RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia

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slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:27:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie The question is, who decides what is an acceptable family value and what is not? And how is such a decision determined? And how is it executed? ownedgirlie, It seems as though you are not going to get a serious answer to this question. I wonder - for all those who think the mother in the clip needs to be stopped from how she is raising her daughter - how would you feel if that woman were able to come into YOUR home and dictate to you how to raise yours? Taking over a parents' right to raise their child as they please can go both ways, ya know? And either way is just as wrong.......slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:34:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Well, yes, and no: what irks me with other posters responses here (and they're all chicks, how weird is that???) I'll bet Leonidas would beg to differ[;)]. He doesn't look like any chick I've ever seen. quote: is that they're completely mixing up the D/s 'lifestyle' and what these old-fashioned, reactionary, neo-cons marriage are all about. It's all about politics. The personal is political and if they miss that point, well, there really is not much hope for them. Again, the idea that what they're doing is not D/s is simply an opinion, not fact. And, as I've mentioned several times here, who cares what it's CALLED? It is how they live. It is their right. quote: They may wallow in their pool of ignorance and stupidity. I don't care about them, but I do care about their offsprings If you really "cared" about their "offsprings" you'd understand that what these parents are doing is not abusive. To call them "ignorant" and "stupid" merely because you disagree is really a pretty lazy way to make a point. They aren't "ignorant" of how they desire to live. As a matter of fact, they sought out Laura (not "lowrat") Boyle's book, read it, and decided to follow that model to see if it works. How is that (researching, reading, and implementing a plan) ignorant? I'd say it's quite the opposite..........slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo How you live, not a problem for me and I would be the first feminist to defend your choice. Unless it's my choice to raise my children the way I want and not the way the "community" thinks best[;)], huh?..........slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 i just watched the video, tho i had heard of the "Surrendered Wife" book and read some things about it years ago, after seeing this newsclip however i think i'll have to go out and get this book myself I ordered a copy yesterday from amazon.com myself.[:)] I can't wait to get it though Master says He doubts there's much I need to learn from it and maybe I could add a couple chapters....lol..... quote: i think that this "movement" if you will can be a wonderful thing for many vanilla couples who have tried the modern way of feminism and equality and realized that it simply does not work. growing up in my own household and observing the relationships around me, i saw firsthand much tension and friction in relationships that mostly came down to each partner struggling for dominance and control, because there was no clear Head of household, no clear leader, everything was just chaos. or worse, i would see couples where the male had happily checked out emotionally and mentally from the relationship, while the female would be going merrily along running her one-person show. our current society which encourages independent, controlling, ball-busting women and pleading, ultra sensitive effeminate men results in damaged relationships with selfish, demanding women and emotionally depleted, emasculated men. it all saddens me a great deal. Agreed. quote: i think that the Surrendered Wife movement is simply another brand of D/s, as D/s for many of us is nothing new under the sun, and a traditional way of life that has been in existence in human relationships since prehistoric times. my Master and i were not led to D/s thru bdsm or kink, but rather thru old-fashioned values that we both held regarding the natural order. Very much agreed. quote: i realize that many do not agree with such beliefs, and that is fine, but i wonder why all the animosity and anger towards those of us who believe and live this way, especially on a place like collarme.com?? i would think that we of all people would understand the beauty and simplicity in the Surrendered Wife model. instead many are criticizing and bashing it even more than those in the outside vanilla world would. I couldn't agree more here. Master said the same thing. Of all places, He thought this site would be a place where these couples' beliefs would at least be respected, if not accepted. But, you're right, the level of animosity and anger from some here is way worse than from many vanilla folks, my 62 year old mother included! I showed her the clip, didn't say anything, and then asked her for her opinion. She had tears in her eyes as she talked about how her 33 year long marriage to my Father (He is now deceased) was very much like that. She wouldn't know BDSM if it smacked her in the face (no pun intended) but even she could see the beauty and respect in these marriages. I never thought she'd be more open-minded and accepting than some in this "community" who are so happy to tout their own free-thinking[&o]. quote: as far as the issue of raising children in such a household, i see no harm in it. parents tend to pass on their own values to their children, and as they grow up these children can embrace or discard those values. personally i found it very sweet and touching the way that mother emphasized to her young daughter how important it is to obey and honor her father, and how even the mundane duties of life hold special significance because it is for Daddy. even more significant, that child is being raised in an environment of love and harmony, where her mother and father are complements to one another, not opponents, which is a rare thing indeed in these sad times. I'm going to say something here I've never said on these boards, daddypsprop.....I agree with you 100%[:D]. Ditto to all you have said............luci

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci As a matter of fact, they sought out Laura (not "lowrat") Boyle's book, read it, and decided to follow that model to see if it works. How is that (researching, reading, and implementing a plan) ignorant? I'd say it's quite the opposite..........slave luci Hmmm... 'Lowrat Boyle' is how I chose to call Laura Doyle rofl. Gettit, gettit? As for you thinking that picking up a book off the shelf and trying to live according to its rules is an amazing feat of personal growth, once again, I disagree (terribly sorry about that); I wouldn't call that research, I call that plain lazyness. But we won't agree on much, luci. One thing though: never, ever let him gag you. I find you cool with your mouth loudly open lol :-)

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 1:59:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Then again, if everybody thought along your lines, I wouldn't have the opportunity to disagree and would have relinquished all my rights to a life of either utter solitude, or as an addendum to a man's chattel. Hmmmm....if everybody thought along your lines, daddysprop, myself, or these women wouldn't have the opportunity to disagree with you or live as they choose either. I guess it's a good thing then that you, she, and I can all choose then. quote: Not my idea of fun, yet, I'm pretty open-minded. [sm=confused.gif]...really??? quote: Speaking of which, I think you will find that the most rabid, virulent, agressive posters here were the ones who defended Boyle's (atrocious) piece of literature (ahem). Good, "open-minded assessment" there..... quote: The few of us who DARED raise a voice of objection were ran into as if we were evil witches trying to take a toy away from a screaming toddler. Again, I would request that you back up a few pages and read. No one "screamed" at you for having your opinion. I got "aggressive" as you say but not toward what you think is right for YOU but because you started off on page one of this thread making some very hateful judgments about the clip and the women in it. YOU started the thread off like that and whenever I chimed in, it started out as defending the women's right (and thereby my own) to live as they chose and sadly, that's what I've felt the need to continue doing for all these pages now. Not that I have to defend anything but, as I've said over and over, the fact that all I stand for and live by is being dismissed as unacceptable kinda brings that instinct out in me. No...not evil witches taking a child's toy away....just people too determined that their way is the only acceptable way. That's much worse to me. quote: Brings the whole idea of tolerance back on track, I think. Yeah, it's a great concept. Look into it, will ya?.........luci

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:02:07 PM)
What are you still doing here, luci? Don't you have some pans to scrub? [sm=ugh.gif]

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:05:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Hmmm... 'Lowrat Boyle' is how I chose to call Laura Doyle rofl. Gettit, gettit? Yeah...I "got" it. quote: As for you thinking that picking up a book off the shelf and trying to live according to its rules is an amazing feat of personal growth, once again, I disagree (terribly sorry about that); I wouldn't call that research, I call that plain lazyness. You would. But, again, stay with me here, hon.....I never SAID reading a book and trying to live by it was an amazing feat of personal growth. I think many intelligent people live their lives and also read books to gain additional knowledge. You are arguing for the sake of arguing here. If you honestly think the people like ownedgirlie, daddysprop, and myself don't know anything about submission or serving that we haven't learned from a book, you really are clueless. It would be laziness to base your life around how a book told you to live. But to live a fulfilling life and further your knowledge and growth via books is a wonderful thing. You know what I meant. Why act like you don't? .....luci quote: But we won't agree on much, luci. One thing though: never, ever let him gag you. I find you cool with your mouth loudly open lol :-) I've agreed with you often when reading your posts on other threads. That's why I simply cannot understand your rabid insistence that you are "right" here in uncategorically stating that others' choices are wrong. You don't have to worry about "gagging" me unless it's in the sense that my upchuck reflex is triggered by your intolerance[;)]. You are always going to find my "mouth loudly open" when it comes to defending my right to make my own choices against ignorant bullies.......slave luci, scrubber of the pans

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol What are you still doing here, luci? Don't you have some pans to scrub? [sm=ugh.gif] No, they're already all good and shiny. I don't slack[;)].......luci

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:11:41 PM)
There's always something to do in the home, and you seem to be spending a hell of a lot of times on these boards. Are you Shiva??? Still, it was fun while it lasted, blah blah blah.

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:15:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol There's always something to do in the home, and you seem to be spending a hell of a lot of times on these boards. Are you Shiva??? Still, it was fun while it lasted, blah blah blah. There you go again, making uninformed, asanine assumptions. You don't know what my schedule is or that of my Master. If you are insinuating that spending time here means one doesn't do their duties at home, I think you just insulted many, many regulars here who are on a lot more and post a lot more than I do. Grasping at straws, I know[;)].............slave luci

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:37:17 PM)
Aaaah, luci... where is your sense of humour, my dear? Run along now [:D]

daddysprop247 -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:39:27 PM)
slaveluci, i just wanted to tell you one thing....YOU GO, GUUURL!! [sm=applause.gif] ahh, that felt good. now, i gotta get back to scrubbing those pots. [;)]

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:44:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Aaaah, luci... where is your sense of humour, my dear? Run along now [:D] My sense of humor is right where it's always been. I responded to you yesterday that I enjoyed a reasonable, civil debate with a sense of humor thrown in. That's what this was until this afternoon. I can smile and laugh at myself as well as with others but when you can't possibly defend your arguments, you resort to childish cruelty and meanness. It doesn't bother me because I see it for the defense mechanism it is (and yes, I DO have a degree in Behavioral Sciece before you ask[;)]). As I said, I simply don't see why you can't see my point. You don't have to feel "wrong" to be able to admit you see another's point, ya know? You aren't wrong in feeling the way you do about how you would never live this way. But when you categorize all people who do choose to live that way the way you have, that is wrong. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who lives this way for just a second and tell me how you'd feel to have it attacked as "sick," "creepy," "abusive," and "wrong." You probably would never admit it, but it would probably make you feel about as attacked as it has me. Peace, KittenSol.........slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:49:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 slaveluci, i just wanted to tell you one thing....YOU GO, GUUURL!! [sm=applause.gif] ahh, that felt good. now, i gotta get back to scrubbing those pots. [;)] LOL....Now I know I'm in the "Twilight Zone," daddysprop. You and I are totally agreeing on something[sm=banana.gif].....thanks for the support..........slave luci

Aswad -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:56:40 PM)
I'm probably not going to be responding to the rest of the thread, as slaveluci pretty much seems to have my POV covered, but this one stuck out like a sore thumb: quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I assure you that in other countries than the good old US of A it would be considered very odd indeed, not to say downright disturbing, if a woman called her husband by the name 'Daddy' [...] Not at all. This is the de facto standard in all areas of Norway where I have had anything to do with parents. In fact, my mother, who is now divorced from my father for a decade, still refers to him as "daddy" when talking to me sometimes. There's nothing odd about it at all. Parents get into the habit of saying "daddy" or "mummy" about each other when the kids are too young to understand the role of possessive determiners in this context, and it sticks past that point. Referring to the parent by name would be taken as odd, however, with the formality being taken as indicating a very distant and detached relationship between the parents and the child, and a "cold" family. If one is not familiar in addressing family, when is one familiar? quote: I question the sanity of mixing up the roles and the family hierarchy. I have supported LGBT marriages and other LGBT rights since forever. And as far as I am concerned, the roles are very simple: the roles of two partners who love each other. I question the sanity of restricting the acceptable range of marital configurations, and as a consequence also question the sanity of restricting the acceptable range of family configurations. The concept of a "family hierarchy" itself is a form of power exchange, except the kids don't consent, yet society doesn't care, which pretty much invalidates any other point about what kind of hierarchy they can be reared with. Allowing people to express love in the manner that seems fitting to them, and to let them raise their kids in accordance with their own values, constitutes progress, in my opinion. And as it turned out lesbian mothers do a lot better at raising kids than straight parents, particularly the male offspring, I wouldn't assume that BDSM couples would have any trouble raising kids properly at all. As for the criticisms directed at slaveluci, they seemed out of place to me, but YMMV.

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 2:58:24 PM)
And make sure they're nice and shiny. Me, I'm off to polish something else off [:)]

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 3:01:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 ahh, that felt good. now, i gotta get back to scrubbing those pots. [;)] And make sure they're nice and shiny. As for me, I'm off to polish something else off [:)].

kittinSol -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 3:05:13 PM)
Actually, none of the criticisms were directed at luci, but at the women in the 'surrendered wife' movement. That's how the whole little fracas happened: a misunderstanding which I attempted to clear up from the very beginning, in my own awkward way. Needless to say, it failed. I dared say I found Boyle's work ugly; some people took it as a personal insult - it's called conflict arousal. If you read carefully you will find the whole thing got out of hand when the submissive troops decided to erect a barrage against those that disagreed with them!

slaveluci -> RE: Surrendered Wives on "60 minutes" Austrailia (6/25/2007 3:12:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Actually, none of the criticisms were directed at luci, but at the women in the 'surrendered wife' movement. That's how the whole little fracas happened: a misunderstanding which I attempted to clear up from the very beginning, in my own awkward way. Needless to say, it failed. Exactly. They were directed at the women in the "surrendered wife" movement which I am apparently one of as I live exactly as they do. How did I ever get the impression that MY lifestyle was being point-blank dismissed as abusive and wrong?[8\|] You haven't once "attempted to clear up" any "misunderstandings" because nothing has been "misunderstood." You say the way these "surrendered wives" live and raise their children is WRONG. I live just as they do. Therefore, I clearly understand that you deem MY lifestyle WRONG. Nope, perfectly (but sadly) understood. quote: I dared say I found Boyle's work ugly; You may have called her "work" ugly but you very clearly also called the people who read and value that work as a model to incorporate into their lives ugly too. quote: some people took it as a personal insult See above. quote: If you read carefully you will find the whole thing got out of hand when the submissive troops decided to erect a barrage against those that disagreed with them! Yes, Aswad. That's EXACTLY what happened[;)].

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