US Immigration Law (Full Version)

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LotusSong -> US Immigration Law (6/17/2007 9:48:18 PM)

After all the discussion on the US immigrationLaws...no one has asked this:
 
Do the Canadians have any problem with our laws on immigration?



Stephann -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 6:16:06 AM)

My understanding is that it's infinately easier for Canadians to get Visas to work, live, and eventually become citizens if they choose.  Statistically speaking, though, they are also less likely to enter and work in the US illegally, are better educated, and possess better job skills than their Mexican counterparts.

The issue of immigration has nothing to do with people coming into the US.  It has everything to do with xenophobia, the exploitation of an already broken welfare system, and the political capital to be earned by defending/demonizing a segment of people who cannot vote.

Stephan



LotusSong -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 8:29:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

The issue of immigration has nothing to do with people coming into the US.  It has everything to do with xenophobia, the exploitation of an already broken welfare system, and the political capital to be earned by defending/demonizing a segment of people who cannot vote.

Stephan


 
And still they come.  I wonder why.  It's a no win situation.



cyberdude611 -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 8:44:12 AM)

So bassically if I am against illegal immigration....that makes me a xenophobe?

Every nation on this planet has the right to defend its borders. You can't just walk into any country you damn well please. The world doesnt work that way.
That's the problem with you open-border advocates. You can't win this debate without calling opponents either racist ot xenophobe. I don't give a damn a person's nationality or skin color is. There is a legal process defined about how someone comes into the United States legally. If you come in here illegally, you have committed a crime.

It is also no business of Canada or Mexico as to what the US decides to do with immigration law.



Alumbrado -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 3:43:15 PM)

Damn straight they have a problem with US immigration

Anybody tried to walk across the Canadian border and start a business there without documentation lately? 



LadyEllen -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 3:55:47 PM)

Surely any immigration problem only arises when there is an insupportable influx of population to a country? And surely this is only likely to occur, when that influx is moving from a place with poor conditions to a place with better conditions?

For Canadians to experience problems with US immigration laws is therefore rather unlikely, and it is more probably the case that US citizens will experience problems with Canadian immigration laws.

God save the Queen (cause no one else will)

E

PS - sorry Lotus; too good an opportunity to miss!



popeye1250 -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 4:01:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

My understanding is that it's infinately easier for Canadians to get Visas to work, live, and eventually become citizens if they choose.  Statistically speaking, though, they are also less likely to enter and work in the US illegally, are better educated, and possess better job skills than their Mexican counterparts.

The issue of immigration has nothing to do with people coming into the US.  It has everything to do with xenophobia, the exploitation of an already broken welfare system, and the political capital to be earned by defending/demonizing a segment of people who cannot vote.

Stephan


 
Ahhhhhhhhh, that "segment of people who can't vote" "can't vote" because they're in the country *Illegally*.
"Xenophobe", isn't that one of those "politically correct" words?
"Fear of foreigners" or some such nonsense?



LadyEllen -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 4:09:07 PM)

Xenophobe is a valid enough word Popeye - but it does get pulled out as the ace, doesnt it?

Complain about illegal immigrants - because theyre in your country illegally, not because of their origin, and one is branded a racist, bigoted xenophobe. The problem being though, that reasonable objectors, objecting at the illegality, are infiltrated by those with a definite racist, bigoted, xenophobic agenda. We must chuck out the nazis - who wear suits and ties and speak nicely so as to go unnoticed, before we can ever have a sensible debate on the subject.

E



popeye1250 -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 4:15:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Xenophobe is a valid enough word Popeye - but it does get pulled out as the ace, doesnt it?

Complain about illegal immigrants - because theyre in your country illegally, not because of their origin, and one is branded a racist, bigoted xenophobe. The problem being though, that reasonable objectors, objecting at the illegality, are infiltrated by those with a definite racist, bigoted, xenophobic agenda. We must chuck out the nazis - who wear suits and ties and speak nicely so as to go unnoticed, before we can ever have a sensible debate on the subject.

E


Lady Ellen, evidently these "politically correct" people like our laws only when it suits them.
Does calling someone "xenophobic" then "trump" our laws?
"You're "xenophobic."
"Oh, ok, we'll just suspend our Immigration Laws all for you."
They even use the wrong word.
It applies to "foreigners" not to people who sneak into a country *Illegally.*



LadyEllen -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 4:21:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, evidently these "politically correct" people like our laws only when it suits them.
Does calling someone "xenophobic" then "trump" our laws?
"You're "xenophobic."
"Oh, ok, we'll just suspend our Immigration Laws all for you."
They even use the wrong word.
It applies to "foreigners" not to people who sneak into a country *Illegally.*


That was half of my point Popeye - we have the same problem here whenever we try to debate race relations or immigration and the like; someone shouts "racist" - with the understandable result that no one will debate those subjects out of fear. It then becomes more expedient to look the other way than to engage the subject, and that extends to enforcement too in many cases.

We let hundreds of illegal immigrants who had been found guilty of criminal offences whilst in the UK, go free when they had served their sentences. These werent minor offences mind you - rape, paedophilia, murder, attempted murder, and they ought to have been deported immediately on completion of their sentences, but they werent. The government says its because of an inter-departmental mix up - but I suspect that no one in any department wanted to handle such a hot potato, you know?

E



popeye1250 -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 5:20:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lady Ellen, evidently these "politically correct" people like our laws only when it suits them.
Does calling someone "xenophobic" then "trump" our laws?
"You're "xenophobic."
"Oh, ok, we'll just suspend our Immigration Laws all for you."
They even use the wrong word.
It applies to "foreigners" not to people who sneak into a country *Illegally.*


That was half of my point Popeye - we have the same problem here whenever we try to debate race relations or immigration and the like; someone shouts "racist" - with the understandable result that no one will debate those subjects out of fear. It then becomes more expedient to look the other way than to engage the subject, and that extends to enforcement too in many cases.

We let hundreds of illegal immigrants who had been found guilty of criminal offences whilst in the UK, go free when they had served their sentences. These werent minor offences mind you - rape, paedophilia, murder, attempted murder, and they ought to have been deported immediately on completion of their sentences, but they werent. The government says its because of an inter-departmental mix up - but I suspect that no one in any department wanted to handle such a hot potato, you know?

E


Lady, as far as I'm concerned people who use "PC" to try to instill fear in others or to control their thoughts are cousins to 1930's Nazi Germany.
They were very "PC" too, wearn't they?
You people in England need to get a handle on your government!
As far as I'm concerned "pc" people are some of the most vile, disgusting, anal-retentive, manipulative cowards on the planet.
They should be "put down" just like the Nazis.
There is no place in a free society for that type of  thinking.



thompsonx -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 5:42:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

So bassically if I am against illegal immigration....that makes me a xenophobe?

Every nation on this planet has the right to defend its borders. You can't just walk into any country you damn well please. The world doesnt work that way.
Yes it does.  That is how you and I got here.  Our ancestors walked in here and murdered the people who lived here and took it as our own.  With the possible exception of Alaska every inch of the U.S. was taken at the point of a gun.   Then we make discriminatory immigration laws to keep out those whom we do not want.  Then we justify our xenophobia by beating our breast and crying criminal at anyone who seeks to do what our ancestors did.


That's the problem with you open-border advocates. You can't win this debate without calling opponents either racist ot xenophobe.
That is a false choice.  No one is calling for an open border just an equal shot at immigration.  Those who oppose that concept are in fact bigots and xenophobes...since any educated person recognizes that there is but one race on this planet (the human race) racist is an archaic term that essentially defines bigot.

I don't give a damn a person's nationality or skin color is. There is a legal process defined about how someone comes into the United States legally. If you come in here illegally, you have committed a crime.

It is also no business of Canada or Mexico as to what the US decides to do with immigration law.
I would agree with this with the caveat that it is not the business of the U.S. to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries (which we do constantly)



OrionTheWolf -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 5:50:11 PM)

Just fucking enforce the laws that are already on the books. Has anyone else ever tried to immigrate to other industrial nations? Take a look at Germany's or Australia's immigration laws. It doesn't matter, the US is evil, everything it does is evil, and it should be split into seperate countries, the military dissolved and the impoverished of the world should split the wealth.

Am I xenophobic? Yeah I scare myself.

Orion



KenDckey -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 6:02:47 PM)

Hey Thompson   Here is my intrepretation of what you told cyberdude.  

It is ok to allow people to come across our borders because of the sins of our forefathers.  Just doesn't make sense.   Unless we go back to the rule of law at that time which made it ok for us to just shoot anyone that we considered inferior (I am not advocating this  I am putting it in only as an example)

I believe that our contry has grown up some, changed, and is better educated and better able to cope than before.   So my question is, do our laws make us xenophobic or does it make us a land where the rule of law is important to people and that where they come from is not important as much as how they got here (legally or illegally).   In my case, I don't care where they came from, what color they are.   I just want to see them come legally.  Follow the rule of law.   Not the way our ancestors did - with intent of destroying the culture that is already there.



thompsonx -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 6:20:55 PM)

k of
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Hey Thompson   Here is my intrepretation of what you told cyberdude.  

It is ok to allow people to come across our borders because of the sins of our forefathers.  Just doesn't make sense.   Unless we go back to the rule of law at that time which made it ok for us to just shoot anyone that we considered inferior (I am not advocating this  I am putting it in only as an example)

I believe that our contry has grown up some, changed, and is better educated and better able to cope than before.   So my question is, do our laws make us xenophobic or does it make us a land where the rule of law is important to people and that where they come from is not important as much as how they got here (legally or illegally).   In my case, I don't care where they came from, what color they are.   I just want to see them come legally.  Follow the rule of law.   Not the way our ancestors did - with intent of destroying the culture that is already there.


KenDcky:
If that is what you got from my post to cyberdude then it is clear that you need a class in remedial reading. I had no idea that English was not your mother tongue.  My apologies
thompson



Eldritchdancer -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 6:53:37 PM)

Once upon a time, in the United Nations Court, Canada sued the US over their illegal immigrant population. They contended that the USA did not properly enforce its own laws, thereby allowing people access to the Canadian Border. They even alluded that the USA encourages illegals from Mexico to cross into Canada, to get them out of the country.

And Canada won.

I, personally, believe there should be a 20 foot wall about 50 feet inside the US Border, with a token fence (like there is now) on the Border itself. In addition, I believe that anyone attempting to cross the border, save for at established checkpoints, should be KILLED.

Master Darkmoon



cyberdude611 -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 7:04:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

That's the problem with you open-border advocates. You can't win this debate without calling opponents either racist ot xenophobe.
That is a false choice.  No one is calling for an open border just an equal shot at immigration.  Those who oppose that concept are in fact bigots and xenophobes...since any educated person recognizes that there is but one race on this planet (the human race) racist is an archaic term that essentially defines bigot.


My family came here legally. They came through Ellis Island and they were forced to cough to make sure they were not carrying disease. And they forbid their native language in their home. When they had kids here, they forced them to learn english and never taught them how to speak their native tongue. Why? Because my great-grandfather believed you had to speak English to be successful in an English-speaking country. He learned it. He forced his kids to learn it.

Something else I don't understand about immigrants of today. I drive by these Cubans or Mexicans and they have their country's flag plastered all over their car. What the hell did they come here for if they love their country so much? My reletives that came here didn't do that. They came here and wrapped themselves with the American flag. And they sure as hell didn't march in the streets of America waving a foreign country's flag.

Most of these immigrants that are here today would not die for America. They are only here for work. They make money and they send it back their country. And that's it. If we become involved in some major world war and we start up the draft.... 90% of these immigrants would run back across the border.



onmykneesforhim -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 8:19:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

After all the discussion on the US immigrationLaws...no one has asked this:
 
Do the Canadians have any problem with our laws on immigration?


  I thought Canada was the 51st or 52 nd state of the US of A.



Stephann -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 8:37:36 PM)

Briefly,

Illegal immigration isn't directly linked to xenophobia.  Xenophobia is linked to immigration policy. 

I fully support rigid enforcement of laws.  Deportation is A OK with me.  What I don't support, is the broken welfare system that enables the survival of immigrants (and indeed citizens) with no skills.  What is missing is an adequate, self sustaining social services system, that provides language, job, family planning, and quality of life education.  The ACLU might howl slavery, but why not implement a voluntary program where workers sign up for on the job training courses that teach more than just how to scrub toilets and mop floors; they could include the necessary skills and education that they require to be long term citizens.  They could also be expected, as a condition of their OTJ employment, to pay for this program wholly (perhaps 15% of their pay check or some such.)  This would not only ease their transition from one country to another, but also make their obvious goal (assimilation to our society) rewarding.  Those who do not complete this program successfully could be denied their green cards, and deported.  Such a program is unthinkable, of course, because it forces our nation to recognize these individuals as living, breathing human beings instead of 'potential terrorists.'

The fact is, ifi the influx is unsupportable, it is because we choose not to support it.  If it rains, we can build gutters to funnel the rainwater, or we can watch it crash down all around our houses and flood our streets.  A little planning is what is needed; not a bigger fence.  But, as I suggested, it makes too juicy of a political target to merit an honest, serious solution by our political machinery.  McCarthy would be proud.

Stephan






Arpig -> RE: US Immigration Law (6/18/2007 9:03:10 PM)

I am a Canadian and I personally don't give a fuck about US immigration laws



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