quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

criminals get denied totally.. shot on sight... no trial or anything...
if they try after getting deported thru the process.. shot...
lol so i am a bit hard on the subject

quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

criminals get denied totally.. shot on sight... no trial or anything...
if they try after getting deported thru the process.. shot...
lol so i am a bit hard on the subject

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

OK so I have half an idea on a solution for the immigratrion system.
Since it is illegal immigration we (those of us that are not bigotted) want to stop, lets make the solution one for one.
For every Guatamalan we deport we approve a visa from Guatamala, same goes for Mexico, Equador, Russia, UK, any time we arrest and deport an illegal immigrant then we automaticly approve the number of people deported to a country to come into the US.

Send those who jumpped line back to the end of the line and move in those who have been patiently waiting lawfully.

Have only thought it out exactly that far, wonder what tweeks we can come up with to make it into something viable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

criminals get denied totally.. shot on sight... no trial or anything...
if they try after getting deported thru the process.. shot...
lol so i am a bit hard on the subject

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
No one would consider it bigotry if i called the cops on someone who broke into my house (even if they argued that they cleaned the cats' litter box for me, a job i don't like to do) so what is the problem with calling the cops on someone who breaks into my country?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

criminals get denied totally.. shot on sight... no trial or anything...
if they try after getting deported thru the process.. shot...
lol so i am a bit hard on the subject

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

We need time to assimilate the people that come here legally. 
How much time do you think it will take?  I mean it has been over a hundred and fifty years since we stole a third of their country at the point of a gun.

It will take an enormous amount of time to deport the people that are here illegally.  I don't really see any other alternative than a moratorium on immigration for a number of years.
There is a defacto moratorium on immigration to this country from Mexico...read the immigration laws concerning the number of Mexicans who may apply to immigrate.

It is not bigoted to want and seek the preservation of your culture.
When you enslave,segregate and murder those who are not part of your culture then if it is not bigoted what is it?

A one for one program would still leave the problem of assimilation.  I live in one of the poorest states of the Union, and we have also had one of the largest increases in hispanic immigration.  We don't have the resources avaliable for all of these people.  They drive down the wages for unskilled workers and they take more from social services than they contribute in taxes. 
It is pretty simple...make the minimum wage fifteen dollars an hour and an illegal alien couldn't get a job because there would be a line of citizens in front of him.  Remove the incintive to hire illegals and there wont be any illegals.

I never thought I would see the day when Arkansas would have a Mexican consulate, but we have one now. 
This sure makes you sound like a bigot.
If Mexican immigrants are really interested in becoming citizens, than why the hell do they need a embassy from the country they are fleeing? 
Perhaps it is because they are not fleeing...they are just here looking for work that does not pay well enough to attract citizens.
 

quote:

The thing is that a one for one would slow down the need to assimilate, to some extent.
Illegal aliens, would not all be deported at once, it's a physical and administrative impossibility.
However by replacing the deported illegal aliens wit legal immigrants the ability and desire to assimilate would be increased.
Knowing that you may not be staying the push to assimilate is low, knowing that you will be in the USA for awhile the desire and need to assimlate is increased.

Legal status will not have the same level of depression of wages. Legal workers can demand legal wages and even more if the market and their skills demand it. Illegal workers have to kinda take what is offered much more often than their legal counterparts.

While there might be some level of one for one swaps wher there is collussion it's an awfully long view to expect to see that often from most of the people who are illegal now. If you tie the policy together then there will more likely be a backlash against jumping line because you have established a direct link betwen such practices and the levels of legal immigration permitted from each country. And since so many are working here to send the money home such a backlash may well be demotivation for the families back in their home country.

The other thing is the increased number of legal immigration would also lessen the motivation to cross ilegally.
Part of the reason so many cross illegally is the fact that the legal lines are so long. Make the legal line move faster ad more efficient and the illegal numbers should drop some.

quote:

We need time to assimilate the people that come here legally. 
How much time do you think it will take?  I mean it has been over a hundred and fifty years since we stole a third of their country at the point of a gun.

It will take an enormous amount of time to deport the people that are here illegally.  I don't really see any other alternative than a moratorium on immigration for a number of years.
There is a defacto moratorium on immigration to this country from Mexico...read the immigration laws concerning the number of Mexicans who may apply to immigrate.

It is not bigoted to want and seek the preservation of your culture.
When you enslave,segregate and murder those who are not part of your culture then if it is not bigoted what is it?quote]

It takes time for every new arrival to assimilate.  That is why we place a limit on how many people are allowed to come here every year.  You can't maintain a stable economy and a security when you open up the borders to the entire world.  Mexicans are not the only ones that would like to come here.  It is just as racist to give them preference over the thousands of other nationalities that would like to live here. 

We did fight a war with government of Mexico and we seized land in the process.  A large portion of the people who fought on the United States's side were Mestizos who despised the mostly Spaniard descended aristocracy that controlled Mexico.  Mexico still has their own issues with racism, and it is a large reason so many of them are coming here.  Mexico is not a poor country.  There is a lot of wealth there, but that wealth is unevenly distributed.  A very small portion of the population which are mainly Spanish descendants run their own corrupt little fiefdoms and leave out the Native and Mestizo population from the profits. 

I don't remember there ever being any Mexican slaves in the United States, and there was never a official policy of segregation from them.  Like a lot of ethnic groups, people tend to want to live among their own people.  That very well may be racist, but it is not exclusive to people of northwest European extraction.  Mexico itself is a extremely segregated society.  The indigenous population have been disenfranchised for years, and any upward social movement from the indigenous people of Mexico has been brutally oppressed for the entire history of Mexico.  However, those are social problems for the Mexican people to fix.  The United States is not responsible for taking in all the people that Mexico disgards.

quote:

A one for one program would still leave the problem of assimilation.  I live in one of the poorest states of the Union, and we have also had one of the largest increases in hispanic immigration.  We don't have the resources avaliable for all of these people.  They drive down the wages for unskilled workers and they take more from social services than they contribute in taxes. 
It is pretty simple...make the minimum wage fifteen dollars an hour and an illegal alien couldn't get a job because there would be a line of citizens in front of him.  Remove the incintive to hire illegals and there wont be any illegals.

I never thought I would see the day when Arkansas would have a Mexican consulate, but we have one now. 
This sure makes you sound like a bigot.
If Mexican immigrants are really interested in becoming citizens, than why the hell do they need a embassy from the country they are fleeing? 
Perhaps it is because they are not fleeing...they are just here looking for work that does not pay well enough to attract citizens.

Raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour is hardly a simple process.  Most of the businesses that pay the minimum wage could not afford to stay in business.  Wages are driven up naturally when there is a competitive market place.  You can't have a competitive market place when you flood labor pool with cheap labor.  You remove the incentive to hire illegals by enforcing the laws that we have.  It has always been illegal to hire illegal aliens.  There are fines and penalties in place to punish employers that do this.  The law needs to be enforced.  The laws against identity theft and document forgery need to be strictly enforced to stop illegals from getting around identity requirements when applying for jobs. 

How exactly does my statement make me sound like a bigot?  Arkansas is not a border state.  There are less than 3 million people that reside here.  No other country besides Mexico has a foreign consulate here.  The reason for that is that other people that come here want to stay.  They are not working here for a few years and sending all their money back to their country of origin.  They are fleeing their home country.  As I said before, there is no reason for them to not be able to earn a good wage in their home country.  Mexico is not in a economic depression.  It is a second world economy with a large amount of natural resources.  The problem they have is rooted in corruption and racism.  That racism is internal and has nothing to do with the United States.     

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

We need time to assimilate the people that come here legally. 
How much time do you think it will take?  I mean it has been over a hundred and fifty years since we stole a third of their country at the point of a gun.

It will take an enormous amount of time to deport the people that are here illegally.  I don't really see any other alternative than a moratorium on immigration for a number of years.
There is a defacto moratorium on immigration to this country from Mexico...read the immigration laws concerning the number of Mexicans who may apply to immigrate.

It is not bigoted to want and seek the preservation of your culture.
When you enslave,segregate and murder those who are not part of your culture then if it is not bigoted what is it?quote]

It takes time for every new arrival to assimilate.  That is why we place a limit on how many people are allowed to come here every year. 
You are evading the question.  Just as we codified the exclusion of Asians we have codified the exclusion on Mexicans.

You can't maintain a stable economy and a security when you open up the borders to the entire world.
We are not talking about the whole world, we are talking about Mexico.


Mexicans are not the only ones that would like to come here.  It is just as racist to give them preference over the thousands of other nationalities that would like to live here. 
There are not thousands of nationalities.  I am not speaking of giving them preference.  I am pointing out that the quotas for legal immigration for Mexicans is significantly lower ,by several orders of magnitude, than the quotas for Canadians or western Europeans.

We did fight a war with government of Mexico and we seized land in the process.  A large portion of the people who fought on the United States's side were Mestizos who despised the mostly Spaniard descended aristocracy that controlled Mexico.
This simply is not true

Mexico still has their own issues with racism, and it is a large reason so many of them are coming here. 
I agree that Mexico has a lot of bigotry which ensures that the poor stay poor.  The poverty of the non ruling class is what drives them across the border.

Mexico is not a poor country.  There is a lot of wealth there, but that wealth is unevenly distributed.  A very small portion of the population which are mainly Spanish descendants run their own corrupt little fiefdoms and leave out the Native and Mestizo population from the profits. 
Absolutely 

I don't remember there ever being any Mexican slaves in the United States, and there was never a official policy of segregation from them
The reference was to bigotry and the enslavement of blacks and their subsequent segregation.  I have been to Arkansas when you folks had separate bathrooms and separate drinking fountains it was not all that long ago and the last time I was there the bigotry was still present if not the signs designating  black and white restrooms.

Like a lot of ethnic groups, people tend to want to live among their own people.  That very well may be racist, but it is not exclusive to people of northwest European extraction. 
Please excuse me while I yawn at this tired old piece of rhetoric.

Mexico itself is a extremely segregated society.  The indigenous population have been disenfranchised for years, and any upward social movement from the indigenous people of Mexico has been brutally oppressed for the entire history of Mexico.  However, those are social problems for the Mexican people to fix.
This would be relevant to this discussion in what way?

The United States is not responsible for taking in all the people that Mexico disgards.
Please point out where I have suggested that it was.

quote:

A one for one program would still leave the problem of assimilation.  I live in one of the poorest states of the Union, and we have also had one of the largest increases in hispanic immigration. 
If there is a point to this statement it has eluded me.


We don't have the resources avaliable for all of these people. 
If you pay taxes you are entitled to the services for which you pay taxes.  If you have a pulse and make less than a million dollars a year you pay taxes.

They drive down the wages for unskilled workers and they take more from social services than they contribute in taxes. 
It is pretty simple...make the minimum wage fifteen dollars an hour and an illegal alien couldn't get a job because there would be a line of citizens in front of him.  Remove the incentive to hire illegals and there wont be any illegals.

I never thought I would see the day when Arkansas would have a Mexican consulate, but we have one now. 
This sure makes you sound like a bigot.
If Mexican immigrants are really interested in becoming citizens, than why the hell do they need a embassy from the country they are fleeing? 
Perhaps it is because they are not fleeing...they are just here looking for work that does not pay well enough to attract citizens.

Raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour is hardly a simple process.  Most of the businesses that pay the minimum wage could not afford to stay in business. 
That is what you folks said about slavery also.  If you cannot run a business with out slave labor you don't really have a business. 

Wages are driven up naturally when there is a competitive market place.  You can't have a competitive market place when you flood labor pool with cheap labor.  You remove the incentive to hire illegals by enforcing the laws that we have.  It has always been illegal to hire illegal aliens.  There are fines and penalties in place to punish employers that do this.  The law needs to be enforced.  The laws against identity theft and document forgery need to be strictly enforced to stop illegals from getting around identity requirements when applying for jobs. 
Yet you continue to elect the same assholes who refuse to enforce the law.  When was the last time in your state that an employer of illegal aliens had the "asset forfeiture" law applied to him or her?  If we confiscated their profits (home,car,assets and business) then how many would continue to hire illegal aliens.  We do it to dope dealers so why not Tyson foods.  How about the politicians who employ illegal aliens to mow their lawns and baby sit their kids.


How exactly does my statement make me sound like a bigot?  Arkansas is not a border state.  There are less than 3 million people that reside here.  No other country besides Mexico has a foreign consulate here. 
I do not know why there is a Mexican consulate there....perhaps because there are mexicans....perhaps because employers in your state need an official source for their slave labor?  Perhaps you should go in and ask them.

The reason for that is that other people that come here want to stay.  They are not working here for a few years and sending all their money back to their country of origin. 
Are you suggesting that a person is not entitled to do with their income what they choose?  Are you suggesting that the constitutional guarantee of free access is not valid and should be repealed?

They are fleeing their home country.
This seems to be a contradiction of your statement above.  Either they are fleeing their home country to establish a new home or they are here just to earn some money to send home to their families.  Make up your mind.

As I said before, there is no reason for them to not be able to earn a good wage in their home country.  Mexico is not in a economic depression.  It is a second world economy with a large amount of natural resources.  The problem they have is rooted in corruption and racism.  That racism is internal and has nothing to do with the United States.  
How is this relevant to our discussion.  I thought we were talking about the U.S. and our problems with illegal immigration and greedy employers seeking to return to an anti-Belem utopia where the poor knew their place.