RE: No, Islam isn't a nation.

RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 3:44:46 PM)
I have no problem with anyone immigrating here legally and working. One of the problems I see with the Islamic community, is the same I see with any community that there is a section of that causes major problems, they do not speak out against that section. Also, the term "Nation of Islam" I have read when being applied to the Black Muslim movement here in the US started by Elijah Mohomed, nd that Malcolm X was a part of before being kicked out of it. I hate the term "The Terrorist" or "War on Terrorism". Terrorism is a tactic, usually used in insurgent or guerilla type warfare. Our enemy is the Islamic Facist that seek to destroy the US and western civilization. Before anyone starts saying the are not our enemies, then I invite you to go over to their countries and personally try and convince them of this. Before you start saying how it all got started, I know the history and there have been alot of hands in the pot, but this has been going on for centuries. I wonder how many of you even know of the Islamic sect known as Suffi's (sp?). If you study the history, you will realize that the fanatical sect of Islam that is the West's enemy, that will kill anyone regardless of gender or age, that will do whatever they believe will bring them to paradise, is growing in support in many poor nations. Our's and many other countries foreign policies have led to this, but the fact remains is that here we are. What do we do about it? I am all for securing our borders. I am all for getting off the dependency of foreign oil so that they are no longer American interest. I am all for doing alot of things that will make our country stronger against terrorist attacks, without sacrificing our individual liberties. I am all for revamping foreign policy to the extent that we are not involved abroad as much. To do that we need to revamp some things at home to attract more industry back to the US, so we are not as dependent on the world market. We need to begin to insulate ourselves, and let those abroad deal with their own problems. Those that scream about the war now though, will be screaming just as soon as we pull out and some type of genocide begins to occur, or sometype of other foreign genocide occurs. Someone always asks, why are we the worlds police force? Someone is going to do it, and the UN has not shown it does a very good job and most other nations do not either. I am also all for withdrawing from the UN until certain imbalances are corrected within the voting structure of that assembly and in the World court. But then you must ask, what do we do when extremely aggressive nations, besides us, develope weaponry that can threaten US lives? It is not always as simple as many wish it to be. Too much involvement in the World causes problems, just as ignoring growing problems until they can threaten us, is a problem. Orion

popeye1250 -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 4:17:16 PM)
Wolf, well said. I wish Bush had no problem with securing our borders and doing away with dependence on foreign oil.

farglebargle -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 5:40:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 I encourage everyone to actually read Luke 19: 11-27, to see how Farg twists things. then think about the way he quotes other things. The parable is not God comanding anyone to be killed. It is the story of a cruel king, who did that. Leviticus 20:13 Parallel Translations NASB: If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. (NASB ©1995) GWT: When a man has sexual intercourse with another man as with a woman, both men are doing something disgusting and must be put to death. They deserve to die.(GOD'S WORD®) KJV: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. ASV: And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. BBE: And if a man has sex relations with a man, the two of them have done a disgusting thing: let them be put to death; their blood will be on them. DBY: And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them. ERV: And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. JPS: And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. WBS: If a man also shall lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. WEB: "'If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. YLT: And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood is on them.

luckydog1 -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 6:22:05 PM)
Yes farg, both Jews and Muslims feel that way. Chrsitians say Jesus replaced the old laws and covenant with a new one, where you hate the sin but love the sinner. Your point is?

velvetears -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 6:24:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol This one goe out to all the people out there who believe Islam is a nation and that Muslim are necessarily anti-american. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6230498.stm Have 2 planes crumple buildings in your backyard and kill thousands of people and wonder why people get filled with rage, hate, terror and fear. If that act wasn't anti american i don't know what is.

farglebargle -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 6:36:52 PM)
My Point: Muslim fundie nuts, Jewish fundie nuts, and Christian Fundie Nuts are all equally bad, and no set of documentation has a lock on stupid fucking ideas, so posting that the Koran says Z,X,Y while neglecting to point out the Old and New testaments both contain X,Y,Z is intellectually dishonest.

luckydog1 -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 6:56:49 PM)
But neither the New or Old testament does. Prenteding that they do is intellectually dishonest. As is pretneding that Jewish law is very important to you (your anger that Lieberman cast a vote on Shabat), when it works with your political aim, and ignoring it when it doesn't.

Level -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle My Point: Muslim fundie nuts, Jewish fundie nuts, and Christian Fundie Nuts are all equally bad, and no set of documentation has a lock on stupid fucking ideas, so posting that the Koran says Z,X,Y while neglecting to point out the Old and New testaments both contain X,Y,Z is intellectually dishonest. If the point of discussion is only Islam (which this thread was), it isn't intellectually dishonest, it's to the point.

Sinergy -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:00:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Muslim fundie nuts Jewish fundie nuts Christian Fundie Nuts What do these three groups have in common. They are all "fundie nuts." Perhaps the problem is fundamentalism, and not the team jersey? Sinergy

farglebargle -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:03:07 PM)
I've already quoted both testaments, showing that each has passages which sound just as dumb as anything pulled from the Koran. QED. I point out that Lieberman is a hypocrite for saying he's Observant of Shabbos, then going to do his Political Master's bidding on Shabbos. If you think it's ok to LIE, then that's YOUR BELIEF. Personally, I don't like, or support liars. Your mileage varies. The relationship between that, and the rest of Jewish Culture is a bit of a mystery to me, but I can see you're grasping, so I'll let it slide.

farglebargle -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:05:36 PM)
It's not honest to say, "The Koran Says Kill Unbelievers", like it's some sort of EVIL THING, without pointing out that both the Old and New Testaments say essentially the same thing. If you'll toss a Muslim in prison for the rest of his life without Counsel or Trial, why not a Jew?

Level -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:15:32 PM)
We'll have to agree to disagree about the intellectual dishonesty then. Oh, and I personally wouldn't throw a Muslim in jail without the benefit of those things you mentioned. Charge them or kick them free.

kittinSol -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:18:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I have no problem with anyone immigrating here legally and working. One of the problems I see with the Islamic community, is the same I see with any community that there is a section of that causes major problems, they do not speak out against that section. Also, the term "Nation of Islam" I have read when being applied to the Black Muslim movement here in the US started by Elijah Mohomed, nd that Malcolm X was a part of before being kicked out of it. I hate the term "The Terrorist" or "War on Terrorism". Terrorism is a tactic, usually used in insurgent or guerilla type warfare. Our enemy is the Islamic Facist that seek to destroy the US and western civilization. Before anyone starts saying the are not our enemies, then I invite you to go over to their countries and personally try and convince them of this. Before you start saying how it all got started, I know the history and there have been alot of hands in the pot, but this has been going on for centuries. I wonder how many of you even know of the Islamic sect known as Suffi's (sp?). If you study the history, you will realize that the fanatical sect of Islam that is the West's enemy, that will kill anyone regardless of gender or age, that will do whatever they believe will bring them to paradise, is growing in support in many poor nations. Our's and many other countries foreign policies have led to this, but the fact remains is that here we are. What do we do about it? I am all for securing our borders. I am all for getting off the dependency of foreign oil so that they are no longer American interest. I am all for doing alot of things that will make our country stronger against terrorist attacks, without sacrificing our individual liberties. I am all for revamping foreign policy to the extent that we are not involved abroad as much. To do that we need to revamp some things at home to attract more industry back to the US, so we are not as dependent on the world market. We need to begin to insulate ourselves, and let those abroad deal with their own problems. Those that scream about the war now though, will be screaming just as soon as we pull out and some type of genocide begins to occur, or sometype of other foreign genocide occurs. Someone always asks, why are we the worlds police force? Someone is going to do it, and the UN has not shown it does a very good job and most other nations do not either. I am also all for withdrawing from the UN until certain imbalances are corrected within the voting structure of that assembly and in the World court. But then you must ask, what do we do when extremely aggressive nations, besides us, develope weaponry that can threaten US lives? It is not always as simple as many wish it to be. Too much involvement in the World causes problems, just as ignoring growing problems until they can threaten us, is a problem. Orion Okay... I have to admit to you that straight after reading your opening sentence my urge was to ditch your post altogether. But I stuck it out, after all, that is why I posted the original after all: to get a discussion going. So... I never actually spoke of 'The Nation of Islam'. I said that Islam wasn't a nation. Back to the history books. Also... has it occurred to you that everybody in the USA today is actually an immigrant, bar those that were here originally - and who were nearly completely destroyed by the good Christians? I'm very glad this post is going strong, because although I have to hit the hay I am looking forward to reading the responses to the BBC's link tomorrow. Don't let the bugs bite.

kittinSol -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:20:39 PM)
I think the current mess is all because the Irish came here in droves to escape Ireland's economical misery during the potato famine. How does that feel? [:@]

kittinSol -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:25:29 PM)
Of course I saw the cartoons. Did you hear about Salman Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses' in the nineties? You're taking a couple of isolated facts, and making a mountain out of a molehill.

kittinSol -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:27:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Exactly. The need to stay in their own country. Instead, they come over here, take jobs away from hard working Americans, and spew hate at us in our own country. Remind me, who is full of hatred again?

farglebargle -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:29:30 PM)
"take jobs away from hard working Americans" No WORKER takes any job away from anyone. The BOSSES CHOOSE to take the job away from the Properly Documented worker, and GIVE THEM TO THE ILLEGALS. If The Boss Class stopped CHOOSING to hire undocumented workers, then they'd stop coming here looking for work. "Supply Side".

Sinergy -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 7:50:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Also... has it occurred to you that everybody in the USA today is actually an immigrant, bar those that were here originally Are you talking about the ones that immigrated over the ice bridge from Siberia? Prior to them, there were no homo sapiens on the continent. Sinergy

TheHeretic -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 8:47:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Of course I saw the cartoons. Did you hear about Salman Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses' in the nineties? You're taking a couple of isolated facts, and making a mountain out of a molehill. Actually, Rushdie's book was released in the late 80's, but the Fatwa stands apparently. I"M making mountains out of molehills? The author of a boring ass book was sentenced to death for a dream sequence in a work of fiction... By a religion that shrieks worse than Fargle caught in a contradiction if you call it anything but "Peaceful." Fuck that.

Real0ne -> RE: No, Islam isn't a nation. (6/24/2007 8:52:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf The problem is not with Islam, but with Islamic Facist. Just like there is no problem with Christians, just Christian Facist. In many Islamic countries there are problems between the extremist and the moderates. If the problems stayed in theor countries, no problem. it is when it spills over into their neighbors yard there is a problem. Orion the problem is when we park our bases on their turf and try to force our undesired culture on them. The problem is also when we hire them as mercernaries to do our dirty work. and it back fires.

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