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Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffic, e... - 6/20/2007 7:49:59 AM   
farglebargle


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http://www.itweek.co.uk/articles/print/2191993

Maybe THIS is why all the tear-jerking stories have been promoted recently?

quote:


The room, described as secret and secure, houses surveillance equipment used to spy on AT&T customers. Investigations could include web use, email and voice communications.

"This is critical evidence supporting our claim that AT&T is cooperating with the NSA in the illegal dragnet surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans," said EFF legal director Cindy Cohn.


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 8:33:01 AM   
stef


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Settle down, Chicken Little.  The sky is just fine.  They're not watching all traffic, they don't have the resources or means to. 

~stef

_____________________________

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 8:38:09 AM   
cjenny


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Thankies stef, you just gave me my very first experience of reading these boards and snort laughing the coffee ONTO my laptop. It was a lil bit painful.....

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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 9:42:45 AM   
soultoshare


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<-------  hands cjenny the paper towels......ALWAYS have them handy when perusing the boards....the snorts sneak up on you!

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It's about learning to dance in the rain.



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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 10:10:56 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

http://www.itweek.co.uk/articles/print/2191993

Maybe THIS is why all the tear-jerking stories have been promoted recently?

quote:


The room, described as secret and secure, houses surveillance equipment used to spy on AT&T customers. Investigations could include web use, email and voice communications.

"This is critical evidence supporting our claim that AT&T is cooperating with the NSA in the illegal dragnet surveillance of millions of ordinary Americans," said EFF legal director Cindy Cohn.



Hey, we could mess with them.
"O.K., who's bringing what to the pot-luck Al Qeada meeting tommorrow night?"
Muhammed; "I'll bring some Lasagna."
Achmed; "I'll bring the salad."
Ted Kennedy; " I'll ah, ah, ah, bring the ah, ah, whiskey."



_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 11:07:27 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Um, in fact no one knows what they're watching.  That's what this court case is all about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Settle down, Chicken Little.  The sky is just fine.  They're not watching all traffic, they don't have the resources or means to.

(in reply to stef)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 11:11:38 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
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From: Cali
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Hey, we could mess with them.
"O.K., who's bringing what to the pot-luck Al Qeada meeting tommorrow night?"
Muhammed; "I'll bring some Lasagna."
Achmed; "I'll bring the salad."
Ted Kennedy; " I'll ah, ah, ah, bring the ah, ah, whiskey."


Don't we ALREADY mess with them by being on this site and by talking about 'non pc' stuff like tieing each other up, spanking, fisting, breath play, slavery etc; read some of the blogs of people in lifestyle and those poor fools would go out of their minds. Heck some of the smartest minds are in M/s and BDSM. Lets REALLY screw with them.

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"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 11:13:35 AM   
mnottertail


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I wonder what they are saying about me---could be---

clever motherfucker----
handsome devil----

perhaps I have made someones day....nice thought.

 

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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 11:16:51 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder what they are saying about me---could be---

clever motherfucker----
handsome devil----

perhaps I have made someones day....nice thought.




...more likely all your posts are, even now, being subjected to rigorous mathematical analysis in order to find the hidden meaning........


(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 11:26:32 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Settle down, Chicken Little. The sky is just fine. They're not watching all traffic, they don't have the resources or means to.

~stef


So, you didn't read either the article, or the court filings in EFF v. AT&T?

Because they have THE ADVERTISING LITERATURE AND SPEC SHEET OF THE ROUTER TAPS WHICH DO IT.

You can buy it off the shelf.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to stef)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:12:25 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

Settle down, Chicken Little. The sky is just fine. They're not watching all traffic, they don't have the resources or means to.

~stef


So, you didn't read either the article, or the court filings in EFF v. AT&T?

Because they have THE ADVERTISING LITERATURE AND SPEC SHEET OF THE ROUTER TAPS WHICH DO IT.

You can buy it off the shelf.




To respond to what stef wrote, the key word which stef left off the end of your sentence is "yet."

As far as what farglebargle is pointing out, yes, it is in the nature of digital traffic that it probably is all recorded.  If I am a router, and I get a packet, I add my router header information to the router and send it upstream/downstream to the next router in my look-up tables.  Additionally, I keep CRC information about the packet and record it and the packet until it expires based on a value set up by the router / server administrator.  This is because I might get a message upstream which tells me to resend the information.

The short answer is "yes," every bit of traffic is recorded.

The real answer is that the data is fed through computers to find words like Al Qaeda, assassination, global warming, Teletubbies, Liberal, Democrat, global warming, etc., which are then flagged and the information is then sent to data mining computers who try to figure out the context those words are found in.  These data mining computers then determine how serious the information is and flag it to monitor the IP and username, flag the message to send to an actual human to look at, flag it to have the NSA people show up and Gitmoize you the user, etc.

The reason I make the point about "yet" is that our computing power is not yet sufficient to fully examine the vast amount of digital traffic.

I do not encrypt my computer.  There is a trade off between performance of a computer and level of security.  The way I look at it is that I do not put anything relevant to anything on any computer (even if Microsquish says my credit card info is safe in their database) that is connected by wire to the outside world.  On the other hand, I do encrypt my phone conversations with other verizon users.

But then I come from a high security background, network security, and have some familiarity with the methods used.

While the NSA / CIA / FBI / etc., talk endlessly about the threat of foreign powers, it is really corporations who are pushing the envelope on computer security.  They are the ones who convinced Congress to allow 128 bit encryption back in the NT days.  At the time it was determined that it would take 10,000 years to decrypt it based on that technology.  Of course, computer speed increases exponentially so we have 256 and higher.  It is only a matter of time.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:26:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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And by simply recording the traffic, you can save it for a few years, until the horsepower is affordable.

Here's Narus' ad.

http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_exhb_u.pdf

Narus' PRESENTATION. Pay attention to "Semantic Analysis"

http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_exhb_l-p.pdf

SG3

http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/SER_marcus_decl.pdf


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/20/2007 12:35:21 PM >


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:31:16 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

So, you didn't read either the article, or the court filings in EFF v. AT&T?

Please.  I've been aware of Hepting v. AT&T long before you ever posted about it.

quote:

Because they have THE ADVERTISING LITERATURE AND SPEC SHEET OF THE ROUTER TAPS WHICH DO IT.

Big deal.  Even with Narus in the mix, they lack the means to monitor all internet traffic no matter what THE ADVERTISING LITERATURE AND SPEC SHEET OF THE ROUTER TAPS claim. 

quote:

You can buy it off the shelf.

It's a shame common sense isn't so readily available.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:37:17 PM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Oh, so it's not a wiretap until someone listens to the tape?


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to stef)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:37:46 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

The reason I make the point about "yet" is that our computing power is not yet sufficient to fully examine the vast amount of digital traffic.

Unless there is some quantum leap in technology, it may never be sufficient.  The amount of traffic is increasing at a far greater rate than processing power and that trend doesn't show any signs of changing soon.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:45:28 PM   
stef


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Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Oh, so it's not a wiretap until someone listens to the tape?

Did I say that??

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 12:56:55 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Oh, so it's not a wiretap until someone listens to the tape?

Did I say that??

~stef


It *seems* to be your point.

If they are copying all the network traffic, what's the difference if the look now or later?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to stef)
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RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 1:12:25 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It *seems* to be your point.

It's not.  Re-read my original reply for my point.  I don't believe it can be stated any clearer.

quote:

If they are copying all the network traffic, what's the difference if the look now or later?

It's unlikely that they're even copying all of their local network traffic, there's no way they are copying all the internet traffic as you claimed in the OP.

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 1:17:12 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Hey, we could mess with them.
"O.K., who's bringing what to the pot-luck Al Qeada meeting tommorrow night?"
Muhammed; "I'll bring some Lasagna."
Achmed; "I'll bring the salad."
Ted Kennedy; " I'll ah, ah, ah, bring the ah, ah, whiskey."


Don't we ALREADY mess with them by being on this site and by talking about 'non pc' stuff like tieing each other up, spanking, fisting, breath play, slavery etc; read some of the blogs of people in lifestyle and those poor fools would go out of their minds. Heck some of the smartest minds are in M/s and BDSM. Lets REALLY screw with them.


SlaveRose, aren't "they" supposed to be working for us?
I'm starting to have my doubts about Fargle though.
Could he be a "plant?"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slaverosebeauty)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Yes, they really are monitoring all internet traffi... - 6/20/2007 1:27:37 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It *seems* to be your point.

It's not. Re-read my original reply for my point. I don't believe it can be stated any clearer.

quote:

If they are copying all the network traffic, what's the difference if the look now or later?

It's unlikely that they're even copying all of their local network traffic, there's no way they are copying all the internet traffic as you claimed in the OP.

~stef


That's why taps are on the core routers?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 20
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