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What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:31:25 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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After reading a similar post on here, I want to ask the Master's a question.
What qualities and level of experience does a person need to have in order to call himself a Trainer?

Is it similar to a 4 year college degree program?
Is it based on how many submissives or slaves you have had?
Is it based on how many techniques you know and your ability to use a whip?
Is it based on an age requirement? In other words, do you need to be over 25?
Can a person under 25 be a Master?
Is it something that you can decide that you are, after reading the message boards?
Is it something that you can become from reading a couple of books on BDSM?

I look forward to some fun debate.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/18/2007 7:33:22 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

Post #: 1

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:34:29 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
After reading a similar post on here, I want to ask the Master's a question.
What qualities and level of experience does a person need to have in order to call himself a Trainer?

Is it similar to a 4 year college degree program?
Is it based on how many submissives or slaves you have had?
Is it based on how many techniques you know and your ability to use a whip?

I hesitate to give something absolute here, but certainly time spent apprenticed in some form on learning HOW TO TEACH itself is very important, as well as actually spending time teaching classes/people.

quote:

Can a person under 25 be a Master?

Yes, but master isn't the same as trainer.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 2

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:45:37 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

Thank you for the clarification L.A.!
In the BDSM world, are you saying a Trainer needs to have specific training in how
to teach, prior to calling himself a Trainer?
I still want to know, "What is a Trainer?" Especially a Trainer of submissives or slaves?

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:49:11 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I think the only quality necessary is to self-identify as a trainer.
I do not believe in trainers though.
One person can not train me for another. It doesn't make sense. And I find it to be a silly waste of time.
I know of no universally accepted skills that a sub needs.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 4

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:57:46 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

LOL, Katy....great post!
I love the idea of submissives needing to be "qualified" also.
We need to go ahead and look into certification courses for submissives also.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/18/2007 7:59:13 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 5

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 8:22:16 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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My Master is a professor in his field...and enjoys studying the human mind...I suppose that qualified him.

I see a lot of push back regarding trainers and I can understand there are a lot of big bad wolves out there who prey on the unsuspecting red robinhoods of the world. Maybe my view is skewed because of the nature in which I was trained. While I agree one can not train a submissive for the specific desires of another dom, there are indeed areas where a submissive can be trained to simply be a better person/submissive/whatever.

While I was trained in particular areas which were uniquely pleasing to Mr. Wonderful, I was also trained to think, analyze, express myself effectively, know myself, love myself, and to shed baggage which impeded my ability to grow as a human being. We so often see the dominants in this forum say they want someone who is already sure of him/herself and knows what he/she wants...they don't want to rescue someone...they don't want to deal with baggage...they don't want to deal with the games and issues that sometimes accompany the newbie types. Yet, speaking as a former newbie type, I know I had all kinds of crap to learn and unlearn before I could become one of these "ready-made submissives" so often desired here.

From time to time I receive compliments about some of the things I express here. While I am appreciative of the kind words of others, I know who I have become is the result of a LOT of work both my Master and I did, to train me away from the drama-filled, whining, attention-grabbing, naive self-proclaimed submissive I once behaved as, to the slave I am today. Such training was not about tea parties or how to give good head, although there is time and place for either. It was about learning to think, to process ideas, to be patient, to trust....get the idea? So yes, along those lines, training can indeed be a good thing. If Mr. Wonderful poofed from this earth today with the requirement that I go serve another, I am far better equipped for enslavement than I was before he found me.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 6

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 8:33:08 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I had all kinds of crap to learn and unlearn before I could become one of these "ready-made submissives" so often desired here.

Perhaps there are girls who want to be "ready-made submissives". That does not appeal to me. I'm not one for mass-marketing myself, I would rather find my possibility with a small, select group of possible Doms. I'm more relationship-focused than wanting to be "trained" to fit the mold of what some or many may consider "submissive."

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 7

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 8:37:01 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I had all kinds of crap to learn and unlearn before I could become one of these "ready-made submissives" so often desired here.

Perhaps there are girls who want to be "ready-made submissives". That does not appeal to me. I'm not one for mass-marketing myself, I would rather find my possibility with a small, select group of possible Doms. I'm more relationship-focused than wanting to be "trained" to fit the mold of what some or many may consider "submissive."

I think you missed the point of my post.

Edited to clarify, since leaving that single line out there like that just looked rude when I looked at it again.

"Ready-made" was sarcasm.

The idea was not to cookie-cut every submissive, but to say there are indeed people out there who could benefit from learning to think. Learning to be an adult, something most everyone here agrees is a good skill, could be part of the things that training encompasses. I was trying to make the point that training doesn't simply mean honing ones skills for one particular person.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 6/18/2007 8:40:19 AM >

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 8

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 10:14:06 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Teaching is a skill like any other, I can often teach others things I do not consider myself adept at. I have never taught a bdsm class but I teach woodworking and am a talented teacher. Passing on knowledge is a wonderful thing.

In BDSM there are no standards which is both a strength and a weakness. One dominant who has had 20 slaves may have had that many because he is an idiot, another may have had 20 of the best women around all of whom still speak highly of him. Time/experience is also meaningless, some have been doing it badly for forty years another may have been doing it well for five. Hell, even "reputation" isn't a guarantee, some communities are more dysfunctional than others (mine certainly is) and being spoken of highly may or may not be a good thing.

I say all this not to condemn anything but to point out that in a subculture that worships and eroticises power and skill, there is a great deal to be gained by claiming to be a trainer, especially with impressionable and naive beginners.

I myself have sought out people to pass on knowledge. My pet wanted to learn how to flog and we were staying at a prestigious Pro-Domme house and I asked one of the more experienced ones to show her how to flog using me as the target. Here is where I draw the line, she didn't say "only if you allow me some control over you" or only if I let her play with one or both of us or any other string, she shared herself and her knowledge with us freely.

I think one can "train" another anytime your level of skill surpasses theirs, depending of course on the complexity of the subject and the inherent risks. Hell, anyone who is worth their salt as a teacher on any subject will tell you that you often learn a great deal from the students themselves. I would never consider myself an expert at rope bondage but I can show someone a lot of fun things to do. Instead take something about military firearms and a person would have to be a recognized authority on a very narrow aspect for me to learn much from them. So there are two aspects to this question, you have to know the knowledge level of the students in order to know the required knowledge level of the trainer.

As for training someone to be submissive I still think that is a load of horseshit. Are you training them for part time or full time, for a sadist or a sensualist, for someone romantic and fluffy or someone strict and severe, someone who is polly or who is monogamous, someone who loves public play or only private, what about someone who is a switch or bi, or god knows what. "Training" for me in that context will allows come with quotes because I think it is a completely bullshit concept.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 9

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 10:25:27 AM

slaverosebeauty

Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline

I know a few men who call themselves 'slave trainers,' they have taken a LOT of classes, had private 'lessons' for years. Personally, I don't get it, but thats them. I do have training, but my training was done by partners in the past, they got me through the 'basics' and other areas as well.

Every partner has a different way or training and of wanting things done, so I just use my skills that I have learned, I'm sure if MJ wanted He could find someone to 'train' me {giggles}, but thats the fun in being in a relationship, customizing.

_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 11:49:37 AM

BrutalMasterOne

Posts: 53
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

After reading a similar post on here, I want to ask the Master's a question.
What qualities and level of experience does a person need to have in order to call himself a Trainer?

Is it similar to a 4 year college degree program?
Is it based on how many submissives or slaves you have had?
Is it based on how many techniques you know and your ability to use a whip?
Is it based on an age requirement? In other words, do you need to be over 25?
Can a person under 25 be a Master?
Is it something that you can decide that you are, after reading the message boards?
Is it something that you can become from reading a couple of books on BDSM?

I look forward to some fun debate.

I truly laughed myself almost silly, but then again silly is one of my more endearing qualities.

OK seriously remember the following:
Those who can, do. Those who can't teach.

Now for the specifics but one needs to remember that I talk from the perspective of a Master not a "trainer" whatever that is.
Is it similar to a 4 year college degree program?
No it can be based on life experience
Is it based on how many submissives or slaves you have had?
Everyone had to start someplace and what is good for one is absolute shit for another so NO
Is it based on how many techniques you know and your ability to use a whip?
No not at all, a Master, as I see it, is born and can't be "trained."
Is it based on an age requirement? In other words, do you need to be over 25?
Can a person under 25 be a Master?
One need not be over or under a certain age. I knew I was a Master and was dominating women and having them do my bidding ever since a very early age, prior to leaving grammer school.
Is it something that you can decide that you are, after reading the message boards?
Is it something that you can become from reading a couple of books on BDSM?
LOL, no you don't learn it from books and/or message boards. Perhaps that is why so many women here have had failures? Or perhaps it is because there are so very many variables.
If I got way off topic please forgive me but frankly "trainers" sound a little bit like people who just don't know how to do it.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 11

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 12:03:33 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

How to do what? I mean what exactly are we talking about training? People can have physical trainers for exercise and sports. People can be trained to drive, trained to cook, trained to do their taxes.

If you're talking about kinky stuff- a slave can train others how to throw a whip as much as a master- that's a physical skill that has nothing to do with orientation.

So I'm not really sure where this thread is motivated from or what we're trying to go for here?

I know that just because you do something well doesn't mean you are a good trainer for that thing, and I know that training someone to DO something has nothing to do with a relationship orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to BrutalMasterOne)

Post #: 12

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 12:06:52 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Any student can learn from any person with greater knowledge, experience, wisdom, who is willing to share it. Quite simply, it is relative to the level of the student. It assumes SSC/RAC, so that the student is not physically or emotionally scarred. As Eastwood said to Holbrook, "A man's got to know his limitations."

(in reply to BrutalMasterOne)

Post #: 13

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 12:45:59 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

A little more information would probably be required to answer your question. Are you talking about teaching someone a skill, or are you talking about behavior modification, or both?

If you're talking about a teaching a skill you need to understand the skill being taught, have some level of proficiency in mind as a target, and be in posession of some of a method for imparting the skill which usually is a program that combines instruction and repetitive practice on the part of the student.

If you're talking about behavior modification (i.e. training someone to be a submissive or slave) you likewise have to have a behavioral target in mind, and some method for moving the trainee from their present set of behaviors toward the desired set. A good example is Marine Corps boot camp. They have a well established method for taking random kids off the street and turning them into Marines. The target set of behaviors and proficiences is well established, and so is the method for imparting them. It doesn't work for each and every young man who joins the Marines, but it is consistantly successful enough to be a repeatable model of "training". A Marine Corps DI is a fine example of a "trainer", in that he has a good understanding of both the behavioral objectives and the standard method of imparting them.

The take home lesson here is that most of the folks who would palm themselves off as "trainers" are little more than snake-oil salesmen and women. They have neither a well defined set of objectives against which they could measure the success of their "training" nor are they in posession of a reasonably well proven method of imparting those behaviors. About the best that can be said of them is that they have a more-or-less well formed idea about what you can do to please them, and they may be more-or-less adept at communicating the same.

Hope that helps.

Leonidas

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 14

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 1:03:20 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I think the only quality necessary is to self-identify as a trainer.
I do not believe in trainers though.
One person can not train me for another. It doesn't make sense. And I find it to be a silly waste of time.
I know of no universally accepted skills that a sub needs.

I think that this maybe true of you, but it is not universal. I can think of many instances when one person can be trained for another in basic knowledge. I was taught how to perform California archaology. This type of archaeology is different from every other sort of archaeology... it is site specific. So most of the things I learned from doing this (how to lay a pit, how deep each layer is, when a pit can be considered sterile... etc etc etc) are not going to translate to any other region of the world other than the California foothills. So I may decide to go dig Roman sites in England... very little of the mechanics will be the same, but much of the methodology will apply... such as how to graph a site, how to translate features and artifacts... etc etc etc... so all my training in archaeology is not invalidated because I learned it for a specific region in a specific context....

I learned things about myself from my first Ds relationship.. such as my limits, my ideas of what I wanted from Ds, my boundaries, and my kinks... things I would never have learned from a forum... some of them I had to unlearn and relearn in the relationship I now enjoy... but all that I learned is not invalidated because it did not work out. I suppose my former could call himself my "trainer", although we did not use this expression. It is just a label to convey an idea, it may not be a valid one for you, but that does not make it universally invalid.

I do not like the term much myself btw, but to each their own.

Edited to add, if I ever get my chance to teach (which I really want to do) I hope to learn as much from my students as they learn from me... so training goes both ways... just sayin

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/18/2007 1:05:55 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 15

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 1:49:33 PM

JerryInTampa

Posts: 138
Joined: 2/19/2004
Status: offline

Anyone who has put a reign in his hands is a horse trainer; for better or for worse.

To be a trainer, you need to have trained someone. That doesn't mean you are a good trainer, but it does legitemately qualify you as a trainer.

What qualifies someone to be a good trainer? Skill and luck. How long does that take? How many people do you need to train? How old do you have to be?

That's a silly question with no answer.

Someone is a master when they have something they are a master of. It is a position not a title (unless we are talking about a tradseman: in which case a manster is someone who has functioned as a jouneyman for 10 years under a master and then passed the test for master as given by a controlling guild within the profession).

You'd at least be more correct (if still as unanswerable) to ask when someone is an expert. When do you become an expert car-driver? How good do you need to be?

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 16

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:07:37 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Teaching is a skill like any other, I can often teach others things I do not consider myself adept at. I have never taught a bdsm class but I teach woodworking and am a talented teacher. Passing on knowledge is a wonderful thing.

In BDSM there are no standards which is both a strength and a weakness. One dominant who has had 20 slaves may have had that many because he is an idiot, another may have had 20 of the best women around all of whom still speak highly of him. Time/experience is also meaningless, some have been doing it badly for forty years another may have been doing it well for five. Hell, even "reputation" isn't a guarantee, some communities are more dysfunctional than others (mine certainly is) and being spoken of highly may or may not be a good thing.

Bravo! Great points, experience does NOT always make one a great teacher or even someone you would want to have a relationship with!

I say all this not to condemn anything but to point out that in a subculture that worships and eroticises power and skill, there is a great deal to be gained by claiming to be a trainer, especially with impressionable and naive beginners.

I myself have sought out people to pass on knowledge. My pet wanted to learn how to flog and we were staying at a prestigious Pro-Domme house and I asked one of the more experienced ones to show her how to flog using me as the target. Here is where I draw the line, she didn't say "only if you allow me some control over you" or only if I let her play with one or both of us or any other string, she shared herself and her knowledge with us freely.

I have always thought that besides a demo, workshop or class led by someone you respect with a good reputation, a Professional Dominant that you know and trust, can be a great teacher. *Often people able to make money at something they do, are doing it well.*

I think one can "train" another anytime your level of skill surpasses theirs, depending of course on the complexity of the subject and the inherent risks. Hell, anyone who is worth their salt as a teacher on any subject will tell you that you often learn a great deal from the students themselves. I would never consider myself an expert at rope bondage but I can show someone a lot of fun things to do. Instead take something about military firearms and a person would have to be a recognized authority on a very narrow aspect for me to learn much from them. So there are two aspects to this question, you have to know the knowledge level of the students in order to know the required knowledge level of the trainer.

As for training someone to be submissive I still think that is a load of horseshit. Are you training them for part time or full time, for a sadist or a sensualist, for someone romantic and fluffy or someone strict and severe, someone who is polly or who is monogamous, someone who loves public play or only private, what about someone who is a switch or bi, or god knows what. "Training" for me in that context will allows come with quotes because I think it is a completely bullshit concept.

I agree with just about everything you are saying for once. I don't think submissiveness can normally be taught, unless you are in an abusive situation. You can fine tune them and teach them your rules and expectations, though.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 17

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:11:27 PM

NoirUMC

Posts: 132
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline

I'm a substitute teacher at high school. Close enough, right? :P

_____________________________

-J

Working around the clock to find new and entertaining misspellings

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 18

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/18/2007 7:12:58 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

LOL, you are also a cutie patootie, so yes you can be a trainer.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to NoirUMC)

Post #: 19

RE: What qualities/experiences make you a Trainer? - 6/19/2007 3:58:07 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

Nothing formal required, merely my individual needs.... Of course there is no literature or resources to detail what specific requirements I have of my partner; only I can teach my sub what they are. I'm not one to freely embrace the title of 'trainer', but that's what it boils down to. In training her how best to please me, we both achieve individual fulfillment.

General life experience and knowledge of self is what guides me in teaching her. Lol, I'm actually kinda glad I didn't explore this when I was 25....

Focus.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 20

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