RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/21/2007 2:54:57 AM)

We had a slight falling out with the King in the 1640s here, which culminated in the King being found guilty of treason and executed. It thus entered Common Law that no one was above the law.

At that time, the territories which later became the USA were under English rule - in fact quite a few of the early settlers returned to England to take part in the civil war here. One might therefore argue that the territories also obtained the same Common Law precedent regarding no one being above the law, and perhaps that this was inherited by the USA.

Have fun, and remember to mop the blood up on your handkerchiefs - its meant to be good luck.

E




farglebargle -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/21/2007 5:05:16 PM)

Cheney sure thinks he is.

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371




Sinergy -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/21/2007 5:10:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Actually Sinergy, Clinton issued 140 of them.  But it was a nice (though utterly baseless) rant, you layed down.


Correct.  And the Republican rant at the time was that he issued far too many of them and it undercut the power of
Congress to enact laws.

http://www.cdi.org/laws/presidential-signing-statements-022807.cfm

http://eprints.law.duke.edu/archive/00001594/01/23_Const._Comment._(2006).pdf

AnencephalyBoy has issued more than 800.

On this issue, like the "A President cannot lie to the People" issue, the Republicans stand mute. 

Such profound hypocrisy is simply breath-taking in scope and breadth.

Sinergy




philosophy -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/21/2007 6:09:59 PM)

.....fascinating speculation. i lack the knowledge of US constitutional affairs to comment meaningfully, but it reads very plausibly to me.




dragone -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/23/2007 8:55:54 PM)

That was in 1640......what has been done lately?

In theory. no one ...should be above the law. In pratice, it is who has the bigger gun that makes him/her above and beyond the law.

And then, when confronted with the law...it is he who can buy the biggest and best lawyer and judges in the country, that will decide if one is..above the law, or within reach of the law.

Here, not too long ago; there was a tragic case which invovled the murder of a young girl. Upon questioning by the police, the parents fell suspect, subsequently refused all cooperation, didn't replie to investigative querries, in fact, went on vacation to Europe. They were never charged, even for obstruction of justice, and the law could not even get close to touch them in any way. All was forgotten, and Mr. Ramsey, (the father) later ran for senator of Michigan.

Idealism in fairness and equality sounds great; but the truth is, and always will be; "The people's voice falls silent before arms."...and may I add...Money, and position.

Speaking of equality;.....ask any whore, if all men are created equal.

I leave you with the words of our late and departed 'great communicator': " I'm the president, and what are you going to do about it." Reagan on the air traffic controllers debalicle...er, debate

And as the snot nose pickin' Nixon once reminded us all. " If the president does it, then it is NOT illegal."




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/23/2007 11:18:12 PM)

Here ya go farglebargle http://usgovinfo.about.com/blconar2.htm . Read it for yourself, and there are nice easy links to follow to show all the things that tie into it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please cite the CONSTITUTIONAL SECTION AND ARTICLE which confers immunity from indictment by grand jury upon a sitting president.






OrionTheWolf -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/23/2007 11:22:44 PM)

In fact the office of Vice-president is not part of the Executive branch, so the law does not apply. There are several books and articles that cover the powers of the Vice-president, and the main one being the constitution. The simple test is this, the President is in charge of the Executive branch but in fact cannot make the Vice-President do a thing. It is an oversight in that law, and needs to be amended to include the Vice-President office.

Just do a search on vice presidential powers. Even the courts confirm in various rulings that the office of Vice-President is not part of the Executive Branch.

Damn all of the politicians for weasling out of doing what they should do anyway, republican and democrat alike.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Cheney sure thinks he is.

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371




Vendaval -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 2:12:33 AM)

Shrub is not a peson above the law, he just plays one on TV. [;)]




farglebargle -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 6:34:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Here ya go farglebargle http://usgovinfo.about.com/blconar2.htm . Read it for yourself, and there are nice easy links to follow to show all the things that tie into it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please cite the CONSTITUTIONAL SECTION AND ARTICLE which confers immunity from indictment by grand jury upon a sitting president.





I don't see anything about being exempt from indictment from Grand Jury.

Please provide the EXACT TEXT, ( What clause ) providing the exemption you allege.

I see neither "EXEMPT" "IMMUNE" or "GRAND JURY".





farglebargle -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 6:44:15 AM)

Constitution say Vice President is part of the Executive.

AND I QUOTE DIRECTLY FROM THE CONSTITUTION:


"US Constitution

Article II: The Executive Branch

Section 1

Clause 1:

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows: "

Section 4 - Disqualification

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

----

And if he's going to claim he's NOT part of the Executive, then the Energy Task Force Minutes aren't protected, are they?

AND if he WANTS to be "President of The Senate" instead, then he's subject to the oversight of The Office of Senate Security AND NEEDS TO OBEY THE "Senate Security Manual", which is binding upon all employees of the Senate.

Guy wants it both ways. It's a sign of emotional immaturity.







farglebargle -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 5:44:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Here ya go farglebargle http://usgovinfo.about.com/blconar2.htm . Read it for yourself, and there are nice easy links to follow to show all the things that tie into it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please cite the CONSTITUTIONAL SECTION AND ARTICLE which confers immunity from indictment by grand jury upon a sitting president.





I don't see anything about being exempt from indictment from Grand Jury.

Please provide the EXACT TEXT, ( What clause ) providing the exemption you allege.

I see neither "EXEMPT" "IMMUNE" or "GRAND JURY".




Still Waiting....





Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 8:13:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Legally, the president is in fact 'above' the law, during his term.  In fact, not only is the president immune, but he has the power to pardon.  Here's a list of Bush's pardons.

The only oversight is the capacity of the Senate to impeach him.

Stephan



amazing, for a country thought to have no conspiracy, whats the guess?  Maybe 50% of that long list is all conspiracies that were pardoned?  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL




Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 8:15:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Please cite the CONSTITUTIONAL SECTION AND ARTICLE which confers immunity from indictment by grand jury upon a sitting president.




none!  another violation of th epeoples contract




Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 8:17:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Hi; so, by your statements, the Clinton Bj was worse, more of a threat to the world.... than the Iraq war, driving this country into bankrupcy, WMDs, homeland security, a country under survellance, citizens rights lost, etc; and the like. I know, I know, the terrorists must be stopped; Don't mind that Bush's brother counted the Votes......Brother????? Pleeease. So, you really believe these elections are honest, straight?

Bush is GOD, (the father) the son- is the pawn of the Father. You think, if a Dem gets the throne, whoever it may be, even Hillary, now that would be a hoopla, good for two terms of mind blowing , unrelenting, repubican nonsense;.... the Bush regin is over, guess again, this does not change anything from the on going, long term plan.

Okay then......never mind.


dont kid yourself daddy is a puppet too!  this is a puppet govenment.
cfr




Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 8:33:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Hi Farglebargle; I really like reading your posts. Now,  this impunity to the law, the President seems to have; Clinton did not, as you remember that insider trading thingie of 100 grand or so, which the republicans spent over 48 million of our bucks to prove, all in vain however.

Bush, is above all laws, as the consequences of his uni-lateral actions have shown. The consitution has no effect on him, he stands without challenge on any issue, no matter how criminal it may be. No one challenges him on any account, not even the media, no one who would carry any weight challenges him. He stands with impunity of the laws which govern us all. The record is clear.......so, constitution or no......he is above the law.

The question should be......why is this.


i think what is important to extreme about what you say here may go over looked.

So let me point out:  Does anyone realize what it takes?    What must be in place or taking place that "no one" person or agency will stand up for us and go up against him?

The really funny funny part is, people say "oh look at the size of a conspiracy it would take to pull off 911!!!"

I say look at the size of the conspiracy it takes to pull off exactly what you said!

Yet here it is right in front of our eyes!






OrionTheWolf -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 9:09:23 PM)

Farglebargle you are lazy or just wish to deny. I give you the actual section that has hyper links to what you want, and you cannot even look it up yourself. You are a waste of time.

Orion




dragone -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/24/2007 11:56:11 PM)

Hello Realone; Oh, I don't think it ends with daddy bush; he is a puppet, but whose puppet? Everything is so clouded, the media is owned by ...what 5 mega conglomerates; Rupert Murdoc's bunch is one, Disney is another; I don't recall the others; but everything that is put out to the public as a free press, reponsible media, is a lie, manipulations; total contrived media;  and of what I call...the no news, news.

This puppet, thingie; we will never know, who it is that is the master puppetteer. The people in CA think Arnold is governator; but no, the Warren Buffet and others are the ones who run CA; Arnold is their front man. The good looking charming face, the hero personnae.

I admit; all this government is just too complex for my brain, well, no, but why bother with all the details, when no matter what I do, no matter how much time and effort I put into energies unravelling the truth...it dosen't matter; I am in absolutely no position to do anything about it at all, nor have any effect whatsoever . Oh sure, you can vote...Bush's election, if you want to call it that...proved just what your vote mattered. It was sheer ursupation of the throne; nothing more; the events, the rulings all point to a dictatorial regine. Yet, people defend him; no one anywhere, in positions of power and influence challenges him.

When this nazi Ratzinger took the throne of the pope, all hope, belief in the possibility of a god, vanished, evaporated into thin air; it was the same as when I believed this country was still great, even with it's problems, that it was being worked out...then Daddy Bush came to the light, and my beliefs evaporated.

It was all lies, manipulations, me, along with the rest of the people of this country were sold like discount meat. And, it was a long time happening before Daddy Bush.

It was all a sham; what we were taught in school were lies; deliberte lies to program our acceptance of being 'happy slaves' ready to die for the rich, our masters, under the guise of liberty, justice, country, freedom. It was all lies, and our children are caught in this quadmires of deciet.

And yet, people cling to their partisan political beliefs as if it meant something, and shout, proudly, they are Democrate or Republican, as it it meant something, when the reality is, it means nothing, they are nothing but discount meat to be devoured by the rich.

ah, who cares; we all will die in a bed of our own shit.




Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/25/2007 12:07:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Hello Realone; Oh, I don't think it ends with daddy bush; he is a puppet, but whose puppet? Everything is so clouded, the media is owned by ...what 5 mega conglomerates; Rupert Murdoc's bunch is one, Disney is another; I don't recall the others; but everything that is put out to the public as a free press, reponsible media, is a lie, manipulations; total contrived media;  and of what I call...the no news, news.

This puppet, thingie; we will never know, who it is that is the master puppetteer. The people in CA think Arnold is governator; but no, the Warren Buffet and others are the ones who run CA; Arnold is their front man. The good looking charming face, the hero personnae.

I admit; all this government is just too complex for my brain, well, no, but why bother with all the details, when no matter what I do, no matter how much time and effort I put into energies unravelling the truth...it dosen't matter; I am in absolutely no position to do anything about it at all, nor have any effect whatsoever . Oh sure, you can vote...Bush's election, if you want to call it that...proved just what your vote mattered. It was sheer ursupation of the throne; nothing more; the events, the rulings all point to a dictatorial regine. Yet, people defend him; no one anywhere, in positions of power and influence challenges him.

When this nazi Ratzinger took the throne of the pope, all hope, belief in the possibility of a god, vanished, evaporated into thin air; it was the same as when I believed this country was still great, even with it's problems, that it was being worked out...then Daddy Bush came to the light, and my beliefs evaporated.

It was all lies, manipulations, me, along with the rest of the people of this country were sold like discount meat. And, it was a long time happening before Daddy Bush.

It was all a sham; what we were taught in school were lies; deliberte lies to program our acceptance of being 'happy slaves' ready to die for the rich, our masters, under the guise of liberty, justice, country, freedom. It was all lies, and our children are caught in this quadmires of deciet.

And yet, people cling to their partisan political beliefs as if it meant something, and shout, proudly, they are Democrate or Republican, as it it meant something, when the reality is, it means nothing, they are nothing but discount meat to be devoured by the rich.

ah, who cares; we all will die in a bed of our own shit.



gawd damn man!  That was very like bullseye on target!  Once it goes through a few generations most gets lost becuase people cant imagine life any other way than it is.  Ignorance is not necesarily bliss.

puppeteers?  Well if you have a few odd months trace the major position holders of the federal reserve backwards including the first national bank in jeffersons days etc.  then trace it to organizations what the stand for etc etc.  you will find the puppeteers.




Real0ne -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/25/2007 12:17:00 AM)

Ya just pondering a minute.....  they no sooner got done signing all those wonderful words and immediately began violating the very contract they wrote.   Its inconvenient after all.

Oh yeh i can go on and on about the travesties, wilson, fdr, bush did more damage to this country than any other 10 combined. 

Researching the puppeteers can get pretty depressing btw.   They are so well entrenched and few people can imagine that its true, the latter being the depressing part.




dragone -> RE: Is President Bush above the Law? (6/25/2007 1:14:36 AM)

Hello again; Oh yes, I've read alittle; and there I began thinking...so what the hell am I believing in; working for. I was so angry by the words I read, I literarily threw the book across the room, and then kicked it while I walked though the house. I can't stand to listen to this bush's voice. When Reagan made his speeches of support to the 'freedom fighters'; I thought of the words, the term...'Freedom Fighters'.....and knew, he was actually saying, fighters against freedom....and everything came clear, and subsequent events proved it so.

Daddy Bush's speeches, when he talked about the american people, he did all he could do to keep from laughing. I saw a clip when Nixon was making his farewell, speech...this is absolutely true...he was picking his nose, oblivious to everything around him, playing with his snot, then from off stage he was called ...one minute mr president...he laughed made a joke, and then, "you're On" came the que, and immediately he was sollem like a stone; the rest is history. I actually saw the clip, beginning to end, after he looked, said are we off...then went back to laughing and making snide remarks.

Pope John dies, the funeral, the 2 Bushes and Clinton attend; pay photo op respects, a few days later in record time, the nazi Ratzinger is pope. Now, when was the last time a Pope died where american presidents showed up? Where was Carter? I feel, in my suspious mind, that Bush was there to close a deal, to have this nazi appointed pope. Oh absurd you say. Not when you know, the Catholic church was Pro-Nazi and supported Hitler...openly. That Preston Bush did business directly with Hitler, and the nazis; Daddy Bush placed a wreath at the Nazi unknown soldier's monument. These are but only a few items in a host of other items. To see the Homeland security system is nothing more than the Gestapo, police; during the 911 debates, Bush in a speech, says if you are not for me and america, then you are against us...the very same thing Hitler said in his speeches.

People, here, see the archival footage of a ranting Hitler, and are told his rants were of hate and war, of a madman. Not true, his rants, and gesturing were empassioned speeches of the greatness of Germany, and it's people, to return Germany to the greatness it once enjoyed, to revenge the treaty of Versailles, that no country or people shall ever put Germany down again. They were empassioned speeches of patriotism, of freedom; of protecting the German Home and her children and of the jewish bankers who would deprive our German children of their heritage, who rape the German economy and hard working Germans of their homes and businesses...if it's a war they want, then we'll give them a war.

The very same patriot BS Hitler spoke, was resurrected in the Saddam debalicle, and Iraq war. The same media bashing blitz of the Clinton era. In all actually Clinton was an anomily, and should never have been elected. The cruel media barage against the Clintons, were the same type of media blitz the Germans employed in their propaganda. There were 'Rush Rooms' where Limbaugh's progaram was heard in cafe's, on speakers, and people came to eat lunch and hear Limbaugh bash Clinton.

The survellance this country has been subjected to, under the guise of protecting our freedom, is unparrelled since nazi Germany. Even the helmets of our troops resemble the nazi helmet, HomeLand security uniforms are black, and they control each and every passenger coming and leaving the US at every airport. One Guard can stop and detain you at his discretion and will, at any time. THe police are in actuality a para-military unit.

And I read these post, here in this CM, see these...people arguing over, nit-picking articles, and every manner of nonsense imaginable, counting the number of dead, in Iraq like they are counting beans. They debate this Master slave senarios, when their very lives are sold to the Chinese, Arabs, or whoever. An eight hundred billion dollar tower is being built in Dubahi, all European and middle east commerce to the rest of the world will be funneled through the arabs...and no one seems to care, and talk about how to insert a dildo into your slave.  Am I missing something; or has the world gone mad.




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