A new path for slaves from abusive M/s

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WhiplashSmile -> A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/13/2007 10:33:50 PM)
Hey Gang, I wanted to make a post on subject I've not seen talked about much in the threads. We all have seen posts by submissives/slaves that mention coming from abusive M/s relationships, some in fact, have only know the aspects on an abusive M/s relationship. However, now they are free of it now. However, there are new challenges that lay ahead of them. The exploration of a new and healthier M/s relationship, one with perhaps a Master that is more nuturing or has a Daddy Dom side. I'm interested in hearing stories about hurdles, challenges, resources and anything related to a slave exploring this different flip side to BDSM M/s relationships. Interested in hearing from slaves that have been through this, and from Masters that took and nutured these slaves for a healthy M/s relationship. Sure, we all read about the negative crap that happens in M/s relationships. I'm not looking for this to turn into a bad Master bashing contest, but rather focus how those get past this crap! Any advice people can post for others to read, that have just been released from a Bad M/s relationship. Looking for people to exchange something positive out of the negatives.

CuriousLord -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/13/2007 11:51:24 PM)
It's a neat subject, though I still have to ask for clarification; how would you define "abusive M/s relationship" in context of your OP?

NoirUMC -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:22:55 AM)
It isn't easy to define "abusive" in this case since things that might be present in functional M/s relationships would qualify as abuse under other circumstances. However, if the /s half of the relationship experienced treatment from the M/ half that was found to be detrimental to his or her quality of life, we might apply the term quite reasonably. Unfortunately, simply because one person might 'reasonably' describe a relationship as abusive does not mean that another person won't read it (reasonably again) as just another pointless sob story. Abuse may be impossible to define or recognize for an outside observer (or, I've often heard, for someone experiencing ongoing abuse). The safest response is to focus on the victim (rather than casting blame at an offender who may well be innocent in the eyes of many) and accept that if he or she feels abused, that's pretty all that counts. Do your second guessing later, sometime after consoling the victim and before pressing criminal charges (just in case our 'victim' is simply nuts). P.S. ...all this said in hopes that this threat might prove informative in the way it was originally presented instead of degenerating into countless questions over whether or not X actually experienced 'abuse' at the hands of Y.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:41:57 AM)
Let me attempt to make a clarification. Based on a slave submitting her heart, mind, body and soul. Where as the only thing the Master takes pleasure in her body and literally squeezes the life out her heart, mind and soul. Where the master is cruel not only in scene play, but in all others aspects of the relationship 24/7. Where negative reinforcement is highy used. Where the Master even breaks the slaves ribs intentional for the purpose of fucking her up out of anger. This type of stuff.. Everything in contrast to what a DaddyDom would do! The exact opposite to be exact to best explain what I'm getting at.

soultoshare -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 1:24:09 AM)
I think that most of us know the difference between "abusive" and "normal" activities in a relationship. I ran into a perfect form of what I felt was abuse in the threatened use of an accepted hard limit as punishment. In any BDSM relationship, there MUST be a level of trust, and violation of that trust with an active intent is abuse. Abuse is NOT something done to cause physical pain.....mental and emotinal abuse is just as detrimental, and what makes it worse is that it is often insidious, snuck in under the guise of humiliation or just a "mind fuck". I grew up dealing with emotional abuse, and have paid for it with my self-esteem. Only the recipient can actually make the determination of what constitutes emotional and/or mental abuse, hopefully before any lasting damage is done. BTW, Nior, it is usually the outside people that recognize the signs of abuse first, NOT the victim. And I'm not speaking of just the physical signs, either.....the first clues are usually changes in the behavior of the person being abused, the physical signs are often too easily explained away, and accepted by people who either can't or don't want to accept the idea that the victim IS being abused. As for a new path, the first thing that must be done is to get the abused party a path out of the realationship. The psychology of domestic abuse is complex and rooted deep in the victim. Once the victim is out, the most important step, in my opinion, is NOT to get involved in ANY kind of emotional relationship until they themselves regain their sense of self worth. They should seek out professional help from either support groups or trained personnel. Only someone who has been in the same place can truly understand what is going on in their minds. While I have never been in an abusive relationship, ( I ran like hell from the "Master" that played the mind fuck/hard limits card, thanks to those here that gave me the mental kick in the ass to think clearly!), I have had many friends who have been, and until SHE decided that enough was enough, all I could do is stand by and be prepared to pick up the pieces. As far as BDSM, and starting a new relationship, that's the toughie.....I have also seen victims get out of one relationship, get "better" and turn around and get right back in the same mess....they will gravitate to the same type of person almost EVERY time. But with the level of open conversation in BDSM, and the fact that many Doms I have spoken to have always asked about past experiences, it has paved the way for the avoidance of anything I condsidered a problem. And I wasn't even involved with them anything more than chatting. I have had them come straight out and ASK me what I thought actual abuse is in my mind. Any respectable Dom/Master, whatever title you choose, will know what to do based on the past experiences of the sub/slave. The danger is the player, the wanna-be who just sees BDSM as a way to play out his abusive manner. Personally, I am even more adamant about my hard limits now.....absolutely NO ONE will ever use them against me again, in ANY form or circumstance. If someone has the access to sites like CM, where others truly try to offer advice and help, it is an EXCELLENT resource. People here point others in the direction where they can receive more structured help. One drawback to the lifestyle is that few will try to seek outside help because of the fear of outing themselves, or fear of getting the other party arrested, or any number of reasons, be they real or simply imagined. Regardless of what side of the slash you are on, if you know of someone who may be in an abusive relationship, try to help them in any way you can. All this talk of what is abuse in BDSM is a cop out in my opinion....people are perfectly capable of recognizing the possibility of abuse in a dynamic, otherwise there would be no questions about what is and isn't abuse. After all, we are STILL thinking, caring human beings. Even a "no limits" slave can be abused. I'm sorry, but if I ever saw signs of detrimental treatment involving a sub/slave, I'd definitely be asking questions, and let them know that if they ever needed ANYTHING, I'd be there for them. Whiplash, this probably doesn't address your post directly, but it's just something to kick around.

NoirUMC -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 1:44:22 AM)
Definitely; people being abused aren't sitting there taking it because they have a clear perception of their situation. P.S. I gotta say, that word 'normal' threw me for a loop for a sec. :D

ExSteelAgain -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 2:21:48 AM)
One of the problems with the sub recognizing abuse is that a conflict with loyalty is present. She seeks to fit into her perception of submissiveness and belong to the group. The sub also thinks her loyalty to a bad Dom is going to be met with his loyalty. Loyalty is not necessarily a bad thing. A Dom will certainly expect a degree of loyalty and that is where the balance comes in for the sub. She has to give a degree of loyalty that is not harmful to herself.

julietsierra -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 2:59:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile Hey Gang, I wanted to make a post on subject I've not seen talked about much in the threads. We all have seen posts by submissives/slaves that mention coming from abusive M/s relationships, some in fact, have only know the aspects on an abusive M/s relationship. However, now they are free of it now. However, there are new challenges that lay ahead of them. The exploration of a new and healthier M/s relationship, one with perhaps a Master that is more nuturing or has a Daddy Dom side. I'm interested in hearing stories about hurdles, challenges, resources and anything related to a slave exploring this different flip side to BDSM M/s relationships. Interested in hearing from slaves that have been through this, and from Masters that took and nutured these slaves for a healthy M/s relationship. Sure, we all read about the negative crap that happens in M/s relationships. I'm not looking for this to turn into a bad Master bashing contest, but rather focus how those get past this crap! Any advice people can post for others to read, that have just been released from a Bad M/s relationship. Looking for people to exchange something positive out of the negatives. The things that have happened to me happened prior to bdsm being a part of my life but I believe the lessons still apply. The MAIN lesson I adopted/learned for myself was simple. No matter what I do; no matter how strict, open, difficult the relationships are that I enter into, regardless of what I call myself, I'll be in them until it no longer feels healthy for me. And when I'm feeling that what's happening is unhealthy - I'm gone. So far in the 9, nearly 10 years that I've been doing this now, this rule has kept me safe, kept me comfortable even when things can be difficult, and kept me confident. In short, it was me deciding to trust me first and recognizing that I can commit and submit even while making a committment to trust myself first and foremost - regardless of the style of relationship I enter into. With this rule in place, I can be happy, sad, euphoric, irritated, upset and sometimes admittedly, pissed off. But through it all, even during the more negative moments (and we all have them), when I begin to wonder what the hell is going on, I ask myself, "is this generally unhealthy to you?" If the answer is no, then I shrug, suck it up, and start thinking of how to discuss the negative stuff in such a way as to clear the air and not escalate what may be bothering me. Oh, and "unhealthy" to me means "Is what's happening making me feel badly about myself? Do I feel somehow 'less than'? (I've been there before and sure do know what that feels like.) Are the negative times more frequent than the positive times?" If the answer is yes to any and especially to all of these questions, then I'm SO out of there. juliet

MissPriss88 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 3:19:18 AM)
I am most definitely fortunate to have avoided any form of abuse in this world, but was a victim for many years in the vanilla world. First of all, if the abuse is still going on. Help get them out! Offer support: often people in abusive relationships (not everyone!) feel that there is no way out, no network of friends to lean on. Remind the person that whatever the situation is, it is NOT their fault. Many victims (not all!) of abuse, including myself, try and justify the abuse with their own perceived short comings. In my opinion, nothing can be more harmful than beating oneself up for years for something one didn't have any control over. Validate their feelings. Even if you don't understand them. Try to sit and listen from an unbiased perspective. They mostly just need an ear. Open them up to group counseling. As much as I hate to admit it, keeping things inside is never the answer. Talking with a group of people who have been there, done that, and (unfortunately) have the scars to prove it, has probably been one of the most helpful things I have done. Just remind them that they are not alone. When they are ready to move on and start a new relationship. Offer advice about potential partners. People tend to date the same kinds of people without even realizing it. Step in, in a non-threatening way. Introduce them to the message boards around here to see what other kinds of (normally functioning) relationships are out there. I have learned more about this world from the message boards than anything else. Hugs. Lots of them. I find that those are the best medicine. I remind the reader that my advice comes from what personal experience I have, and in no way wish to generalize anyone, or rile up bad memories. Only simple advice from the way I see best. allurette.

farieanne -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 3:30:39 AM)
my first experience in a D/s relationship became abusive. Not physically, but mentally and emotionally. i found out months. maybe a year, after the relationship ended that he only claimed to be a "Dom" because he knew of my involvement in the lifestyle. we were both pretty ignorant of how a D/s relationship worked. we were only together for a total of eight months and the last three months were spent me trying to get away from him. He never collared me and i never lived with him. i did give him complete control over my life. He began to isolate me from my friends and family. He took away things and activities that i truly loved and were really a part of who i was. i started to not know who i was, i felt very disconnected from myself. When he got mad at me he would yell and scream at me that i was bad, a bad person, a bad friend, a bad mate, a bad lover, and NOT a submissive. If i tried to explain myself he would accuse me of being argumentative and topping from the bottom. He even took my money and credit cards hostage. when thing did finally end i did not concentrate on what he did wrong. It was my mistake. i had to focus on what i did wrong. i jumped into a relationship not knowing what i was doing. i got involved and gave too much trust and control too soon. i went in not knowing what he would expect of me or how he thought and felt about being a Dominant. my Master that i am with now, and have been for more than two years, did not waste time coddling me and babying me, working through or around my issues. Instead He took the time to show me What kind of a man He was then what kind of Dom, How He felt about being a Dominate. He made sure i knew what would be expected of me and what my rules would be. This is by far the best relationship i have ever been in. i learned from my mistakes, slowed down and got to know my Master BEFORE i completely submitted to Him. i was aware that He wanted complete submission. i have no safe words, i have only the limits he allows me, and i have rules i must follow, i knew all thins before He collard me and before Wwe got married. Now Wwe live what feels like to me a fairytale and i find myself wondering when i am going to wake up, grins

farieanne -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 3:50:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissPriss88 Remind the person that whatever the situation is, it is NOT their fault. Many victims (not all!) of abuse, including myself, try and justify the abuse with their own perceived short comings. In my opinion, nothing can be more harmful than beating oneself up for years for something one didn't have any control over. allurette. This is so true. i kept telling myself it was my fault because i submitted to him and gave him the control. In all honesty it was my fault, that’s not really a bad thing. Wwe all make mistakes. i think what makes it bad is not fixing it, letting it continue. So i got out. i think this was a lesson from my childhood. smiles

AquaticSub -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 7:12:55 AM)
The only thing that I could call an abusive relationship I've been in was a long time ago and would have been emotional, not physical. Still, given our age and his general personality, I think it was more of him being a crappy boyfriend then anything else. But... I wonder if part of the reason subs and slaves have trouble getting out of situations that are actually abusive is the "thou shalt never leave" line of thinking that gets pushed around. I wonder if the people with that line of thinking scold and scorn these people as soon as they manage get themselves free, effectively destroying what should be a support network. I don't know, but it is a guess that doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 7:13:31 AM)
FR I tend to think for the most part it's just a magnification of issues most people already have- the insecurities, the fears, the lack of trust or the too eager need to find someone to trust. Instead of having some basic baggage, they'll have one huge lump of crap to get through, but it's still generally the same "stuff" that we all deal with to a certain extent.

dawntreader -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 7:31:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NoirUMC P.S. I gotta say, that word 'normal' threw me for a loop for a sec. :D Hehehe!!!

viperess -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 7:38:48 AM)
Greetings, What an interesting thread. Thank You to the OP. To me a M/s relation slips into the relm of abusive when there is harm involved. No i do not mean pain nor do i mean hurt but actual harm which can result in either physical or mental complications. As one who was in a very abusive M/s relation i can say it is hard to get out of one and for some like me once out i felt that i had failed as a slave because in my mind i must have done something, not done something, or failed at my tasks in order to have been abused. At the time i lived in a Gorean community that for the most part was very good about monitoring their own. i had always been taught that a slave never ever ever speaks unkindly of a present or past Master. Still today i will only say i was not the right fit for the Master that i served. i also will say that due to punishment received from His hands i was hospitalized two different times. One thing about living in a tight nit community is there are many different professionals including doctors and nurses which are the ones used if anything out of the ordanary occurs. The first time i was hospitalized it was accounted to dehydration and excessive sun exposure which since that was part of the reason and because to me i must have deserved it i went along with all that was said. The second time was due to severe caning that happened on two seperate days along with having my air supply cut of for a couple of minutes...word of this got back to the elders of the community and they can and spoke with me. After many tears and feelings of failure they went with me as i begged release from my Master. Afterwards i was taken in to a Masters home to recouperate and get my feet back under me. i was offered to go into treatment but i knew i needed to be around those who really understood and who would not treat me with kid glaves or make me feel even more worthless than i already felt. Abuse from someone you have placed your trust in is a hard thing to overcomeas it makes you doubt not only yourself and your judgement but also makes it hard to trust totally again. i was lucky to have others who choose to live as i do to help me through it and get on with my life. i will say i never once thought about leaving the way i live my life for to me i am and always will be a slave. To be able to look into my Masters eyes and know while He may hurt me He will never harm me is a true gift to me. To know i can place total control of my life in His hands and feel safe doing so is to me a wonderful feeling. For any who have been abused i do so feel for you as it does take time to work through the feeling it provokes but you can survive and move on with your life to find happiness and contentment. Respectfully,

slaverosebeauty -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 8:47:06 AM)
Every abusive relationship I have ever been in, in and out of M/s I have learned from. I get stronger, I learn more about myself, I move on and I grow. Many times my guard will go up for xyz length of time until I feel 'safe' again or until I find someone to help me trust again. I have a great group of friends lifestyel and vanilla who have helped me get trough abusive relationships and thats important to me. I lean on them, I vent, I scream, I cry, then I move forward; I don't believe in regrets, since everything in life is a learning experience and a potential for new groth, so that's how I look at those past abusive relationships. Right now, I consel women who are in relationships with drug addicts, and I haev to remind them over and over and over that their partner using drugs is NOT their fault; same things with 'M/s abusive relationships.' I don't like that 'victim' mentality, its hard to shake, but once the abused realizes that it was and is NOT their fault, or is reassured of that, hopefully that will help in recovery. Beign abused is a life altering at times, no easy quick fix. Time, patience, love from family and friends,a support system is paramount. Even the boards on here can be a way to heal. Right now, I am waiting by my cell day and night for a call from a woman I have been counceling, her husband is VERY abusive and is a drug addict on top of it; I have done all Ic an do, I can't make her leave him, the police can't and they have tried, we all have, its up to her. I wait for a call telling me their was an 'accident' or that she is finally ready to leave him. I have told her in as many ways as I can, its not her fault and that I love her. The rest is up to her. This is 'normal' 'batter partner syndrome.' I don't think their is much difference between that and beinh abused in an M/s relationship, maybe the severity or the context, otherwise, they are the same.

slaveluci -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 9:02:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Right now, I consel women who are in relationships with drug addicts quote: Right now, I am waiting by my cell day and night for a call from a woman I have been counceling, her husband is VERY abusive and is a drug addict on top of it; I have done all Ic an do "Consel"ing (or "counceling)" anyone is a very delicate endeavor. If this person is a family member or friend and is fully aware that you have no professional qualifications, that is fine, I suppose. If, however, you are representing yourself as someone who is trained and capable of professional counseling, I would think you should stop that immediately and let this person get real professional help. It may be very dramatic for you to feel like you are waiting by the cell, being her lifeline, a part of the action, so to speak. If something happens to her, I would think you would bear no small responsibility because, by acting as her "consel"or in lieu of a real one, you are impeding her search for actual professional assistance. It's not a game - advise her to seek help at the hands of someone who is trained to help her please............slave luci

slaveish -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 9:07:39 AM)
This is not an issue that is explicitly a "lifestyle" issue, although I believe it can be over-interpreted as such in light of many submissives' / slaves' belief that not allowing forms of abuse makes them less submissive. I daresay that there are many who will look back and say "Damn, that was just ~wrong~" with regard to ~any~ relationship, not just in the D/s or M/s dynamic. It's all about growing as a person, growing stronger in one's own individuality, and realizing that certain things that were acceptable to someone who could be a poster child for self-loathing is not acceptable for someone who knows where she is going and loves herself for who she is.

peepeegirl5 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 9:16:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Right now, I consel women who are in relationships with drug addicts quote: Right now, I am waiting by my cell day and night for a call from a woman I have been counceling, her husband is VERY abusive and is a drug addict on top of it; I have done all Ic an do "Consel"ing (or "counceling)" anyone is a very delicate endeavor. If this person is a family member or friend and is fully aware that you have no professional qualifications, that is fine, I suppose. If, however, you are representing yourself as someone who is trained and capable of professional counseling, I would think you should stop that immediately and let this person get real professional help. It may be very dramatic for you to feel like you are waiting by the cell, being her lifeline, a part of the action, so to speak. If something happens to her, I would think you would bear no small responsibility because, by acting as her "consel"or in lieu of a real one, you are impeding her search for actual professional assistance. It's not a game - advise her to seek help at the hands of someone who is trained to help her please............slave luci I counsel women who are in relationships with males where they both suffer from sexual corruption, (i.e. failure to recognize their true roles). I teach her the techniques that will bring their roles back into harmony with what the Goddess intends. Blessings and intense sexual bliss to all women and males who recognize their true roles. Domina Sancti

LaTigresse -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 9:18:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Right now, I consel women who are in relationships with drug addicts quote: Right now, I am waiting by my cell day and night for a call from a woman I have been counceling, her husband is VERY abusive and is a drug addict on top of it; I have done all Ic an do "Consel"ing (or "counceling)" anyone is a very delicate endeavor. If this person is a family member or friend and is fully aware that you have no professional qualifications, that is fine, I suppose. If, however, you are representing yourself as someone who is trained and capable of professional counseling, I would think you should stop that immediately and let this person get real professional help. It may be very dramatic for you to feel like you are waiting by the cell, being her lifeline, a part of the action, so to speak. If something happens to her, I would think you would bear no small responsibility because, by acting as her "consel"or in lieu of a real one, you are impeding her search for actual professional assistance. It's not a game - advise her to seek help at the hands of someone who is trained to help her please............slave luci Most definately! My dream someday is to create a facility for abused women that is BDSM, D/s, M/s, friendly. However, I am very aware I am NOT a trained professional and that the existance of this facility would require finding one to work with me. Over the years alot of people have come to me for life advise. I have learned that quite often, the best advise I can give them, get professional help. To do otherwise is irresponsible.

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