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Medical Question - 6/16/2007 2:40:46 PM   
SirDraven


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/13/2006
From: Atlanta GA
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For those of you that have diabetes or serve masters that do...

How do you handle blood sugar issues before durring and after a scene?


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RE: Medical Question - 6/16/2007 3:44:18 PM   
MamaDomme


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I eat something protein filled (a peanut butter sandwich, eggs, steak, etc) and keep juice (100%, not fruit punch) and a snickers bar handy for sugar drops.

Also take care with skin breaks with a diabetic--- tends to be very slow healing.

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RE: Medical Question - 6/16/2007 6:34:28 PM   
DommeChains


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The above poster had good suggestions.  Also you should have a glucometer handy and know how to use it. I would strongly suggest checking the blood glucose (sugar) level before play and at anytime that the diabetic appears to be experiencing some distress like suddenly sweaty, pale, rapid breathing, states they feel faint.  These can be signs of a rapid, possibly dangerous drop in glucose levels.


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RE: Medical Question - 6/16/2007 7:09:15 PM   
JerryInTampa


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quote:

For those of you that have diabetes or serve masters that do...
Did you mean "or have slavevs that do"? You are in the "ask a Master" forum.

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RE: Medical Question - 6/16/2007 10:08:17 PM   
SirTyson


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From: Chicago, Il
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As DimmeChains stated, it's very important to watch for the those signs and to check sugar levels. I had a sub who was a diabetic and as her om it was my responsibility to both her and I to make sure we checked her sugar both before and after any sessions. It was also my resposibility to watch her closey during a session for those indicators since that was not something she could do herself. In fact we had two safe words, one was a regular safe word and the other was for when she felt sugar getting low.

I would also keep honey, fruit, and Orange Juice close by just incase and would make sure she hate both before and after a session as well to keep her sugar levels where they should be.

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RE: Medical Question - 6/16/2007 10:30:01 PM   
earthycouple


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a good sugar boost for someone who has passed out (yes it can happen) is a tube of gel icing found in the baking section of any grocery store.  You can put it in the buccal lining (cheek) and it is absorbed rather quickly.  Otherwise orange juice will help give a short acting boost.  Remember these boosts will wear off quickly if a long acting insulin isn't administered. Know the difference between Regular Insulin and 70/30.  (70/30 is a combo of long acting and quick acting)  Do your research with a physician or pharmacist. 

Don't administer anything without knowing your partner's needs for X ranges....usually something like if blood sugar is 90 - 110 do X, 111 - 120 do Y...etc.  You get the point.

Check the sugar with said glucometer that you already know how to use (as a previous poster suggested).  KNOW the insulin parameters for your top or bottom (not every one is a pretty 96 normally) and give sugars and/or sliding scale as prescribed by that person's physician

If they don't wake or sugar doesn't drop with prescribed regimine call an ambulance. 

Someone else mentioned healing time that is totally on point.  Small sores that seem like nothing can turn into ulcers that are stage 3 or 4 in no time and that little paper cut may take weeks to heal.

Also keep in mind that changes in a person's general health can alter their blood sugar levels.  Someone with a cold or a wound may be "off" even if they continue to do their normal routines.  Same goes with things like stress and undue anxiety.  It is amazing how very little things throw off our insulin levels.

And I again...check with a doctor and know your facts up front.  (This  is my best advice for any partner kink or otherwise who has a medical condition of any sort). 

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RE: Medical Question - 6/17/2007 9:06:42 AM   
MamaDomme


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>>fast reply<<

Just a side note---- if an insulin dependent diabetic has a sugar crash, the very last thing you do is give them a shot of insulin.  That could put them in a coma really fast.  A sugar crash requires simple carbs to raise it and then more complex carbs to keep it up.  If you have nothing else, a couple single packets of sugar pour under the tongue will help tremendously.

I've been insulin dependent for close to 40 years now and have experienced every extreme you can imagine.  For some reason, last October my pancreas started working again and for the first time in my life (since 9 years old) I am on no kind of meds at all.  I still check my glucose levels with my meter a couple times a day to make sure it's still working and I especially check it if I am playing.

I have found that cheese (hard cheeses, not spreads) and crackers make an excellent "after play" snack......... along with plenty of water.  Funny how water will effect your insulin also.

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RE: Medical Question - 6/17/2007 3:31:25 PM   
buggyboo


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i am very concerned with the post stating to give oral glucose to an unconscious patient. this is a big NO NO in medicine. DO NOT DO IT. if someone is unconscious they may have lost their gag reflex and thus may aspirate the oral glucose and develop nasty pneumonia. also never administer insulin to someone who is unconscious with out checking their sugar first. plain and simple, if a diabetic goes unconscious call 911 or emergency! you do not have the degree in medicing to calculate the appropriate insulin dosage. Paramedics who go to school for 2 years are not even allowed to administer insulin so what makes you think you can accurately dose for your sub/slave who is in DKA/hyperglycemic emergency?????

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RE: Medical Question - 6/19/2007 12:32:44 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDraven

For those of you that have diabetes or serve masters that do...
How do you handle blood sugar issues before durring and after a scene?



Okay, I'm not diabetic, but I'll bite...

First things first (disclaimer and advice):

I'm not a doctor.
Even if I were, I couldn't give proper medical advice over a forum.
Ask the diabetic's doctor or a KAP for proper advice.

Second, the most important piece of advice:

Until you have spoken to a Kink Aware Professional (KAP) about it in detail...
NEVER, ever, under any circumstance, let a diabetic restrict your freedom of movement (bondage, cages, etc.) or engage in play that doesn't automatically return to a safe state if they pass out, leave, etc... and do NOT engage in breath control.
If you take no other piece of advice, please take that one to heart.

That's what in other settings is known as "default to safe" or "fail open", which is to say that if the diabetic passes out, it is imperative that you be free to move about. Don't rely on being able to undo knots or "wiggling" your way out of a restraint. Don't enter cages or wear handcuffs behind your back. Don't do suspension play. Don't ever try breath control. Don't do things that cause a buildup of fear (i.e. panic response) if it isn't stopped manually, such as perforated bags over the head, etc. Don't use TENS units to the point where the cramps prevent you from moving freely enough to turn them off.

The two main reasons for this are simple enough: (a) if the diabetic passes out, you will need to contact the EMS personell via 911, 112 or whatever your local equivalent is, and will probably need to deal with the emergency in the mean time, and (b) if you are in a dangerous situation that requires the diabetic to be in control and able to abort, then that danger will become reality if they pass out.

While insulin pumps, proper care and planning, and so forth, can all serve to alleviate this risk, you should NOT rely on this until you have discussed the matter in-depth with a doctor who has access to the diabetic's medical history. The ideal doctor is one who is a listed Kink Aware Professional (link; click it), as they will be sensitive to (and familiar with) both sides of the issue.

Don't be afraid to discuss this with the diabetic's doctor ... they've heard "worse". All the time.

In short, the bottom/sub/slave does not want to watch their Top/Dom pass out and slowly die on the floor without being able to do anything, and the Top/Dom would not want their bottom/sub/slave to be traumatized, injured or killed because they couldn't escape a dangerous situation.

...On to the more superfluous advice...

Now, that probably sounded a bit like a rant or an overreaction, but it really isn't. Which is not to say that you can't play safely, just that the advice I'm adding here isn't an adequate substitute for qualified advice from someone who knows the diabetic in question. In that regard, this advice is superfluous, but I realize many just won't talk to a doctor, no matter how many people tell them to, so this is a "best effort" at addressing the issue...

Make sure the diabetic eats regularly and properly. Eating habits for a session should be like for a workout.

Measure the blood sugar level before and after every session to get an impression of how much it changes, and to make sure it is within the usual range before starting out. Also, since getting dizzy or wired during a session isn't all that uncommon, even for people who aren't diabetic, the body signals could get confusing, so the levels should be checked again if anything feels "off". Note that the partner should also know how to use the blood sugar meter, as some have already said.

Use safewords.

If the diabetic starts to show signs of blood sugar issues, the partner should stop the play if the diabetic fails to.

Keeping a sugar boost around is a good idea, as most have said. Both something that is a bit longer-lasting, and something for emergencies. The advice given by earthycouple about gel icing (just make sure it's not sugar-free!) sounds like a very good idea. What I've heard suggested, is to place it between the gums and the cheek, for faster absorption.

Basically, if there's a sugar drop, the boost will be useful. If there's too much blood sugar, the small boost will not significantly worsen things. Of course, it is better to rely on the blood sugar meter than to rely on this approach (which is usually recommended for when you don't have a clue as to whether the blood sugar is too low or too high).

If anyone drops unconscious, an ambulance should be called for anyway.

Also bear in mind that many diabetics have problems with the blood circulation in their extremities. Bondage, clamps and other things that can adversely affect blood flow should only be used with great care.

There are other auxillary problems that often pop up along with diabetes, as well, and learning how to deal with those as well is a Good Thing(tm). For instance, kidney function may be altered to the point where WS must be a rare and well-planned affair. And neuralgic pains might need dealing with, etc.

As for buggyboo, I don't think s/he got the idea, so I'll rephrase it:

An unconscious person should never be given anything to swallow, or that they might accidentally swallow. However, putting some gel between their gums and cheeks, or pouring a small amoung of sugar under their tongue, is a different matter.

Don't administer insulin yourself. Instead, make note of the blood glucose levels, and tell this to the people at the emergency medical services (EMS; US- 911, elsewhere- 112, usually). Also, tell them how long the person has been out, and inform them that you have the insulin kit available. If they think you should use it, they will tell you how much and when. The only time you should consider doing it yourself, is when there's no phone available to contact the EMS with, and I really can't offer any advice about that.

There's an endless number of physical and mental health complications that are entirely compatible with BDSM of (virtually) any kind, as long as the people involved take the time to acquire the skills required to deal with it in a responsible manner.

Hope some of this answers the question...

And, did I mention talking to the doctor about this?
Because you should talk to a doctor about it.
P.S.: Talk to the doctor.

Best wishes,
Aswad.
- who thinks the doctor is your friend on this.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to SirDraven)
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RE: Medical Question - 6/19/2007 5:24:54 AM   
MzMinx


Posts: 277
Joined: 12/26/2005
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My Mentor  was an insulin dependant diabetic .... and  he always ensured I had a way out of bondage .... there are special release joining clamps etc  ( i dont know their offical names )  that allow for quite tight bondage ... but also allowed one handed release when required ... it took concentrated effort on my behalf   to trigger them ....but he always ensured they where in a  position I could reach ....  even if blindfolded or  any other extreme 

interestingly enough .... after he made sure I understood how to trigger the release ...  in  all the years we explored  it never occured to me that i could 'escape' ... I always felt incrediably  restrained and held ... because it was always his mind that held me, far  more than any specific physical restraint .... so it never lessened the impact or depth of what we experienced

I do know that if something had happened, I would have been able to get myself released and get him help,... and  I believe  that like many other things that  he did to ensure safety   .. this care and attention to detail allowed me to travel deeper into subspace ... because it hightened the trust I had in his abilities and in his decissions and thought patterns about careing for me  and thus I could give him  more authority and control

He ensured I understood the issues and treatments for sugar lows ... and how to watch out for highs that might impair his judgement

He  taught me to ensure that there was always something sweet on hand that he could reach easily .... eg honeyed tea .. or milky sweet coffee .... as well as juice .... and  I would always have a snacks of protien, complex carbohydrates and fruit etc  on hand,  easily reachable and already in bite sized peices for him

He had many other  rituals and checks to ensure he was in the right physical and mental  shape to explore .... and I am sure he sometimes changed his mind about what activities he would explore according to his level of strength and  claryity of mind,  taht at teh time I was unaware of,  but I did know the signs of lows and highs, and he always freely shared information about his health status and emotional balance with me, so we could both make informed choices and as much as i trusted himwith my life, I knew I could always  share any concerns I had about his health.

and I agree  that no one should give someone  else insulin without some very seriouse training and knowledge.... we did have spare inusilin and needles kept at my house, in the fridge ( as he didnt live with me ) just in case he forgot his or stayed longer than we had planned, but they where for him to inject  not me .....  

I  was expected to always double check that he had had his insulin, checked blood sugars  etc before we ever played in a way that would put me in a  restrictied physical environment ... not because I was responsible for him... but just because I was a responsble adult and cared deeply for him and myself.

I may have submitted to him but that did not abdicate my responsability to ensure I used my intelligence and skills


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RE: Medical Question - 6/19/2007 9:04:55 AM   
shamedmale


Posts: 135
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how should someone who suffers from depression approach a dominant

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RE: Medical Question - 6/21/2007 4:49:19 AM   
FreeSpiritSpero


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how do you know if your Dom is ok, not having a seizure when blindfolded?

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RE: Medical Question - 6/21/2007 7:57:50 AM   
Minette


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From: New Brunswick Canada
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 A former close friend of mine (I moved away) is a diabetic. When his sugars drop, he becomes beligerant and sometimes very angry & confused (not unlike a mean drunk). You would have to be familiar with the diabetic when this condition occurs, on an individual, personal basis. My friend took  my word for it when his sugars dropped, or his wife's word...nobody elses. That made the incidents scary. He was capable of some unpredictable  behavior  when he was in this state. I know not all diabetics are the same, but communication is key.

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RE: Medical Question - 6/21/2007 8:45:18 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


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I am insulin depended and with proper management you can do any thing you want,keep track by testing and I keep a reg soda and hard candy in the truck when I feel the least drop I take several drinks...Even with hard play a diabetic can participate,WE share a pain toy and she is insulin dependent as well...Even on the rack we are always monitoring even very health folks...Meters are so small theses days that you can check your sugar level any where without drawing lots of attention...bounty

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RE: Medical Question - 6/27/2007 3:42:01 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shamedmale

how should someone who suffers from depression approach a dominant


The same way as anyone else ... talk to them.

And, since that wasn't self-evident, another bit of advice: be clear that you will not allow them to attempt to treat it.

But the smartest (IMO) way is probably to get treatment anyway.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Medical Question - 6/27/2007 3:48:24 PM   
Aswad


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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FreeSpiritSpero

how do you know if your Dom is ok, not having a seizure when blindfolded?


If your Dom is prone to seizures, e.g. epilepsy, then you have several ways of doing this:

One or more small bells will detect convulsive seizures, as well as the hitting-the-floor part.
Holding something in your hand that will make a loud noise on hitting the floor will detect absence seizures and cataplexy.
Complex partial seizures are more difficult to deal with, and depend on the exact nature of the seizure.

There are dogs that will bark at an impending seizure, though nobody quite knows how they do it yet.
Those do seem to be highly reliable, though, and dogs "understand" D/s and light play.
(Not in the sense that you'd want them in the scene, but most can "get" that you're not being attacked.)

When looking for a way to detect things, just run through some scenarios, and at every stage of each scenario think "how can I detect it at this point?". In the end, you'll have a list of ideas, and you'll note that a few of them will work for 90% of the scenarios, and detect things early on.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to FreeSpiritSpero)
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