Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (Full Version)

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DeviantlyD -> Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/14/2007 11:01:06 PM)

Aloha!

A few years ago a Dom I met at a munch offered to train me. At that point I didn't have any true real life experiences. I was very curious and agreed, with a strict limit. In all fairness I guess I can't place the blame entirely on him because he never said he would agree to the limit - despite my making it VERY clear. As you can probably guess, at one point he didn't respect my limit and once that happened, I ended things. Based on things he later said, I think he realized he had crossed the line.

The experience made me think D/s was not for me. And it was only recently that I decided to venture into this world again.

I can't help think this man, who at the point I met him had only a couple of years of experience, believed he knew what being a Dom was all about but in reality really didn't. It was as if anything he said or wanted to do was all that mattered and my feelings were inconsequential. But he wasn't my Master, he was a trainer and so I feel his sense of entitlement wasn't deserved.

My question to any Doms reading this is, and trainers in particular, have you ever ignored a limit, either deliberately or otherwise? Would you agree or disagree with my sentiment that he wasn't entitled to behave as if he were my Master, without regard to my limits?

Thank you, in advance, for your responses.

D.




HeavansKeeper -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/14/2007 11:35:56 PM)

Hard limits should carry a protection from any master, dom, anyone.  They must be clearly explained, though, so both parties understand the severity.

At current, My Pet has no hard limits with me... But there are many things we haven't tried.  I have stepped over the line and punished her in cruel ways, when the mistake required a spank on the bottom and a slap on the wrist.  In our relationship, my use of psychological punishment has been extreme.  She once forgot to kneel when receiving a gift, and my response was to shower her with presents, not allowing her to kneel or thank me.  It was out of line, in my opinion.  I was wrong, but I don't regret it.  From the outside, it hardly seems like a punishment.  From the inside, it was heartless torture.  The look in her eyes and the sudden change of scents in the air are unforgettable.

I have pushed My Pet's comfort zones, and we both learned a lot from the experience.  If she ever told me she had a limit, I would respect it.  If I found it to be unjustified, I would question her, ensuring she has thought it out and her 'limit' is not just a fear.  Of course, this would only occur in limits I deam awkward.  I wouldn't ask her why scat is a limit, but I would be quick to test her faith in saying oral sex was a limit.

I am her trainer and owner, so I cannot speak of a difference in those 'ranks' of control.  In my opinion, even a slave's master is bound to two rules. 
1) She may always leave his service.
2) He may not use her hard limits, only work on removing them.

You have every right to feel that a man who does not respect your limits does not have your best interests in mind.  I admit my bias, I am not accustomed to the most hardcore aspects of slavery, but in today's world, a submissive or slave should only be in that position by choice.



Areflectionofyou -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 4:41:44 AM)

i met a Dom from collarme a few years back ...we talked a long time before meeting. When we met he crossed everyline imaginable. Including telling me he was gonna kidnap me and bring me back to Pa with him and id never see my kids again. He had the nerve to call me a few weeks later.....



nearnyccouple -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 4:55:44 AM)

So many say that a "true" slave has no limits and perhaps this is true. However it is within my travels that I have found that one must define "limit" what is a limit to one is a strong desire within another.

Having said that I agree with the sentiment you have put forth, if there is a violation of the agreed upon limits, whether agreed upon by verbal confirmation or by the implied agreement upon the beginning of your training. He did agree to those limits by implied consent because you were put under his wing.
James



juliaoceania -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 6:10:03 AM)

First of all I do not know how his role was as a "trainer" as a "trainer" trains in certain aspects of BDSM play or service... what specifically was he "training" you for? If I was going to get trained by anyone it would be an expert, not someone that had little experience as this fellow did.

If you choose to disallow your sub self because of one bad instance, I would ask how many bad dates or vanilla relationships have you had? Is it fair to judge all by the actions of one?


Some people like their limits pushed, some do not, it should be agreed to if they will be pushed or not within the context of the relationship. It is doubtful anyone would want their limits pushed by a self styled "trainer". You acted correctly in walking away. I would just state that now you have more knowledge it would be easier for you to avoid such pitfalls in the future... you will not take it as a given that a dom will respect your limits... this is something that should be talked about.

I would wonder about this person's reputation with other lifestylers at this munch... did they verify him being a trainer, and if so, what exactly did he train people for? Pony Play, shibari, Scrabble?



AquaticSub -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 6:26:57 AM)

If he said he wouldn't respect the limit, why the hell were you training with him? It's not just his responsibility to keep you safe, it's also yours.

Yes he crossed the limit and that is bad. But he also made it clear that he wasn't going to respect it.... so what made you think he would?



KatyLied -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 6:48:31 AM)

quote:

The experience made me think D/s was not for me. And it was only recently that I decided to venture into this world again.


By your own admission you agreed to "training" with someone who made it clear he would not respect your limits.  My advice is that you find the strength to hold firmly to your requirements.  Just because someone calls himself a "trainer" it is no guarantee that he is knowledgeable or experienced.





BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:04:03 AM)

I think we all have crossed the line a time or two,be honest its going to happen on occasions.The last time I crossed over was pushing a limit that I wish expanded.IT didn't hurt the situation,some times you just have the feel when you can go there or not...Just this ol' masters views on the sunject...



MHOO314 -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:07:30 AM)

NO, I have never crossed the line of limits----it doesn't matter if he was your master or not, blatant disregard for limits and safe calls, gets people killed and gives us all a bad name----idiot needs to face a bullwhip--and the safe word is More Mistress!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:12:30 AM)

That's the only training "trainers" are good for.  Teaching you that if you can't make good choices about partners, don't make any.

Think about it.  Nodoby can "train" someone for me, the entire concept is bullshit.  If you can't offer your advice without strings, you are an asshole.  If you have to use being a "trainer" to get into someone's pants who would otherwise reject you, you are an asshole.

If you are stupid enough to buy into the concept of training, you probably aren't quite ready to take on the responsiblity of doing healthy BDSM.



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:25:28 AM)

I agree with you MICHAEL,only you can train a slave to suit your personal needs,Diane and myself are often contacted by owners wanting to send their subs to us for some personal tweaking of a certain fetish.I tell them I am more then willing to offer advice and if they still need my services then send them on..Particular pony girl/boy training is at the top of the list followed by forced bi ETC.....I for myself prefer putting in the time with my own,its just some thing about personal hands on ..bounty



KatyLied -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:39:27 AM)

Michael, I agree that the entire "training" concept is a tool of manipulation.  That is why I put it, in my post with " ".



AquaticSub -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:40:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

NO, I have never crossed the line of limits----it doesn't matter if he was your master or not, blatant disregard for limits and safe calls, gets people killed and gives us all a bad name----idiot needs to face a bullwhip--and the safe word is More Mistress!


And subs have no responsibility to go "Hey this guy said he won't respect my limits - maybe he means just that and I shouldn't play with him?"?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:43:57 AM)

I'll dissent and say I've no problem sending someone off to be trained for a specific skill.  Cooking, cleaning, washing, mending, gardening, schooling- all that can be trained by someone else and frankly SHOULD be trained by someone else if the dom themselves isn't good at it.

But when it comes to the generalize "trainer" (most often a synonym for "I want to play and fuck but make it sound appealing and non threatening") I agree that it's pretty much BS.



KatyLied -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:50:05 AM)

quote:

But when it comes to the generalize "trainer" (most often a synonym for "I want to play and fuck but make it sound appealing and non threatening") I agree that it's pretty much BS.


I think that's what we are all talking about.
Training for a specific skill is different.
But "training" under the guise of doms thinking they can train you in some sort of acceptable universal sub/slave traits?  I think it's a load of (stinky) crap.  And a way for a dom to fulfill his knight in shining armor kink OR get some sex.



queencaliph -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:51:35 AM)

No, I have never crossed a hard limit with a sub.  I'm not sure I could ever forgive myself if I did.  I think in the back of my mind it may even be a fear of mine that I may go overboard with a sub one day.  I don't think anyone, whether Mistress, Dom/me, trainer or whatever has the right to cross a hard limit. And we must have enough self awareness and wisdom to put "self-restraints" on our own dominant personalities.   As a Dominant Woman I can wield a great deal of power over a sub and I know that power can easily corrupt a person.  I try to keep in mind at all times that the only difference between what I do and what an abuser does is the "safe, sane, and most importantly CONSENSUAL" rules of D/s. 

Just my 2 cents and probably worth about that much.[;)]



queencaliph -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 7:59:35 AM)

To me it always seemed that as the Dominant one and the one who is always controlling the scene (and the safety of it) I should be the one more in need of outside training than a sub.  Let''s face it there are a lot of D/s activities that are down right dangerous if a Dom/me doesn't know what S/he is doing.



JerryInTampa -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 8:36:44 AM)

Limits define consent. To cross a limit is to commit a crime: be it rape, battery, false imprisonment, etc (depends on the limit).

No. I have never deliberately crossed a hard limit line, nor would I ever. I have nothing but distaste for those who would.



robertolapiedra -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 1:57:38 PM)

Hello DeviantlyD. Yes, many times, but always unintentionally and never on an "hard" limit.

Hard limits, when well defined, mean "do not go there!" I do not go "there". An hard limit can change (in my case, it has more than once) following good clear communication, and consent to "baby stepping" to what ever is agreed upon.

Where unintentional "crossings" happened were with "soft" limits. These I usually play very close to the line, most of the time.

Being in a full time D/s relationship, I feel one gets to know the other sufficiently to risk the "envelope riding" kink. I have a tendency to play very close to the limit, and this usually serves to widen the "enveloppe" with time  and confidence.

One must remember that "soft" limits fluctuate. One example would be when you have high and low libido cycles. Another is with psychological context, stress, insecurity issues, etc.

There is a dynamic in soft limits, a comfort zone. This zone may widened for a short period as it may also shrink. Most of my unintentional "limit" crossings were when the soft limit "hardened" (or the comfort zone was smaller than usual) for temporary reasons as mentioned above.

I find that a submissive will rarely "blame" the dominant if the "limit" riding was done in a reasonable way. There is a difference between "crossing" over the line "one foot" and crossing it "one mile".

I hope this answers your question about "behaving" as if he was your "master". Not even a master, would "intentionally" do harm. I wish people would refrain from "automatically" equating domination with sadism (the non-consented kind! ). RL.

Edit: typo



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Trainers - Have you ever crossed the line on a limit? (6/15/2007 2:01:50 PM)

I have not deliberately ignored a limit. I have forgotten limits. I have also done things that were later regretted, but both of us. I have also pushed limits, but I was given the authority to do so.

Master Fire



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