RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising.

RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 3:23:53 AM)
I was going to make the same point MC - American people shouldnt feel afraid to come over to Europe if they want to. Having travelled all over the east and west of Europe (though not Poland as yet!) I have to say it feels far safer to me as a Brit than the UK does - though maybe thats down to the places I go and more importantly, dont go. The only time I ever felt threatened was in Belgium of all places, but that was down to some local idiots and not reflective of the country as a whole. As for being a gay or lesbian visitor in the more conservative countries - well, unless youre with your partner then how is anyone going to know your sexuality unless you reveal it in some way? I've known quite a few from both sides through working on the police advisory group, and whilst yes in some cases I might guess in other circumstances from their demeanour, in several other cases one would have no clue thereby. There isnt any way to tell - which is why the Gay Police Association have to issue their information to all officers, just in case! For most of us transitioning the gender lines though, its a lot more obvious. And regarding pretending to be Canadian - I thought South Park might offer some clues? I have to say though that my grandma never seemed to look any different. E

dragone -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 8:31:28 AM)
Hey meatcleaver; get it straight; I have not 'Blamed Britian' get it!!! Where did these fools come from? Where? Afganistan, turkey? They came from England, ENGLAND. Who were they? English, right. Was the US not an ENGLISH COLONY? or was it Turkey, or....gee now I don't know who I alledgely, am accused of ....Blaming?????? I agree with what you write here, the english busnessmen sought & saw a venue to make money, that venue being the 'new lands'; so they also saw a way to get rid of the insugents of the country; offer convicted death penality criminals a way out, the diseased out of the country lest they infect the rest of the people, etc, etc, and along this business opportunity these religious insurgents saw an opportunity as well, to exploit in their own way. So here they come, all, to this 'new land'. Another thing to add; these English Piligrims; here, plant and grow, crops for monitary yeild; having not considered, the American climate, and thus comes the winter, and these ENGLISH are starving to death, near extinction, being ravaged by their own diseases they brought with them. And the native inhabitants, seeing the foolish blight of these poor souls, help them out, suppling food and lodging, to sustain them through the season. Now, comes years later, and someone, in America, creates the 'Thanksgiving' myth. You know ...how the piligrims invited the naked savages to eat dinner with turkey, TURKEY. That's where it came from. Okay, going back to the original story; So, these english are sustained through the 'non-growth season'; and they grow in numbers, others coming here from ENGLAND; to take part of the opportunities that this new world offered. And, they.... attacked and killed the very same native population which had helped them survive, just a year earlier, taking their lands. I did NOT blame England; that this was some sort of 'plot' against the United States, hell, this country wasn't even the United States; this entire colonization, was strictly a business affair, nothing wrong with grabbing hold of an oppurtunity to do business....however, what would you expect the outcome to be, given the types of dredge that came here, those escaping death and prolonged imprisonment, the sick, the poor and ravaged with no hope at all. They became, well, they became ...the United States.

dragone -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 8:44:54 AM)
Hey Pahunkboy; I don't know, how to 'look' and speak like a Canadian. I mean, when I was there, I found them to be really nice people, really great...trusting, friendly, laid back, casual, content, easygoing....and so much so; they hardly saw a need to lock and barracade themselves in their homes...well, at least then. The point I was in hopes people would realize is;.....Americans are hated, world wide, and every american is percieved as a war monger, arrogant, a liar, money grabbing elitist...a terrorist;...and RICH. Please note: I said percieved, not are; only some, are as I described here. And why is this?

dragone -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 9:03:33 AM)
Hello Lady Ellen; Hey, I was in Europe, just recently; and In my 'western-cowboy costume' (I like the shit); I was in France too; and I found NO arrogances, as I had been forewarned; well in fact, where ever I went, I was treated fine. People would come up to me, and ask 'Texas"; and then would start a conversation; I made jokes, acknowledged how I found their country and culture fascinating, even at the airport with the police and their machine guns hanging from their shoulders; I was in awe, and I MEANT IT ALL. I had my old 'film' Linhof hanging around my neck; and I was treated kindly, ...at dinner in a cafe, the waiters being so forceful wanting me to sample their speciality of the house, proud people, ....and I Geniuenly appreciated each and every one of them and each and every one of the people I met in their country. Now, almost every conversation turned to Bush and the US policies...and not to write a volume here, every one sumarized with saying....."the real terrorist is your president." And they were angry, but not at me. I would hope people here on these forums would take the time to read with a little, wee bit more understanding and comprehension; laying aside the arguementive posture.

LadyEllen -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 9:09:44 AM)
Dragone - I hope you dont have the wrong idea? There's only two Brit posters here that I can think of that have any sort of "a problem" with the US, OK? (and neither of them is me!) The rest of us are sympathetic to the cultural differences and understand that you're not all cut from the same cloth and that the real problem is US foreign policy, which is no one's fault but those few who organise it. E

dragone -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 11:18:36 AM)
Hello Lady Ellen; No please, don't get me wrong; I'm not angry, however my posts may come off that way; I simply do not possess the quality of explanation and eloquence that you or other posters demonstrate. So, try as I may, I read as an angry and bitter person. I don't hold any grudge toward any country, except the Germans for Hitler; there I admit I may be a bit over zealous in my writings. Any encounter I have had in other countries, made me feel, upon returning to america...that we americans are being cheated and lied to, and exploited. Simple as that. Why americans are in danger in other countries, is just plainly, due to...now name it....the BUSH US policies; this war, how it came about, his election...they put it this way, you guys..."we are NOT going to live under the US boot." GEEZUS....where have you heard that before? Who are they comparing us to? What has caused that type of remark? Maybe I didn't get any of the 'forewarned' hate, because I looked like, was attired like, an idiot. I did enjoy myself, and I would move there, France, England, in spite of their economic woes...and where does that come from, what country wants it thus and helps it along.....point a finger, go ahead.

philosophy -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 1:13:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy Arts subsidies are basically long term investments....... The point I am trying to make is that Art should stand on its own feet and if it had mainstream appeal subsidy would not be required. NO? ..no, and for the same reason that start up businesses get the same sort of subsidies. The vast majority of such businesses fail, yet as a society we recognise that the ones that succeed have societal and economic benefits that outweight the net effect of the failures. The arts are basically the same thing, businesses that often fail but the successes are worth the candle. To try and draw an artificial distinction between mainstream business and the arts is disingenuous.

seeksfemslave -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 3:13:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy Arts subsidies are basically long term investments....... The point I am trying to make is that Art should stand on its own feet and if it had mainstream appeal subsidy would not be required. NO? ..no, and for the same reason that start up businesses get the same sort of subsidies. The vast majority of such businesses fail, yet as a society we recognise that the ones that succeed have societal and economic benefits that outweight the net effect of the failures. The arts are basically the same thing, businesses that often fail but the successes are worth the candle. To try and draw an artificial distinction between mainstream business and the arts is disingenuous. Artists do this all the while. They say:we need fully integrated personalities like us, able to recognise that a Jackson Pollack daub is really a comment on chaos theory or that more drama workshops are needed etc etc bla bla bla circumloction and general purpose bullshit. when I say what we really need is some clodhopper who wants to build a better shithouse, reduce the likelyhood of disease benefit society and make a profit at the same time. NO ?

philosophy -> RE: I lost my case. Hardly surprising. (6/29/2007 3:33:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy To try and draw an artificial distinction between mainstream business and the arts is disingenuous. quote: ORIGINAL seeksfemslave Artists do this all the while. ......... when I say what we really need is some clodhopper who wants to build a better shithouse, reduce the likelyhood of disease benefit society and make a profit at the same time. NO ? ...er, no again. All you're doing is the same thing you object to artists doing but from the other side. Not all such enterprises that you describe succeed, yet they gain a similar level of subsidy in the shape of tax breaks etc as artists get from the arts council. To paraphrase your argument...'apples and oranges are basically the same thing, ie fruit......but i don't like apples so take the funding away from the orchard owners'........ [edited for missing HTML tags....again, le sigh]

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