RE: Trainers for submissives

RE: Trainers for submissives (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

SimplyMichael -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 8:38:33 AM)
If I was going to run a submissive bootcamp nothing would be about "learning" submission. It would be about basic things. Lots of inward thought such as self awareness, self confidence, self defense, and self empowerment. A great deal of work on communication, not how to talk but how to ensure your partner understands what you are trying to tell them in a way that elicits a desire to participate rather than become defensive as well as that same skill in reverse. How to establish, communicate, and defend boundaries as well as how to recognize, discuss, and respect someone else's. In short, how to be a strong self confident person capable of having healthy nurturing relationships. Pull that off and the rest is easy.

earthycouple -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 8:41:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If I was going to run a submissive bootcamp nothing would be about "learning" submission. It would be about basic things. Lots of inward thought such as self awareness, self confidence, self defense, and self empowerment. A great deal of work on communication, not how to talk but how to ensure your partner understands what you are trying to tell them in a way that elicits a desire to participate rather than become defensive as well as that same skill in reverse. How to establish, communicate, and defend boundaries as well as how to recognize, discuss, and respect someone else's. In short, how to be a strong self confident person capable of having healthy nurturing relationships. Pull that off and the rest is easy. Bravo! I've long learned that the only way to make any type of relationship last is to communicate effectively.

KatyLied -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 8:57:24 AM)
quote: If I was going to run a submissive bootcamp nothing would be about "learning" submission. I guess you can teach someone to be submissive. I think it's more about providing an environment in which someone wants to submit, not about teaching (training) them to be submissive. I see it as black and white, you either are submissive or you aren't. It either feels good or you are faking it.

GhitaAmati -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 9:38:34 AM)
I personally, am against the "cookie-cutter" training for submissives. But, there are training activities that can be good for submissives. Massage school is one. If its affordable for you, it can be a great asset. Not only so you can give massages to your Sir, but also you learn alot about nerve and muscle groups, helps learn whats going on during a scene. Belly dancing classes are also great as they help teach balance and grace. Also helps on your flexability. I have attended alot of submissive "bootcamps", some of which I found interesting to see others veiwpoint but didnt really take anything home for my own, others which were wonderful, as they tought self-disciplne, which I personally think is a great skill for all subs (all people actually). Sometimes learning protocols can be great, sometimes its just a neat way to learn about the way other people do things. Alot of those "bootcamps" also teach some great skills, like how to shine boots, and how to properly care for leather. There are hundreds of conventions around the country each year that teach both subs and doms, some are really great opportunity to learn about yourself. They teach self respect, how to spot a bad relationship, how to get out of a bad relationship, how to find a good relationship, scene saftey, and many other great topics. Niether doms nor subs are born knowing everything (sorry doms, know you hate to hear that). Getting together with other likeminded people can really help spread knowledge. Maybe you realize something isnt for you, but maybe you find something you cant believe you ever lived without. Its also a great tool for newbies, sometimes, when you first meet a prospective partner, the first thing they ask is what types of things you are into. If you've never been arourd any of it to know, how can you truthfullly asnwer? Alot of newbies dont even know what their choices are to say if they like it or dont like it. ghita amati

slavegirljoy -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 10:09:39 AM)
As someone who has actually been to a trainer, (and that wasn't what he called himself, that is what *he was* to me and how i related to him so, that's how i refer to him), all i can say is that it was a very positive experience. Some of it was hard for me to do but, that's what i needed and that's what i got. When i went to a trainer, i was already in a committed D/s relationship and had been for 5 years. i already was living my life as a submissive. i didn't need to go to a class or read a book or go to a trainer to learn how to be submissive. i needed some one-on-one assistance, from a Dominant who i wasn't emotionally tied to, to help me overcome some negative programming in my brain about issues that were interfering with my full acceptance of my submissiveness. For me, being submissive is about how i interact with another in a personal relationship and i don't learn about how i interact with another in a personal relationship by reading a book or watching a demonstration or attending a seminar. i learn about how i interact with another in a personal relationship by being in a personal relationship and by relating to another and reacting to how they relate to me. i agree, that what i have learned and what i need to learn, about being submissive to another, i have learned and am learning by being a submissive in a D/s relationship and i wouldn't go to a trainer to learn how to be a submissive. But, i had issues that were holding me back and going to a trainer helped me to get over those issues. Could i have achieved the same goals without going to a trainer? Very possibly. But, i think it would have taken a lot longer than the 6 or so sessions that i spent with my trainer. It was my Dom/husband's suggestion that i go to a trainer. It was my decision to seek one out and then decide to go to him, after i found a Dom who could help me with what i was looking to achieve. i have gone to fitness trainers, when i wanted help on improving my ability to reach my desired fitness goal and i went to a BDSM "trainer", when i wanted help on improving my ability to reach my desired submissiveness goal and i continue to work on both, thanks, in part to the training i received on both accounts. i don't see how one is any less valid than the other. i understand that people have different feelings about the validity or the positive aspects of BDSM trainers but, i think it's a personal decision whether to use a trainer or not and it simply promotes negative stereotypes to make such broad generalizations like, "most" people, who go to trainers, "don't have positive experiences", and "most*" trainers "are manipulative and or idiots unable to maintain an actual relationship". In fact, the trainer i went to had a slave he lived with in a fully committed relationship. i keep wondering, where are all of the posts from subs who have gone to a trainer and ended up having a bad experience? Even if someone were to feel too "embarrassed" or "ashamed" to admit it (on CollarMe, where people say pretty much anything), they could very easily create a new profile, which wouldn't identity them in any way, just so they could write about their experience, without fear of ridicule. Maybe someone will put the question up on the polls and we can see the unscientific results about how many subs have had a positive or negative experience with a trainer. As always, my personal view.____________ slave joy Owned property of Master David "..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -- F. Nietzsche quote:* ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael So for the record I stand by my opinion that most (folks, most means that while SOME may have had wonderful experiences, MOST don't) who walk around touting themselves as trainers are manipulative and or idiots unable to maintain an actual relationship and use training as some sort of stalking horse to get their rocks off. I base this on real world experience of running the largest bdsm group in a decent size metropolitan community for a couple of years, being involved in a couple of others, owning a public dungeon, playing, observing, attending classes, and talking to others in San Francisco, one of the largest and oldest BDSM communities in the US. For those who can't or won't see the difference between attending a class, offering up FREE advice, all without some quasi relationship wrapped around it isn't what we are referring to when we mock "training" and "trainers" I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 10:15:18 AM)
FR.. To me training is not about whether someone is a submissive or not, but rather how to improve on the quality of submission. C~ Edited to add: I think there are multiple ways to improve the quality of submission, training is one means.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 10:21:51 AM)
Well let's also not forget training the quality of domination. Training for me has very little to do with orientation.

KatyLied -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 10:35:46 AM)
Yep, if we are going to put ourselves in the hands of dominants for training, I hope they are duly qualified.

domiguy -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:05:20 AM)
Let me take this in another direction....I am extremely particular about whom I choose to engage within a relationship....Even though I was a "trainer" I would still hold people up to a certain light before I would impart my vast knowledge upon them. I am sure there are others who could actually care less bout who they play with because any type of attention is better than none...I wonder if Noah would be willing to train someone that he was completely unattracted to sexually? (I realize that this is coming across worse than anticipated....) I know many people enjoy public scenes...It would seem that this would lend itself perfectly to having the chance for subs and Doms alike to witness or participate in some aspect or technique that one may not be familiar with...Is this training....Me don't think so. I'm of the belief that since wiitwd is of an incredibly sexual nature....That there are many who will use the guise of teaching to obtain some subs that would otherwise be out of their reach....At the end of the day, is there anything wrong with two adults consenting to this type of play?....Well therein lies the problem....How does the sub react to something that was not explained or agreed upon but does fall in line with submission...Many would view the subs silence as compliance when actually it could be entirely to the contrary. Why not simply portray yourself with someone who has a great wealth of knowledge that would like to meet someone for a no strings attached relationship? This is honest. Noah was angry and elusive with his responses...They were hidden or just plain evasive and their was hostility within his answers....I don't know the guy. He has always come out here and shown a great deal of intelligence and class and I have no reason to believe that as a "trainer" he would operate any differently. Maybe for some it is a great schtick....Maybe subs respond to people who portray themselves as trainers or looking for friends as being rather benign in comparison to a straight forward profile that is right off the bat looking for something a little more tangible. I believe that for every one person that is legit there are way too many that would have completely ulterior motives to want to help someone out with their training...To me this only makes sense....But again the only thing I know I have in common with the majority of the folks out here is that we have access to a computer beyond that...I, or you might just be completely off our rockers.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:09:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael If I was going to run a submissive bootcamp nothing would be about "learning" submission. It would be about basic things. Lots of inward thought such as self awareness, self confidence, self defense, and self empowerment. A great deal of work on communication, not how to talk but how to ensure your partner understands what you are trying to tell them in a way that elicits a desire to participate rather than become defensive as well as that same skill in reverse. How to establish, communicate, and defend boundaries as well as how to recognize, discuss, and respect someone else's. In short, how to be a strong self confident person capable of having healthy nurturing relationships. Pull that off and the rest is easy. Awesome! Bravo! This sounds dead on the money to me. At least in terms of any past relationships, BDSM or otherwise. Yeah Yeah Yeah... I've done vanilla too. The foundation of how to do BDSM for me was established a long ass time ago, about the time when I was 13-14 and Started doing BDSM play activities without Sex with my one of my bestest friends in the whole wide world.. The Girl Next Door. There was a level of trust, communication, and just exploring and growing together. It was a two way street. Amazing how using the neighbor safeword for playing rough with other kids was incorperated into out play basically really simple "Timeout" just as if we were wrestling or playing Tag or some other game. Being concerned about how far limits were being pushed and knowing when to back off... to talk before and after about all the crazy shit that was going on. Doing a little light weight experimentation! Expressing how it felt and the sensations and everything else. Got started doing BDSM without really realizing WTF I was getting into fully... LOL.. Amazing how doing Magic tricks together, leads to rope tricks, that leads to escape tricks and finally bondage. I can go on about getting to Wax play, Knife play, acting out rape scenes without sex, Bags over heads, even a home made bed of nails... She would read through her Dads collection of Penthouse, playboys and Girlie Mags and come up with things to do at times. One or the other of us were coming up with new things to try and do... Even got into drawing on each other as well. No Trainers involved, nobody harmed, just taking things slow, safe and sane with lots of care, respect and communication. I'm sharing a lot of things right now to back SimplyMicheal up on what he just posted here. Yes, we did role playing too, call it are more.. Ummm... BDSM like evolution to childhood role playing play. There are times when I think people online here are trying to make BDSM appear to be more difficult than it actually is. Oh yeah! Static electricity can make for nice zaps to nipples or clits! How many of you guys learned about this as a kid? How many of you guys think about doing this now? This is something I've done for years now! It's really simple and is just one more thing to do to somebody. This is just one more thing I picked up from a long ass time ago. It's amazing the shit you can do to somebody from things you actually learned as a kid. Come on here just start putting 2+2 together. While I have not played with or done everything there is to do in terms of BDSM activities. I find I'm alway picking up on new tips or tricks from people. There are things I'm contemplating buying some books on and experimenting with. It's an on going process. I'm on a rant here! In terms of D/s... There's always a vanilla that's very submissive or Dom by nature. I tend to believe that BDSM is something that is rather natural part of human nature for many people. Somebody started a thread about looking at vanillas as inclusive or exclusive of BDSM. It's not like one has to have a Degree or certificate in BDSM you know. I'll say this again, I think too many people make BDSM harder than it really is at times. Sure certain activities take more skill and practice. You can expect to be able to do everything over night. Any Dom/Master in their right mind, will realize that Power Tranfers don't happen in 2.5 seconds flat either with somebody new to the lifestyle. It requires an investment on two peoples part. Sure some things are easier for those that are more experienced. Differences between teaching somebody kneeling positions. How about humiliation? A sub/slave that is used to this activitity I feel more comfortable with. However with a newbie it takes a hell of a lot more consideration when exploring this with them for the first time. Back to communication and everything SimplyMicheal just posted about in terms what he'd teach in a bootcamp program. There are a number of newbie sub/slaves that pop on this website, get bombed with some really off the wall emails from Dom/Masters that have No regard for the level of experience or even treat these sub/slaves as human being at all. WTF?? I've actually had a number of submissives share with me some of this outlandish emails! OMFG... there are days when I just want to beat my head against a wall here folks... Am I missing something?

KatyLied -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:14:42 AM)
quote: Maybe for some it is a great schtick.... If we can replace "schtick" with "kink" then I think we may be on to something. There may be kinks for dominants who need to "train" and submissives who need to be "trained." In that case I can see how people may get upset if we are misinterpreting their kink as predatory behavior.

thetammyjo -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:21:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: If I was going to run a submissive bootcamp nothing would be about "learning" submission. I guess you can teach someone to be submissive. I think it's more about providing an environment in which someone wants to submit, not about teaching (training) them to be submissive. I see it as black and white, you either are submissive or you aren't. It either feels good or you are faking it. I don't teach anyone when I train to be submissive. I offer then variety of activites and structured guidance in their own self-exploration of what they believe submission is and what type, if any, they want to pursue in their lives. Of course they are also learning about me but given the size of my bdsm library and my training in being a teacher I think I can offer a rather objective approach. Anyone who thinks they want to serve me must go through this process but I've also accepted others who simply wanted to learn. They thought I was safe and serious enough, I thought they had enough potential to become a good member of any bdsm organization or community. I have never accepted someone who simply wanted to get their jollies or who wanted to just do these things entirely separated from any local community. My time so when I do this to help someone explore I will be very very picky.

thetammyjo -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:24:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Let me take this in another direction....I am extremely particular about whom I choose to engage within a relationship....Even though I was a "trainer" I would still hold people up to a certain light before I would impart my vast knowledge upon them. I completely understand and this is my approach also. I use "train" for those of a sub orientation and "mentor" for those of a dom orientation simply because I do see a difference in the dynamics and those who came to me like those terms.

domiguy -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 11:59:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Let me take this in another direction....I am extremely particular about whom I choose to engage within a relationship....Even though I was a "trainer" I would still hold people up to a certain light before I would impart my vast knowledge upon them. I completely understand and this is my approach also. I use "train" for those of a sub orientation and "mentor" for those of a dom orientation simply because I do see a difference in the dynamics and those who came to me like those terms. I respect your opinions immensely...And I think what you have to offer is vast and I believe to be 100% honest and above board. I believe you would respect people's limitations as to what they are or not willing to explore or have "happen" to them. You have been a part of this for a much longer time frame than I...In your opinion...Are my reservations off base? I don't believe that it is a small percentage of people who would take advantage of their position of "trainer" to get what they are actually seeking... I know men...I am one of them....If I found someone to be attractive I they put me in a position of trust and power...I am afraid that there is every possibility that I would not maintain the relationship that they originally sought...I would never do anything against one's will...But again my original motivation for helping someone would just be a cover for me to possibly influence or dare I say, take advantage of the relationship and the trust that was placed in my hands by the trainee. It would all be consentual...But it would be hardly an honest approach on my part. And cute lil' sub susie, tied down with her legs spread open wide, garnishing nipple clamps, vibe or clamp on clit, a well spanked ass and a butt plug might not be in the pest position or mental state to truly understand the manipulation that has occurred to lead her to the fine fucking that she is about to experience. My approach has always been what you see is what you will get. It is, if nothing else, honest.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 12:12:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy And cute lil' sub susie, tied down with her legs spread open wide, garnishing nipple clamps, vibe or clamp on clit, a well spanked ass and a butt plug might not be in the pest position or mental state to truly understand the manipulation that has occurred to lead her to the fine fucking that she is about to experience. Now susie this is all part your slutty girl training, your Master will enjoy it knowing you have been properly broken in like the sluttly little whore you are... LOL

charlotte12 -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 12:33:08 PM)
Wow i missed alot in this thread since being gone the last few days. I don't have time to read everything now but i look forward to coming back and reading the parts i only skimmed right now. As a brief thought i would like to say that LA pretty much summed up what i've been thinking as reading more. We are all right and i have found it very informative to read this thread as it has gotten me thinking quite a bit. Ultimatly it seems to come down to the individual and communication. slavegirljoy and Woes i was happy to read your posts because they sound quite similar to the situation i am in right now. Ugh ok, i have to go back to work. I will read more soon when i finally get my internet back. ~charlotte

slavegirljoy -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 1:02:20 PM)
This is why it's so very important for a sub (and a Dom) to be very selective in who she or he decides to get involved with, whether it's a trainer or someone to date or anyone else. Men (and women) with no integrity or scruples make it more difficult for the rest. As always, my personal views. ____________ slave joy Owned property of Master David "..and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -- F. Nietzsche

thetammyjo -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 2:06:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Let me take this in another direction....I am extremely particular about whom I choose to engage within a relationship....Even though I was a "trainer" I would still hold people up to a certain light before I would impart my vast knowledge upon them. I completely understand and this is my approach also. I use "train" for those of a sub orientation and "mentor" for those of a dom orientation simply because I do see a difference in the dynamics and those who came to me like those terms. I respect your opinions immensely...And I think what you have to offer is vast and I believe to be 100% honest and above board. I believe you would respect people's limitations as to what they are or not willing to explore or have "happen" to them. You have been a part of this for a much longer time frame than I...In your opinion...Are my reservations off base? I don't believe that it is a small percentage of people who would take advantage of their position of "trainer" to get what they are actually seeking... I never think that it is unhealthy to be cautious; paranoid is different but then only if they really aren't after you. I never advert myself as a trainer -- you won't find it on my profile or my website, and I don't walk into a room (cyber or meatlife) and say "I'm a slave trainer." That formal yet individual program of training I use is used for anyone whom might be a potential Ds partner for me. Anyone interested in me in that way goes through it. It was a great way to test compatibility without building up the expectation that "this was THE ONE" shudder. Most people it turns out aren't cut out to be a slave, at least not my slave, but we continued to be friends and we continued to be in the same meatlife communities. They talked to others and only then did I start to get approached by others to help them learn. So if someone is going out of their way to say "I'm a slave trainer" I personally initially suspect that's a money-making activity -- nothing wrong with making money and you must advert if you wish to do that. Secondly I think that it's a kink probably related to wanting sex or SM with little emotional attachment. If you want to do SM, if you want to play, if you want to have casual sex, why not just say that? Ultimately we can't control what others do, honestly not even though who we may own in a BDSM way; we can only control ourselves or at least hope to exercise more control over ourselves through our own practice and growth. We can try to influence others through words and actions. So be cautious, I think that tends to be healthy when dealing with other human beings.

Noah -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 5:58:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Noah was angry and elusive with his responses...They were hidden or just plain evasive and their was hostility within his answers....I don't know the guy. He has always come out here and shown a great deal of intelligence and class and I have no reason to believe that as a "trainer" he would operate any differently. I haven't been angry. Sorry to have given that impression. Still, as you say, you don't know me. As such you can't be expected to reliably gauge my mood by comments made in an internet forum. If you'd care to state plainly the questions you refer to and indicate in what way I seemed to evade them, I'll try to engage them again with you. As you do, please consider the possibility that my responses were not angry but forthright, and try to give them one more reading as such By the way, thanks for your kind words. For my part I'm enjoying to see the person who contributes so much delicious humor around here give some of himself to this kind of discussion. But please don't stop the other stuff.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Trainers for submissives (6/27/2007 6:11:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SumterDom Playing the devil’s advocate here… I basically agree with what's being said regarding "Trainers", though I've not read all 4 pages of posts yet. I do like the talk about the submissive being better equipped to find a dominant that's right for them, however when I was thinking on that further the following thoughts came up and I'd like to throw it out there for consideration. We agree that subs need to know what a potential master will want of them, for the most part. They need to know before accepting their masters collar that they're not into...let's just say taboo forms of entertainment, before accepting the collar. Now, how would a submissive know there are certain things they do not like, can not stand, or that may even be "hard limits" until they experience them? Might "training" give them the knowledge to help them make a better choice in whose collar they wind up accepting? Maybe they can't stand knife play, or sharps, or being made to eat and drink out of a dog dish, or sleeping in a cage, eye cntact restrictions, speech control, certain rituals, etc. A "trainer" could help them experience these things before their potential master comes along and if the potential master said that...any of those things or more, were gotta haves for them then the submissive would know up front if it's going to work or not. Thoughts? I have to say that I agree with bandit...as my first post may have already indicated, I see absolutely NO need for a trainer to help a submissive learn how to "play", whether it is strictly sexual, strictly BDSM play without the sex, or sexual BDSM play. What part of that is necessarily part of submission? We have had plenty of submissives on here who have noted that they are in D/s relationships with little sex involved and/or little BDSM involved or both. Plus...as bandit noted, what a submissive might not like with their "trainer"...e.g. knifeplay: perhaps the trainer used too much fear for the submissive or came too close to cutting her or did cut her...she might love with her dominant. And finally...if you are willing to experience everything that is not specifically a limit with someone that is not going to be a long term partner and who is...in reality...not a partner at all, then what are you going to bring to that dominant that you have been "waiting for" to give those things that you would "only, ever" trust your long-term partner with? I liked what slavegirljoy had to say about trainers and their teaching...not only for the concepts that should be followed but for the recognition that once training is done, the trainee should have the right and the responsibility to recognize it and end the relationship. Yet, how many times have we seen it on these boards...and among our real life friends...the story of a submissive upset because her "trainer/mentor"...who had also indulged in BDSM play and/or sex with her... had dismissed her and "damnit, she had not meant to but she HAD developed feelings for him"?

Page: << < prev 5 6 7 [8] 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875