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"Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene Poo... - 6/17/2007 5:11:24 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		"Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene Pool"
 
By Jason Szep
June 14, 2007

" COLORADO CITY, Arizona, June 14 (Reuters) - In a dusty neighborhood under sheer sandstone cliffs studded with juniper on the Arizona-Utah border, a rare genetic disorder is spreading through polygamous families on a wave of inbreeding.
 
The twin border communities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona, have the world's highest known prevalence of fumarase deficiency, an enzyme irregularity that causes severe mental retardation brought on by cousin marriage, doctors say.

"Arizona has about half the world's population of known fumarase deficiency patients," said Dr. Theodore Tarby, a pediatric neurologist who has treated many of the children at Arizona clinics under contracts with the state.
 
"It exists in a certain percentage of the broader population but once you get a tendency to inbreed you're inbreeding people who have the gene there, so you markedly increase the risk of developing the condition," he said.
 
The community of about 10,000 people, who shun outsiders and are taught to avoid newspapers, television and the Internet, is home to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS), a sect that broke from the mainstream Mormon church 72 years ago over polygamy.

The group, who wear conservative 19th-century clothing, is led by Warren Jeffs, who was arrested in August and charged as an accomplice to rape for using his authority to order a 14-year-old girl against her wishes to marry and have sex with her 19-year-old cousin.

Doctors in the area declined requests for interviews and families refuse to talk to reporters. But former FLDS members, independent doctors and authorities say the disorder appears to have struck at least 20 children in the past 15 years.

"The disease itself is very rare in the rest of the world," said Dr. Vinodh Narayanan of Arizona's St. Joseph's Hospital & Medical Center and Barrow Neurological Institute. Doctors worldwide had only studied about 10 cases just a decade ago.

"Once you get people within in the same community marrying, then the chances grow of having two people carrying the exact same mutation."

(click on the link for the rest of the article and photos)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/Story?id=3278090&page=1

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/17/2007 5:18:45 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Just one question, where would one buy "conservative 19th century clothing?"
Old Navy maybe?

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/17/2007 5:31:13 PM   
windchymes


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Status: offline 		Burlap sacks and a Singer treadle sewing machine :)

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/17/2007 6:22:10 PM   
bbw2switch


Posts: 59
Joined: 6/5/2007
From: toronto
Status: offline 		One can only hope (and pray) that "the holy parent" sees these misdeeds, and finds a way for those who are suffering.

Other than that, what are we to do? Except sit, watch and hope they do hear that voice of "god."
Is it that only Warren Jeff's is the only one who can?  Or is it that he won't let other's listen.


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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/17/2007 6:37:19 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Ironic, because the whole purpose of polygyny (genetically speaking) is to BROADEN the gene pool.

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/17/2007 11:31:58 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Fast reply -
 
I think that most likely they do make their own clothing as a way of "teaching proper duties" to the young girls.
 
And the irony of the shrinking gene pool is very obvious and unfortunately tragic for those born with the genetic mutations.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 2:26:59 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Surely this is great news for the cult itself though? Severe mental retardation being an ideal condition for members?

Anyway, its clearly the will of their God and none of our business - except when they want treatment for the conditions which our evil scientific cunning enables us to provide of course. Strange how they want the treatment, but ignore our blasphemous advice about genetics, but if we would wish to fathom their reasoning, we would have to convert first. An initiation which requires the laying on of a 2x4 presumably?

E

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 5:00:39 AM   
petdave


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Status: offline 		There are increasing numbers of genetic problems occurring with the Amish as well... tough to recruit new blood.

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 5:29:30 AM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		The LDS church was forced to give up their RELIGIOUS practice of polygamy as a
condition of statehood.

So much for freedom of relgion.

That said polygamy is still not legal and therfore is our business when the practice thereof
effects the children born to them.



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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 6:21:25 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

There are increasing numbers of genetic problems occurring with the Amish as well.


Mennonites too.  In my geography, blindness seems to be a problem in many families.  Two or three kids in the same family who are blind.


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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 7:36:45 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		So here we have two opposite ends of the spectrum. I love irony, especially when it is so true. As you all know I proclaim to be a racist but not a bigot. So let me make this statement first :

Diversity kills itself. Some interracial relatioships will occur, but if they are the norm, prevalent and common, what happens is the population is more and more mixed. Eventually, as Redd Foxx said, after the next war, everybody will be brown. If nobody preserves their heritage and race by mating with those of similar heritage, that is lost. Then we have a neo-heritage.

I shall not comment on whether this is good or bad, but it is a fact of life. The fact is, eventually everybody will be the same. Then there is no diversity.

While I do not laud these sectarian groups who isolate themselves from the bigger gene pool, I believe they have a point. The problem is that they carry it to the opposite extreme. Actually Jews have the same problem, but not as severe.

Someone with higher math skills could figure it out, for example, take ten families and only the kids of these ten families will intermarry, with noone else. How many generations are likely to pass before the "cousin syndrome" occurs ? Indeed, how long until they are literally all cousins ? Now take and do that with 100 families for example.

The answer is, it takes alot longer. For any who might be logistically impaired, "takes alot longer" means it is GOING to happen anyway.

In fact if you un-grasp the mathematical formulae and embrace the math itself, it is clear that this will happen to the entire human race if we somehow manage not to destroy ourselves first. The numbers are too immense, and it would be a long time, but there is no doubt.

So there is no answer. Optimally there would be a limited amount of interbreeding, and people would be careful who they have kids with, but that only extends the cycle. What cycle you might ask ?

The life cycle of the human race.

At least as we know it. I am not saying that it is hopeless, and a day comes when no Man walks the Earth, not at all. Actually if we each get our fair share of life, what do we care if there are eventually no more like us ? But that is not going to happen.

As the human race reaches this point of critical mass so to speak, where other people are seen as pests, terrorists, infidels, heathens, whatever name they choose to give it this century, this is the backslide.

I have no despair about this. We are a decadent society which IIRC is what the Russians used to say. The root of the word decadent is decay. Not a very nice way to put it, but true.

There was a time when kids couldn't read, but they could survive out in the woods indefinitely. There was a time when people unable to eek out an existence somehow, died.

Those were the times that gave birth to these cults and whatnot where one guy is directing all the mating, telling 16 and 19 year old kids to have kids, for example. Or the Mormons thinking it's OK to have a bunch of Wives.

Actually this worked well a long time ago. They would live, work and fight together for all. It was one for all and all for one. This would work well in a harsh environment, uncharted territory etc.

I think the greatest folly of Mankind has been choosing the wrong leaders. If the leader of the Polygamist Community had any fucking brains he would not want 16 year olds having kids, or even sex today. He is not a leader, he is a fucking pervert, and I don't mean it in a nice way, like us folk.

If they live their lives in a true communist style, by that I mean like in a commune, so be it. With proper leadership they can all have very rewarding lives, carreers all that. Those with earning power can go out and bring in some money, others work the farm, others cook, and so forth. Others who might be able to go make money might stay home to teach the young. And not no fucking religious end of the world goobletygook. Math, science, engineering, languages.

It CAN work, it HAS worked in the past, but like anything else it has poisoned itself in the worst way. They can't find a true leader.

And if you peruse this, and other forums you might see there is a consensus, we can't find true leaders either. I'll close with this, which I think quite profound :

The People hunger so badly for a true leader they elect anyone with some charisma, and somehow found the way to be presented to them. It has now gotten to the point that if a true leader were to emerge, the People wouldn't recognize it if he ,,,,,,,,,, wouldn't matter what he did I think.

If that weren't true, answer me this : Why do the candidates have to look their best ? Why do they need speechwriters ?.

T

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 10:48:24 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		I truely feel for the children in this areas, yet, for the adults, its called KARMA. God is trying to tell them something; they should listen.  Warren Jeffs is a sicko; the guy needs to be thrown into a cell and never seen or heard from again.

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 12:02:35 PM   
KatyLied


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From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

God is trying to tell them something; they should listen.


So, god is trying to tell them something by hurting children?  This does not sound like a god worth knowing. 
I think it's more like nature trying to send them a signal to consider diluting their gene pool.


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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 3:08:04 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
quote:

God is trying to tell them something; they should listen.


So, god is trying to tell them something by hurting children?  This does not sound like a god worth knowing. 
I think it's more like nature trying to send them a signal to consider diluting their gene pool.


Nature,or God in this case, different words for the same thing. God is NOT hurting the children, the adults are. What is happening is a result of a decision by ADULTS, not by nature or by God. What you are calling 'nature' I call God in this case. God gave free-will, and it looks like thoes who had free-will have chosen to 'abuse' their children. Time for the State to take over, or at least people with their heads on straight on care about these children.

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 4:38:23 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Or the Mormons thinking it's OK to have a bunch of Wives.



Well, that is not exactly what happened.

First off, there is a slightly larger number of male births to female births, something like 1.2 to 1.  The reason for this is that infant mortality is slightly higher for men.

Couple that with being a group of city people climbing in wagons and crossing into the frontier and being hit by diseases, native american fighting, etc.

Arrive in Salt Lake City, establish the promised land.  Discover within a generation that women outnumber men by some huge percentage. 

How does one ensure the survival of the religion and group when the population is not even replacing itself, much less increasing.

Couple this with a religion based around the idea that the Man gets into Heaven and takes his wife with him.  In other words, to a Mormon, an unmarried woman is doomed to eternal torment.

Then take the Book of Mormon providing the ability of people to be married in temple, without every consummating, so that women can go into heaven.  I have no idea how many wives I have to the Mormons (my heritage two generations back, and they do keep track) but I doubt it is less than 5.

The people in charge have to make a decision, face the extinction of their religion, or apply their religious tenets to the reality of bringing Mormon children into the world.  The decision becomes easy.  Allow polygamy to be consummated in reality ensures a strong bloodline.

Utah, when they applied to be a state, outlawed polygamy and threw all the polygamists into prison.  I have a picture of my great-great grandfather in prison for polygamy on my wall.  (He does not look remotely repentant, mind you) where he languished until Utah was admitted as a state.  Then it was time to go home, deal with the squabbling (The Japanese character for "trouble" is three of the characters for woman under the character for roof.), and whatever.

Marraige ceremonies in temple are not legally binding, but I have dozens (possibly triple digits) of first, second, and third cousins in Utah.  It is not reasonable to assume polygamy is not practiced to this day, although most people are unwilling to admit to committing a felony.

Sinergy

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 5:01:06 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		You've got some things mixed up.

Polygamy was a practice of the mormons well before they arrived in Utah. Joseph Smith and his brother were killed by a mob after they destroyed a newspaper near their Illinois town that had published the details of their marriage practices.

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/18/2007 5:23:37 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Termyn8tor:
Your understanding of genetics is somewhat flawed.  I would have us all note that the oldest society on the planet (essentially pre-stone age and unchanged in over 6000 years of recorded history) has a limited gene pool significantly less than a million people and live in an area of less than half the size of Utah.  They do not suffer from the diseases that have been mentioned in this thread.  Live to be quite old by western standards and never choose charismatic individuals to be their leaders.
They have never had a war.  They do not have unplanned pregnancies and do not have a word for rape.
whodathunkit
thompson

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/19/2007 12:25:40 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You wouldn't be talking about Tibet would you ? Seems to fit.

And I know about the antics of Lord Kurzon.

Stop the planet, I have decided that I want to get off.

T

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/19/2007 12:36:58 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You've got some things mixed up.

Polygamy was a practice of the mormons well before they arrived in Utah. Joseph Smith and his brother were killed by a mob after they destroyed a newspaper near their Illinois town that had published the details of their marriage practices.


Been wrong before, will be wrong again.

I suspect a surplus of child-bearing age women was the reason Mormonism allowed polygamy, although it might have been a guy who locked himself in a closet and wrote a holy treatise based on Golden Tablets that only he could read with seeing stones, which God took back when he had copied them, might have been a twisted sexaholic pervert.

Kinda odd that people would object to that on a BDSM web site.

If you get a chance, rent the South Park episode about the Mormons.  Truly hilarious.

Sinergy

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RE: "Polygamist Community Drowning in its own Gene... - 6/19/2007 5:28:55 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You wouldn't be talking about Tibet would you ? Seems to fit.

And I know about the antics of Lord Kurzon.

Stop the planet, I have decided that I want to get off.

T

Termyn8tor:
The Tibetans are hardly pre-stone age, they grow crops, weave fabric, smelt metals and fabricate metal tools and consumer goods.  I was referring to the Mbuti (pygmies) of central Africa whose presence is recorded in stone by the ancient Egyptians more than six thousand years ago.
The shenanigans of Lord Kurzon are well documented.  I have no doubt that the cosmic isostosy will level the field to his everlasting chagrin.
As for stopping the planet, I checked with the driver and have been informed that there are to be no unscheduled stops.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 6/19/2007 5:32:03 AM >

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