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Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 8:28:36 AM

Lordandmaster

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The last paragraph of this news item is cute:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_bong_hits

quote:

The Supreme Court tightened limits on student speech Monday, ruling against a high school student and his 14-foot-long "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" banner.

[snip]

Frederick said the banner was a nonsensical message that he first saw on a snowboard. He intended the banner to proclaim his right to say anything at all.
His principal, Deborah Morse, said the phrase was a pro-drug message that had no place at a school-sanctioned event. Frederick denied that he was advocating for drug use.

[snip]

Conservative groups that often are allied with the administration are backing Frederick out of concern that a ruling for Morse would let schools clamp down on religious expression, including speech that might oppose homosexuality or abortion.

"Ah, Snellworth, it's time we started backing free speech, you know. If they start clamping down on free speech, we might not be allowed to express our hatred of fags and fetus-killers!"

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 6/25/2007 8:29:08 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:00:43 AM

CuriousLord

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Such topics tend to inspire a curiousity in me. Just how many people understand how free speech is harmful?

Such an important topic in our time, yet I can not recall anyone else ever successfully articulating the problem.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 2

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:05:21 AM

Lordandmaster

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Anyone ELSE? What exactly does "else" mean? You mean other than you?

And just how much have you actually read about free speech? Some of those anyone elses have said a few interesting things about free speech.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Such an important topic in our time, yet I can not recall anyone else ever successfully articulating the problem.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 3

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:09:05 AM

cyberdude611

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Are you suggesting that someone or some group should be silenced because you dont like what they say?

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:10:07 AM

Lordandmaster

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Yes, of course that's what I'm suggesting. I'm a fascist. Haven't you noticed?

(in reply to cyberdude611)

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:12:54 AM

yourMissTress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Such topics tend to inspire a curiousity in me. Just how many people understand how free speech is harmful?

Such an important topic in our time, yet I can not recall anyone else ever successfully articulating the problem.

Could you please elaborate here? I think I'm confused. How is free speech harmful?

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to CuriousLord)

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:19:06 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Anyone ELSE? What exactly does "else" mean? You mean other than you?

'course.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And just how much have you actually read about free speech? Some of those anyone elses have said a few interesting things about free speech.

Not much. Though I fear you're misreading me. I said that I haven't seen anyone else articulate it. I do keep up with much political discussion. This doesn't mean I've sought down all the most renowned writers and found their works lacking in my favor. No, my friend, that's for next week. For now, this is to say I haven't noted a general understanding among the population.

I speak as an authority on logic and reason, but not as an authority on the social happenings or political writings. Still, I might be persuaded to be flattered one would assume such.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:22:28 AM

Lordandmaster

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OK, when you're ready to come out of the MMORPG world and say what the hell you believe, someone might actually pay attention to you. Until then, enjoy being an ignored authority.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

And just how much have you actually read about free speech? Some of those anyone elses have said a few interesting things about free speech.

Not much. Though I fear you're misreading me. I said that I haven't seen anyone else articulate it. I do keep up with much political discussion. This doesn't mean I've sought down all the most renowned writers and found their works lacking in my favor. No, my friend, that's for next week. For now, this is to say I haven't noted a general understanding among the population.

I speak as an authority on logic and reason, but not as an authority on the social happenings or political writings. Still, I might be persuaded to be flattered one would assume such.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 8

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:33:18 AM

farglebargle

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All anyone needs to read about Free Speech.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

"NO LAW ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH"

Period.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:36:37 AM

cyberdude611

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People who try to silence others shows either they are wrong or they have a complete lack of intelligence to win a debate.

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:39:58 AM

Eldritchdancer

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The thing I loved the most about the issue in the article is that the student wasn't on school property. He was across the street from the school. On the sidewalk. Public Property.

Master Darkmoon

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 11

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 9:53:41 AM

farglebargle

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Remember, the Supreme Court is the same body who once decided that "beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect."

and

"It would give to persons of the negro race, …the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, …the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went."

The Supreme Court, is therefore a bunch of fucking idiots.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/25/2007 9:54:33 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Eldritchdancer)

Post #: 12

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:22:53 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Could you please elaborate here? I think I'm confused. How is free speech harmful?

Free speech makes allowances for one to compel another logically. Some people like to believe in things that aren't logical. They're more comfortable this way. I would dare say that the vast majority of the population maintains at least some of such beliefs. Many with such beliefs feel their identity threatened and harmed by such logic, so free speech is harmful to them.

There are also arguments to free speech being used to determental ends, such as providing an enemy with information.

Then there's evokation through free speech (the word "fuck" can offend some, "hell" can bring about intense images of pain in some, "nigger" can make some feel horrid, etc.).

There's considerations to what speech is.. is yelling free speech? Yelling could be said to convey something that other tones couldn't. Still, it can hurt peoples' ears and provide disruption.

Are videos from a murder, or a graphic description in book form in publication, free speech? How about child porn? What if it's in ACSII art? (Pictures made out of letters and such.)

Free speech begs questions as to issues of allowable mediums and extents- who's to decide?

Anyhow, these are a few examples. I feel threats to identity, evocation, and "state secrets" sort of reasons are some of the main ways in which free speech can be harmful.

(in reply to yourMissTress)

Post #: 13

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:25:01 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

OK, when you're ready to come out of the MMORPG world and say what the hell you believe, someone might actually pay attention to you. Until then, enjoy being an ignored authority.

Someone's touchy. ;)

Edit:
You know, I tend just to just let people run off with the tail between the legs when they get sort of pissy like this. But something's bugging me. Where did the MMORPG thing come from? Am I gaining levels on World of Warcraft by not typing an essay on here? 'cause, if so, that'd be awesome.

Anyhow, board's kinda dead at the moment, so I figured I'd tease you for the bad mood you seem to be going through. Still, you seemed to talk like you've read up on this sort of thing before. So, com'n, be civil and try to have a discussion. It's your thread, after all.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 6/25/2007 11:18:30 AM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 14

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:26:14 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

All anyone needs to read about Free Speech.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

"NO LAW ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH"

Period.

In this instance, how would you define "free speech"?

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 15

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:35:47 AM

mrbob726

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fargle - it sure is nice to see how timely your supreme court references are!

_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 16

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:37:05 AM

farglebargle

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Free = Not subject to external restraint

Speech = Expressing thoughts, feelings, or perceptions by the articulation of words.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 17

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:38:58 AM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

fargle - it sure is nice to see how timely your supreme court references are!

Wrong is Wrong.

If a body is capable of such egregious jackassery in the past, and it hasn't changed, then why would anyone assume they are all of a sudden capable of making correct decisions now?

You don't celebrate July 4th and the Declaration of Independence because it happened in 1776?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/25/2007 10:39:36 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to mrbob726)

Post #: 18

RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:39:12 AM

mnottertail

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I personally have taken several bong hits because of christ.

Ravi 'Ron' Shankar

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Religious Right rediscovers free speech! - 6/25/2007 10:39:36 AM

CuriousLord

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Free = Not subject to external restraint

Speech = Expressing thoughts, feelings, or perceptions by the articulation of words.

Alright, so let's say.. someone wanted to tell an eight-year old girl all about how he was going to rape her. (But he didn't actually intend on raping her, he was just talking, expressing his thoughts.) Would you argue that this is legal?

Not to back you into a corner, but I'm looking to understand your feelings.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 20

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