an employer to having five candidates for a job, all equally qualified, one of whom is disabled - its awful to say, but the disabled person wouldnt be getting the job, because why should I bring their issues into my company when I dont have to?

As for the factors you mentioned; scent/smell seems primarily a product of hormonal make up - I smell like a woman apparently. Mannerisms and movement and so on can be learned, as can a tolerably female voice. Appearance is a big factor in being socially acceptable, and in that, whilst hair can be removed and hormonal treatment will affect the overall shape in the long term, one is generally stuck with what testosterone has done. Sadly there is no way to make most male bodies look that female due to not only muscle development but most importantly the size of the rib cage and certain facial features - jawline and brow bone in the main, and the sizes of hands and feet. There are surgeries to help with these aspects, but they are very expensive.

There are some interesting comments which you might find relevant, in a recent thread in the general section of the boards "when does a boy becomes a girl?" - including some from intersex members here.

E

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/10/2007 2:08:15 PM   
cagedanimal


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Hi, i have had the pleasure of serving a Lesbian Household. Whether it was for the weekend or the week, they had me clean, cook, laundry, clean the horse barn, etc. They would on occasions put me in women clothing when they had company and for humiliation purposes and i was always in a chastity cage the whole time i was in their house. Once in a while they would use me as their toy for floggings, toys, etc. They had no want to have a transgendered person, just a male sub to control and use, perferring born female as their partners.

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/11/2007 10:05:15 AM   
daniL


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I would consider a relationship with them, but for me, the sexual aspect would be difficult because I really just don't want to have sex with a man. However, I also have no problem not having sex for a long stretch of time, so if they were alright with me being the emotional support they needed, liking cuddles, and the non-sex aspects of a BDSM relationship, then we could work something out.

(in reply to cagedanimal)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/11/2007 11:59:14 AM   
LaTigresse


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I would never say never. I base my relationships with others upon more than JUST physical details. In the past I have found myself attracted to all sorts of people that, initially, I never would have imagined considering. Fortunately I took the time to get to know the human being and it made all the difference in the world.


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BDSMenigma)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/11/2007 8:32:07 PM   
stella40


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I'd say it's purely individual, down to the person concerned.

Here you're dealing with two issues which are neither clear cut nor all that straightforward - gender and sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation in my view is largely down to preference and habit. I think many of us at some time, most likely earlier in our lives when forming deep interpersonal relationships with others have questioned both our preferences and habits, some have even gone further and experimented. There are some who have not. There are others who have no preference, or for whom preference isn't so important - they connect with the person, irrespective of gender and/or genitalia. There are also those who have had a series of unsuccessful relationships with one particular gender, usually the opposite gender who I personally regard as 'cross-overs' and they change their sexual orientation and often form successful relationships with someone of the same sex.

And then you have gender, which isn't always as clear-cut as we would all like to believe. We are conditioned from early infancy to categorize people into one of two genders - male and female. But what is male? And what is female? I could start a new thread asking this question and no doubt there would be many different responses but all would still fall within the bounds of what is socially accepted as male and female.

Many would define gender on physical characteristics, genitalia, or the role each gender plays in society, and none of these would be wrong as definitions, or would they? Man is the last surviving species of insect-eating, omnivorous ape, one of the most sexual animals in the animal kingdom, the male of the species has the largest penis of any animal, and we have evolved in various habitats and climates, evolving with wolves at one point, and with our evolution our genes have permutated and diversified so that certain members cannot fulfil their biological, reproductive role and thus this helps to prevent Man from overpopulating the planet and ultimately dying out.

The transsexual is but one of these permutations, a genetic fault where the soul, mind and heart is female but the body is predominantly male, and gender dysphoria is nothing other than alarm bells ringing, telling the brain that there's a conflict between mind, soul and body which affects how others perceive or treat this person. But the transsexual is not alone, there is also the intersexed male or female, the hermaphrodite, women with Turner's Syndrome, men with Klinefelter's Syndrome, and so on.

Even among those we all perceive to be normal healthy men and women there are slight imperfections. There are women with facial and body hair, deeper voices which resonate lower than the generally accepted female pitch of 140-160Hz, underdeveloped breasts, and men with softer skin, a few with voices which resonate higher than the generally accepted male pitch of 90-120Hz, small testes, and so on.

However it is these imperfections which are all taken into consideration when we consider someone for a relationship which involves intimacy. Either consciously or subconsciously we are still choosing a mate, someone who can relate to us and who we can relate to, someone who we find attractive and in the case of heterosexuals we hope to find or attract an attractive member of the gene pool.

While most people are able to understand, accept and even empathise with the transsexual on a very impersonal level this understanding and acceptance wanes the more involved and intimate our anticipated interaction with this person becomes, so that irrespective of the preferences and sexual orientation of the person, there are very few non-transsexual people among us who are prepared to develop any sort of relationship with a transsexual - and this goes for employment, friendships and more intimate relationships.

However there are people who do. There are even those who prefer the transsexual partner or submissive or Dominant. Why? I can't explain. You'd have to ask them.

And while the physical appearance of a MtoF transsexual is extremely important and often crucial when it comes to gaining acceptance from others it isn't necessarily the most important factor - but the way a transsexual perceives themself and others, their attitude, and how they come across and project themselves to others which I feel is the single most influential factor in gaining acceptance. You might as a transsexual be 5ft 4ins tall, slim, petite and photoimage perfect as a woman, but being ultra-convincing isn't always the key to being accepted. People aren't stupid, and if you don't project yourself right, you lack confidence, you feel uncomfortable about yourself or you are unnatural people will immediately pick up on that and it will be as clear and visible as having neon lights above your head. Nobody wants to be deceived, I find that trying to fool others into thinking you're a real woman hardly ever works, it makes them suspicious, puts their back up and even worse, can arouse their fears and prejudices.

I write from experience. I'm tall, large, not the most feminine or convincing of transsexuals, nor the most attractive, I am a pre-op TS female, I identify myself as a lesbian, I am female and I qualify my being female by adding TS wherever I feel it is likely to become an issue - I'm not out to change society, to educate people, or to live up to the popular or media generated stereotypes of what is female- I am myself, nothing more, nothing less. I've served lesbian Dommes, and don't seem to have a major problem getting into a relationship with a woman. None of them have had any issues as to who I am or to what gender I am.

Sure I've been rejected, turned down, and I've attracted quite a few people for the wrong reasons. I don't have an issue with people not accepting me, I can understand that many people find it hard to relate to a transsexual for whatever reason, or that it just doesn't 'float their boat'. But then again, when you stop and think about it, am I really that different from anyone else?

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to BDSMenigma)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/11/2007 8:49:43 PM   
needDomme


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i concur. There is something really really hot about being enslaved by someone who is not attracted to you, but has use for your sevices. And, all the time knowing that your simply a tool. i guess it's kind of like being forced into abstinence in a very natural way.

need

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/12/2007 3:15:56 PM   
rhythmboi


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i'm not a Domme, but in my in vanilla life, as far as i'm concerned trans women are women, period. Their not being able to afford a $60,000+ body mod is not grounds for rejection. But, i find that my sexual orientation runs far more along gender lines than it does along physiological sex lines, so i'm sure others' mileage varies quite a bit.

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/12/2007 3:19:05 PM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSMenigma

quote:

michaelOfGeorgia

michaelOfGeorgia, come on now elaborate on that....



i mean that i have always wanted to be the submissive of a Lesbian Mistress, hell, i wish i were a lesbian in all respects...(grin)


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Are we having fun, yet?

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/12/2007 4:30:19 PM   
Politesub53


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Stella, you say you are not out to educate people. Well for What my opinion is worth, you should be. All your posts that i have read are thought provoking and interesting. You made a very nice point about acting right and not just looking right. Kudos to you for having such insight and the abiltity to puts thoughts to paper.

Regards....politesub

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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/13/2007 1:45:32 AM   
stella40


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From: London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Stella, you say you are not out to educate people. Well for What my opinion is worth, you should be. All your posts that i have read are thought provoking and interesting. You made a very nice point about acting right and not just looking right. Kudos to you for having such insight and the abiltity to puts thoughts to paper.

Regards....politesub


Why thank you Politesub53, it's nice to be considered by others to be among the group of people here (yourself included) who make the 'must read' postings that make this forum so fascinating.

I write from experience, and can remember the time some years back when I looked better and was more photoimage perfect, walking along a leafy lane, past a overhanging tree, I dip my head, feel the leaves brush my face and walk on... to find that people started looking at me and pointing, I turn and to my horror some ten yards back I find my wig hanging from the overhanging branches of the tree.

It was quite funny, even at the time.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/13/2007 6:38:07 AM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

...

I am a straight male and have experienced submission to multiple lesbians on an ongoing basis. In each case, it has not been an exclusive relationship. ...




Wow, lucky you!

(in reply to undergroundsea)
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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/13/2007 3:36:27 PM   
addicted2it


Posts: 322
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From: California
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Dominant women, rather than "lesbian dominant women," would be more of an accurately phased topic, only because the words "lesbian" and "women" are redundant.

I have personally known many lesbians, as well as male to female transgeners; and it is a popular misconception that lesbians hate men.  There are only a few who are suspicious of male intentions, especially if their girlfriends are either friendly or a bit flirtatious in a social settings which included both genders.

Bear in mind that this is only from my recollection of personal experience.

Many years ago, I knew a lesbian by the name of Tiffany, who happened to be an aspiring actress living in West Los Angeles.  I placed an ad in an alternative newspaper to which she replied.  I described myself as a submissive male who was looking for a dominant female.  She agreed to meet me for lunch, after which we became pretty good friends.  We hung out, went to events together, but there was always this underlying need within her to be with her girlfriend.  And whenever I wanted to attend attend a BDSM event with Tiffany, she always opted to spend time with her lover instead.  Well, how could I be angry, because I knew about her sexual preference for women?

Tiffany had a very strong sex drive, and often her lover did did not have the energy or the willingness to satisfy her, so in essence I became Tiffany's serrogate lesbian. (And as God is my witness, this is the whole truth.)  I would go over to her house every day and get her off using my hand or by oral stimulation.  There was little or no satisfact for me, but I did it anyway.  And through it all, I learned to develop a strong arm and lots of stamina.   ;-)

This arrangement continued for many months until I became so tired and frustrated that I had to call it quits. But believe it or not, we did engage in genital sex, though only once, and I could easily tell that male/female copulation wasn't very satisfying to her. 

So, I guess the moral of the story is that we cannot change who and what we are, and often this is a hard lesson to learn.

Since I identify as a heterosexual slave, it would be natural for me to be willing to serve any woman regardless of gender preference.  There are many other service slaves, both men and woman, who perform service without any expectation of sexual favors or contact.  That being said, my submission is sexually-driven, which means that my sexual pleasure is primarily derived from service to a woman regarless of any sexual contact. 

Submission and sexual need originates in the brain, and in the case of submissives or slaves, satisfaction it does not always need to translate or culminate with orgasm or ejaculation. 

What is so appealing about a service slave?  Maybe it's because it involves service first and a sex later... or for that matter no sex at all.






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RE: Lesbian Dominant women - 6/13/2007 4:09:56 PM   
Politesub53


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i think the original question assumes that only a Lesbian would consider taking a male thinking of changing to female a submissive. Also, as he identifies as a straight male he has ruled out service to a male Dom. The part about looks and smell are interesting as perfumes are manufactured for the female form, so would they smell the same way on a man ?

Many submissives just like to serve, just as many Dominants purely want to be served. For these people it is simply service, no play, no sex, just service. i would think then that there will be many Women, despite sexual preference, who would be happy to have a male considering TG serve them.

(in reply to addicted2it)
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