quote:

ORIGINAL: SwPuno
I know much of this applied to me when I first started out.  Is this an incurable mindset?   Not in my case at least.  Given
some time and a chance, along with some positive reinforcement and recognition of tasks or skills done right one can develop
some competence and confidence in themselves and will probably approach future relationships from a more experienced
and positive perspective.

I hope this has been of some help.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: SwPuno
I know much of this applied to me when I first started out.  Is this an incurable mindset?   Not in my case at least.  Given
some time and a chance, along with some positive reinforcement and recognition of tasks or skills done right one can develop
some competence and confidence in themselves and will probably approach future relationships from a more experienced
and positive perspective.

I hope this has been of some help.

Very well said boy.

I also think there's a difference between someone feeling shy/humbled and working to not come across as arrogant or uppoty, and a total stranger who just goes on and on about how pathetic they are- clearly simply wanting you to fill the role of their tormentor with no real sense of anything but their personal fantasy.

Miss irish

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadCasey

Hello Mistresses and others,

I am a male switch with strong submissive desires, and if I may add my thoughts, I experience the exact opposite type of mentality as the one discussed here.

I'm a strong and assertive man in my every day life, and in my "vanilla" sexual encounters as well. The thing that turns me on about being submissive is *precisely* the fact that I would lose control, and I would be the ultimate object of someone else's desire. It's a role-reversal type of thing. I get turned on at the thought of being at someone else's command... mostly because its not something I usually experience.

I can certainly understand how many--a majority, even--submissive men might be the meek type, who have never seen themselves as assertive or even vaulable, but for many of us, it is the opposite: just for once, we want to be treated like an object ;-) to be the fulfillment of someone ELSE'S fantasy.

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ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

MadCasey and LadyClaudiaVan...you both hit upon something that I'd like to know more about...MC talked about the "role-reversal thing." LCV discussed how she likes to humiliate her sub given his size - that he "towers" over her. So then maybe what I am trying to understand really is what exactly is the nature of female dominance? Not that I think all dominant women feel this way, but I wonder how many would say that at least in part their dominance over a man is realized through the paradox of having someone, most times, physically bigger, stronger and therefore seen by the larger society as being dominant, submitting to her. If I were to be honest, I suppose I would have to admit that this is part of it for me, but not the whole of it. (But this would be very different from the dom male/sub female dynamic.) What exactly IS the "role-reversal thing?"

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ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

How much of this type of presentation is just some fantasy that some men hold of what femdom is all about and how much of this is really how some submissive men feel about themselves?

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ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

Moreover, is this really the type of mentality that female Doms are looking for in their subs? Is this what most male subs believe that female Doms want?

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ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Oh, Fox loves to be objectified. If I tell him to give me his back to write he still gets turned on after all these years. If I tell him to play my footstool he gets hard.

But he's a very valuable desk, a fancy footstool, in other words, even as an object he is highly valued.

Hope that makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: TexasMaam
What a great topic!  In years past, I've known subs who lived such double lives by keeping their BDSM fetishes in the dark, hidden from their wives and significant others to such a degree that their self loathing could only be relieved by the catharsis of punishment, verbal and/or physical.

The degrading punishment fed the self recriminations further, and the resulting self loathing could only be satiated by another round of humiliation and degradation. 

It's a particulary vicious masochistic torque.  I believe that many true humiliation puppies live tormented lives of intense suffering and I believe that the origins of their living nighmare are usually rooted in childhood trauma.

In a screwy sort of upside down psychological state, their suffering is the only way they know how to 'feel good' or 'feel better' about themselves. 

Perhaps another way of looking at this is that these men aren't able to acknowledge or accept what I'll refer to as the "inner slut" within them that wants to fully expose themselves to a woman and serve her in any way she desires.  Once they do, they are able to release of all the shame and self-loathing they might be feeling about themselves from not fitting the "mold" which they feel that society expects from them as men. 

This is something I recently experienced for myself as a result of the psych evaluation I was put through when trying to maintain the time I have with my unmentionables while going through a divorce with my former Mistress, who of course denied her role and painted a picture of my being a "perverted man who was into degrading acts of S&M".  Needless to say, this deeply affected me as until then I held no sense of shame about who or what I am.  My relationship with Majik has allowed me to free myself once again from all that BS.

Yet I think, many men are never able to reach that point to begin with and live in fear of being outed for the submissives they are at the core of their beings.  Thus the fear, they must constantly live in, as if living a double life, they must protect against discovery along with the accompanying shame & embarrassment that would accompany it, not only to themselves but to their families as well.

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A narcissistic mother will punish and degrade her son until he buckles and collapses into tears, crying 'I'm so sorry mommy, I won't ever do that again, I love you mommy' and through his wracking sobs "mommy dearest" can be heard telling him what a stupid, ignorant, disgusting piece of 'garbage' he is while she says that she loves him anyway, pathetic as he is, now that he's admitted that she's right. She may tell him then that she's the only person who will EVER love him, he's such a stupid, unlovable, filthy, incapable failure of a boy.  That sort of cruel, sadistic, abusive cycle is what produces hard core humiliation puppies: their only sense of approval from her never comes from any positive behavior, it only comes after the storm, every time.

Had something of one of those myself, but not nearly to the extreme that you describe.  Definitely a narcissist though that could rarely be pleased.   Takes a lot of therapy and inner work to heal and move beyond that. 

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Of course there are the hng wannabe's who fantasize about severe humiliation and degradation, but I know there are many subs who truly live in the sad, stricken, loathsome catacombs of their own broken psyches.

It is a deep and true psychosis, one that sometimes finds a 'safe' outlet in the world of BDSM.

I happen to adore men far too much to emasculate a man in such a way that would cause the kind of deep psychological damage that predicates this type of fetish, but I do enjoy situational humiliation that offers me lighthearted amusement at a sub's embarrassing predicament.  That level of powder puff degradation can never be enough for the sub who craves serious humiliation. 

Majik and I enjoy the kind of "powder puff" embarrassment that I think you're referring to.  I'm one who can be embarrassed easily, turning beet red.  Being the sadist she is, she loves having fun with that.  I have to admit that I enjoy it too under the right set of circumstances, often getting turned on by it because it's being done by her.  She'd never knowingly do anything to harm me emotionally and I totally trust her in that regard.

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Years ago I was trained to reduce a man or a woman to a shivering puddle of slobber, urine and tears with a few choice words.  I can be deadly accurate in hammering the triggers to break down a sub; but I choose not to. 

Could you please share more about this training?  How does it work, and what kind of things do you do?  This sounds fascinating to me.  If you don't feel comfortable sharing it on the boards, I'd understand.

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I'm generally very positive, yet demanding in my interactions with just about everyone I know.  I rarely cut someone to ribbons. 

It takes a particularly vicious, mean spirited person to bring out the Viper in Me.  I don't like that side of My persona and I keep it in check.

Once in a rare while, though, when I need to bring some arrogant self centered jackass back down to planet earth, I can cut loose with a few well chosen, often soft spoken insults and let fly, knowing the calculated ammunition will usually leave the victim gutshot and struggling to regain their self image.

Dark stuff, that.

I think we all have our dark sides; the places we prefer not to go until the right person and circumstances pushes all the wrong buttons we have: at precisely the same time, taking us there in an instant if we allow them to.  

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Great post.  Thanks for the topic.

TexasMaam

Indeed!  I absolutely agree!  Kudos to you Ma'am for adding so much valuable insight to it too!

quote:



What a great topic!  In years past, I've known subs who lived such double lives by keeping their BDSM fetishes in the dark, hidden from their wives and significant others to such a degree that their self loathing could only be relieved by the catharsis of punishment, verbal and/or physical.

The degrading punishment fed the self recriminations further, and the resulting self loathing could only be satiated by another round of humiliation and degradation. 

It's a particulary vicious masochistic torque.  I believe that many true humiliation puppies live tormented lives of intense suffering and I believe that the origins of their living nighmare are usually rooted in childhood trauma.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressNoName

Wow!! Thank you all for your incredible insights and openness. Texasmaam: a lot of what you said is what I have generally expected. I don't know if it goes for every male sub, but in talking with a couple of male subs who enjoy the humiliation aspects of play, they seemed to be hinting at this need, and that is the word they used, "need" to go through the humiliation. Almost like an exoneration...or as something that helps them make peace with their submissiveness.

Very interesting indeed.

nonu: you had an interesting take on this...that perhaps subs want to present themselves as a "ready-made slave"...like their just right just out of the box. The competition is indeed steep and sub men have to find that edge that makes them more appealing to dommes than the next sub. I suppose for some, it is possible that they think this will somehow get them ahead in the race...I dunno.

pixel: Thanks for sharing some of your story here...very helpful. All the best with your court case. I can only imagine how hurtful it must've been for your ex-M to do what she did.

Please keep the comments coming. I am learning a lot. And thanks again.


MNN