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Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 6:31:58 PM   
selfbnd411


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Speak of the devil!

Studies say death penalty deters crime

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070611/ap_on_re_us/death_penalty_deterrence

By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer
13 minutes ago

What gets little notice, however, is a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument — whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

The reports have horrified death penalty opponents and several scientists, who vigorously question the data and its implications.

...

"Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"

Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory — if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy from murder).

To explore the question, they look at executions and homicides, by year and by state or county, trying to tease out the impact of the death penalty on homicides by accounting for other factors, such as unemployment data and per capita income, the probabilities of arrest and conviction, and more.

Among the conclusions:

• Each execution deters an average of 18 murders, according to a 2003 nationwide study by professors at Emory University. (Other studies have estimated the deterred murders per execution at three, five and 14).

• The Illinois moratorium on executions in 2000 led to 150 additional homicides over four years following, according to a 2006 study by professors at the University of Houston.

• Speeding up executions would strengthen the deterrent effect. For every 2.75 years cut from time spent on death row, one murder would be prevented, according to a 2004 study by an Emory University professor.

...

Critics of the findings have been vociferous.

Some claim that the pro-deterrent studies made profound mistakes in their methodology, so their results are untrustworthy. Another critic argues that the studies wrongly count all homicides, rather than just those homicides where a conviction could bring the death penalty. And several argue that there are simply too few executions each year in the United States to make a judgment.

...

Several authors of the pro-deterrent reports said they welcome criticism in the interests of science, but said their work is being attacked by opponents of capital punishment for their findings, not their flaws.

"Instead of people sitting down and saying 'let's see what the data shows,' it's people sitting down and saying 'let's show this is wrong,'" said Paul Rubin, an economist and co-author of an Emory University study. "Some scientists are out seeking the truth, and some of them have a position they would like to defend." 
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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 6:36:06 PM   
juliaoceania


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I would not only have to see their data, but examine their methodology

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 6:39:58 PM   
BlindDescent


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All I care about is that the convicted murderer not cause anymore mayhem. I don't care if it deters others; although that is a positive byproduct. Same with child molesters... I believe in a bastardized zen buddhist view, allow me to speed up your karmic debt and reset your bowling pins...come back next life and try again.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 6:41:09 PM   
Sinergy


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This is true.

I have seen studies which conclusively prove that gun control lowers crime, gun control increases crime, video games increase/decrease crime, hot weather increases/decreases crime, violent movies increase/decrease crime, Teaching self defense increases/decreases crime.  Lack of father in the household increases crime.

Thank you for providing this study, slfbnd411, but I am always fairly dubious of "single cause" types of studies.

Sinergy

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 7:16:43 PM   
TheHeretic


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      More fucking studies...  Any chance we'll apply the same standards to these that get applied to latest global warming scare?

      I have no idea whether the death penalty is a deterrent and this batch of studies won't change that.  I do believe it is appropriate more often than it's applied and is 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 7:59:54 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
     I have no idea whether the death penalty is a deterrent and this batch of studies won't change that.  I do believe it is appropriate more often than it's applied and is 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses.

More fallacies. Consider if an innocent man is convicted and executed where is the actual guilty party? For instance while Rolando Cruz and Alex Hernandez sat on death row awaiting execution for the murder of Jeanine Nicarico, the actual killer Brian Dugan killed Melissa Ackerman and Donna Schnorr as well as raping Demi Peterson, Sharon Grajeik and Cheryl Weaver.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 9:20:00 PM   
stella40


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I'm still waiting for the study which claims that the free market economy with the introduction of the more competitive employment market, spread of poverty and promotion of consumerism causes crime but I'm not holding my breath..

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 9:25:14 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I was just about to make the same point...

It's 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses if you catch the right nigger.  It's not too effective when you catch the wrong one.

Yeah, I said it.  All you death-penalty fetishists should go and look at the percentage of death-row inmates who oh just happen to be black.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
    I have no idea whether the death penalty is a deterrent and this batch of studies won't change that.  I do believe it is appropriate more often than it's applied and is 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses.

More fallacies. Consider if an innocent man is convicted and executed where is the actual guilty party? For instance while Rolando Cruz and Alex Hernandez sat on death row awaiting execution for the murder of Jeanine Nicarico, the actual killer Brian Dugan killed Melissa Ackerman and Donna Schnorr as well as raping Demi Peterson, Sharon Grajeik and Cheryl Weaver.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 9:26:32 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     More fucking studies...  Any chance we'll apply the same standards to these that get applied to latest global warming scare?

     I have no idea whether the death penalty is a deterrent and this batch of studies won't change that.  I do believe it is appropriate more often than it's applied and is 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses.


The latest global warming scare? You mean there's another one?
I had a very heavy bedspread over me last night and woke up sweating this morning.
I deduced that since that bedspread is a "winter" bedspread and not of the much lighter "summer" variety that was what made me sweat and not the 70 degree heat or global warming.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 10:38:36 PM   
Termyn8or


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:"It's 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses if you catch the right nigger.  It's not too effective when you catch the wrong one. "

I can't believe you said that.

Wow.

I will not comment further at this time.

T

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 10:46:51 PM   
gooddogbenji


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
It's 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses if you catch the right nigger.  It's not too effective when you catch the wrong one.


Wait.  I thought the official line was "we always have the right nigger, because if he wasn't criminal, he wouldn't be black."

When's that guidebook gonna get published?

Yours,


benji

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/10/2007 11:28:06 PM   
Termyn8or


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I could see the headlines in the local paper now :

Recidivism down in capital cases

I really wonder how long it'll take before someone notices.

T

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RE: Studies Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 12:16:09 AM   
ElectraGlide


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If you were given the death penalty, you would probably die of old age first, they take so dam long, with the appeals and the other distractions.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 1:15:23 AM   
favesclava


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I was just about to make the same point...

It's 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses if you catch the right nigger.  It's not too effective when you catch the wrong one.

Yeah, I said it.  All you death-penalty fetishists should go and look at the percentage of death-row inmates who oh just happen to be black.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
   I have no idea whether the death penalty is a deterrent and this batch of studies won't change that.  I do believe it is appropriate more often than it's applied and is 100% effective in preventing repeat offenses.

More fallacies. Consider if an innocent man is convicted and executed where is the actual guilty party? For instance while Rolando Cruz and Alex Hernandez sat on death row awaiting execution for the murder of Jeanine Nicarico, the actual killer Brian Dugan killed Melissa Ackerman and Donna Schnorr as well as raping Demi Peterson, Sharon Grajeik and Cheryl Weaver.


i wonder if there's a study to show how many niggers are in death row because a  cracker redneck honky  like yourself was stupid enopugh to call them niggers.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 1:44:14 AM   
LadyEllen


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I believe L&M used the n word to show his point, and nothing much more than that, in the same way in England in former times it was always some Irish guy who was guilty.

The problem with the death penalty is well known - one must be absolutely sure that one has the right person, as there is no way of putting things back right if one gets it wrong. Having said that, I'm sure all the Irish guys released here in the last ten years or so, after spending 20 odd years in prison for crimes they didnt commit, would disagree that one can put anything back right after such a period.

In my view, one can only use the death penalty where the case is absolutely watertight - and thats often a difficult thing to achieve. But then, one should only sentence someone to life imprisonment if the case is watertight, and we have seen enough miscarriages to know that even in that instance, with perhaps lower stakes, we cant get it right everytime.

As for the deterrent effect - maybe its correct. Thing is though, if it is correct then it doesnt matter who we execute (guilty or innocent), the effect is the same. And thats where it gets a bit awkward, because following that reasoning then literally anyone will do, and its far easier from our experience to find an Irish anyone to fit the crime - after all, theyre all criminals arent they?

E

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 2:55:40 AM   
Vendaval


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IMO, it is too hard to prove a negative, too many on death row who have been proven innocent by DNA testing and no way to really know how many crimes are NOT committed because a criminal was afraid of the consequences.

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 3:17:18 AM   
meatcleaver


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Excuse me while I let out a sacastic laugh. I would love to see the studies and what criteria they use to prove that 3-18 lives would be saved should there be the death penalty.

Control guns and you will reduce murders as proved by comparing the stats between countries that have gun control and those that don't. Of course this will be rejected by the death fetishists that want the death penalty and would volunteer to do the deed themselves.

But what has happened to the humanist and indeed Christian (for those that claim to be) principles of refusing to take human life in revenge?

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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 5:42:12 AM   
kittinSol


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Lordandmaster, Sinergy and meatcleaver have all made the most relevant points about this topic.

Here's a personal anecdote: philosophy was the main subject for my baccalaureat. We were seventeen year old, in a class of 35 students - that's the context. One of our classes was dedicated to the subject of the death penalty (banned in France since 1981 - shamefully late, I hasten to add). The prof started by doing a survey: who was in favour of it (20 students), who was against it (9 students), who didn't know either way (6 students).

We all wrote down our arguments, got together in little groups and discussed the subject. After an hour, we did the survey all over again.
The results had changed dramatically: now, 5 students were still in favour (hardasses they were, and I still wonder to this day what on earth they were doing studying philosophy as a major subject with such unflinchable ideas, lol), 21 against it, and 9 undecided.

The legal, humanitarian and moral arguments shifted the panel by a landslide and now, over 50 percent of the class was firmly opposed to legalised murder. It's a question of presenting the rational arguments to a person, and if that fails, confronting them with the horrible possibibility that they are condemned for something they didn't commit, or that a nearest and dearest is, and that they have to watch them die.

Unfortunately, sometimes the personal is what it takes for people to think about issues rather than just react about them.





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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 5:54:11 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlindDescent

All I care about is that the convicted murderer not cause anymore mayhem. I don't care if it deters others; although that is a positive byproduct. Same with child molesters... I believe in a bastardized zen buddhist view, allow me to speed up your karmic debt and reset your bowling pins...come back next life and try again.


amen....have a family member brutally murdered and sit in court for 3 days while one of the defendants testifies against the other one, all the time smirking at you and your family.

you will not only believe in the death penalty, it will take every fiber of your being to not jump out of your seat and administer it right there.

ok it made ME feel that way-i know i wont change anyones mind here.



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RE: Studes Say Death Penalty Deters Crime - 6/11/2007 6:34:29 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Yeah, I said it.  All you death-penalty fetishists should go and look at the percentage of death-row inmates who oh just happen to be black.


Hmmmm... why don't we just do that very thing?

quote:

  
Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, more than half of those under sentence of death have been white.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/drrace.htm


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