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Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 6:37:34 AM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
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I noticed many Dominants have written into their profiles, "No subs who top from the bottom." I have my own idea of what topping from the bottom means. It can be as simple as, "Please Mistress, I don't want you to touch my belly button," to "Mistress, you can't shave my balls." And the list can go on.

Topping from the bottom to me, does not mean, that the submissive can't use a safeword, nor does it mean they can't imform me that they have hemmorhoids & can't handle anal sex. Of course, calling out a safeword constantly just because the submissive doesn't really like things (Not talking danger things or things that mean said submissive is in distress,) can be aggrevating. Done constantly, & over simple things, that can be construed by some as topping from the bottom.

I have known some Dominants that feel any hard limit from their submissive, is topping from the bottom. I don't agree, but I know some feel their Dominance is sufficient for their submissives to submit to anything.

For the sake of discussion, I would like to hear some views from both the Dominants, & submissives here on this site. What do you think?

Post #: 1

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 6:44:46 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, you will note that for most of the Dominatrixes (gawd that is a hawt word) out here, they get a great deal of subs demanding that their fantasies are worked out to the nth degree and in the style in their head.... Let me sniff your farts, let me lick your dirty feet, piss on my head in front of your grilfrends (intentional) and your preacher......

Most don't feel like that is symbiotic....

from the Dom side, I will let you buy me expensive clothes, but I don't do windows and am not a doormat and yadda yadda yadda

Most don't feel like that is symbiotic....

Of course, there is so much more.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 2

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:04:43 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Well, as a submissive who occasionally tops, I would say any dominant who enjoys being a bottom will Top from the Bottom to a certain extent. Nothing negative there - and lots of enjoyment.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 6/28/2007 7:05:45 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 3

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:05:37 AM

goodpet

Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
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I would like to add that the intent is important.

Sharing what is going on in my head, my body, what i am feeling or even what i would like or not like is good communication if my objective is to share and give my Sir information about me (including the likes and dislikes).

If i share with the intent to control and determine the outcome or manipulate the Dom then that is what i call "Topping from the bottom".

So the same comment could be either good communication or not. makes it hard to know sometimes. but the bottom knows what their intent is or was. and the Top will learn pretty quickly..

General negotiations is not topping from the bottom, but some either do not know how to negotiate or they are new (or they just like to) script out the scene 100%. that is often seen as topping from the bottom since the bottom is controlling it all out.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 4

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:20:50 AM

kamissa

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline

This seems a subject that is only going to be definitive on a one to one basis... Im my experience it is used most often if a Dom/Domme is pissed off because a sub gets opinionated or doesnt comply in some manner to any one thing.
When I see it in a profile it tells me that the Dom can be a bit of a walk the line controlling and that in his worst day - expect an argument or a little bitchy venting if your not towing the proverbial line HIS way 150%.
Does a true submissive top from the bottom ?
I think not.

That defines a Switch in my opinion. Not a Dom and certainly not a Submissive. Smiles Brightly

But ......
What would I know. It is just a thought .....Right !?
*winks*

(in reply to goodpet)

Post #: 5

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:24:01 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

And what about a submissive who is mentoring a dominant? Because they are topping from below that means they aren't 'true'.

Gawd - Katy - where are you when I need you....

Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to kamissa)

Post #: 6

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:31:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1088321/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#1088330
Topping from the bottom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_779482/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#779640
Are you guilty of topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_556153/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#556372
Is this topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_553744/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#553800
Topping from the bottom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_427745/mpage_1/key_topping%252Cbottom/tm.htm#428489
Topping from the bottom...

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 7

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:32:39 AM

earthycouple

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Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

For me topping from the bottom is trying to control something that he should not be trying to control. I'll first say that I've never had a problem with Robert topping from the bottom. He simply doesn't do it. But for the sake of discussion...

Suppose Robert says to me just as I am about ready to take a flogger to his ass "Mistress, I beg you, please not the flogger tonight, how about canes instead?" For me that is not topping from the bottom it is a request that I can grant or deny. If he says "Mistress I don't want the canes tonight, I can't believe you would use them on me knowing I'm not in the mood." **pout pout** That is topping from the bottom. He is willfully trying to manipulate me with his attitude, mood and wants.

It is all about his intent and attitude. If he trys to be sneaky and alter my decisions that's topping from the bottom. If he's whiny and pouty it's topping from the bottom. If it's a straight forward request then it's just that, a request.

I am a firm believer in limits; whether acute like the hemorrhoids the OP mentioned or constant. That is never topping from the bottom as far as I'm concerned.

Safewords are something in which I also agree. Though I make it clear up front for what a safeword is used. If you don't agree with my terms for using a safeword I'm the wrong person for the submissive. Safewords are for harmful situations and breaching limits. If I am not harming (let us not forget harm and hurt two entirely different things) you physically or mentally and I am not crossing a hard limit then you may not safeword. Period. (I don't do things to encourage safewords; I try to always be more intelligent than that).

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to goodpet)

Post #: 8

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 7:38:06 AM

Mastermozilla

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

I would never allow it because I am just not comfortable with authority at all.

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 9

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 8:34:06 AM

viperess

Posts: 290
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: offline

Greetings,
To me topping from the bottom means manipulating and trying to control your Master be it in or out of the bedroom. Such as since i am a pain slut if i were to act out just to make Him take a crop or other fun toy to me. Or to whine or complain about what He does or does not do in order to get my way. To me anyhow i think it is wrong for a slave to act as such. But then again that is just this old slaves 2cents worth.
Respectfully,

_____________________________

viperess slave of BlackTarnHeart
heart and chain sister to velvetvixen68

(in reply to Mastermozilla)

Post #: 10

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 9:50:21 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

Gawd - Katy - where are you when I need you....

HUGS!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to viperess)

Post #: 11

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 10:13:04 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

it is the difference between a request and a demand.

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This is him

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(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 12

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 10:42:54 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

It's just info. Unfortunately there are dominants out there who are highly insecure and who can't accept that the bottom does indeed know their own limits and tolerances better than does a top they just met.

As far as the example of attempting manipulation goes, presumably the dom/me would notice this and just by identifying it negate the ability to manipulate sneakily. In a case such as that, it would be worthwhile for the dom to say "If you don't feel up to a cane tonight, then say so straight out" and delay the play until after the sub learned that to this dom/me it was safe to make a straightforward request.

Another way to stop the manipulation in a relationship where play tends to be rather rough would be "Don't feel like a cane? sorry babe, better hold on tight because a cane it will be" which still gets the dom/mes favorite activity in while acknowledging the bottom's feelings.

You can only be manipulated if you allow it. Personally, it took quite a while before I felt safe to say things straight out so when I would attempt to protect myself in a sideways manner, he would laugh and acknowledge my intent. Since he's a very caring sensualist, he would indulge me but it was obvious that it was his decision to do so. At no time did he ever think I was controlling him and with time I became more able to say that I didn't feel up to things right then rather than accept passively something that I didn't think I could handle well, and have a panic attack in the middle of. But he would rather I opt out ahead than have it end badly.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 13

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 10:46:02 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Topping from the bottom is any effort by the submissive to manipulate the Dominant into getting what the sub wants, or getting out of what the Dom wants. But this has nothing whatever to do with safe words, hard limits, etc. Those are always honored, assuming they were built into the individual contract between the D/s couple.

That being said, I don't see the point in a Dominant putting in their profile "No subs who top from the bottom." Topping from the bottom is a problem with the Dominant, not the submissive. Either the Dominant is in control or they are not. To my way of thinking, someone who puts that phrase in their profile are essentially saying they cannot control their submissive.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 14

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 1:50:29 PM

masterdstar

Posts: 160
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Simple; it is the critical difference between subs and slaves; subs always have a list or escape hatch or “limits”. Apply any label what you want but when the “submissives” wants are more important than the Dominants needs then it is Topping from the bottom, but then as more and more vanilla Ds/Sm players enter the scene it is inevitable.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 15

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 1:51:37 PM

MissOchistic

Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline

To me, it is simply any attempt to MAKE your Dominant do what you want them to. This does not include asking them nicely, or even stating bluntly something you'd really like.

But, say, "Oh, yeah, now go a little lower..." is a command.

Bad bottom! Spank spank spank!

_____________________________

"The amount i care for Thee
is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 16

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 2:01:30 PM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline

I wanted to thank you all for not pointing out my typing error with the word bottom on my post. I just noticed it. I apologize. And you all have been very gracious. I think I need new glasses. I hadn't noticed before I posted. Thanks so much.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 17

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 2:11:20 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I'm not sure where topping from the bottom became negative in and of itself. Certainly, trying to be manipulative can be negative...but not always.

I have no need to top from the bottom in my current relationship, but I have been in relationships that have had that need. I've been the more experienced partner and showed someone the ropes, so to speak. I would definitely consider that topping from the bottom, but I wouldn't consider it negative at all.

I understand where topping from the bottom can and is a bad thing, but topping from the bottom doesn't deserve a blanket negative, in my opinion.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 18

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 4:36:39 PM

goodgirl85

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline

Some have accused me of topping from the bottom, but I don't really. I'm just a brat.... and sometimes I act out. I never intentionally misbehave to get punished. I may get pissed or upset at something my Dom has said-- or not said-- and I may without thinking say something sarcastic, and maybe a bit disrespectful ( I don't think I have ever done this with my current Dom)
I could if I so chose to do so decide to post a thread asking "How do I tell my Dom I want to be shared" or "How do I tell my Dom I want to try figging". In my case that would be topping from the bottom, IMO, because he reads the threads and he looks for my posts. By posting these threads, I am in a way manipulating the situation, by telling him what I want without directly telling him.

Subs are Subs, not doormats. We ARE allowed to have limits, (both hard and soft) and we have the right to have them respected.
Just be careful if you have a creative Dom like mine, when stating likes and limits. From now on if someone asks me if I like my hair pulled, I will, and very seriously, state, That I only like the hair on my head to be pulled. Though, if he smiles and understands what I mean I would probably be more interested in him just because he would obviously be creative. And for those of you who are having trouble understanding --- pulling at some missed hairs around my c*nt is not very enjoyable.

Just my thoughts and ideas.

girl

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 19

RE: Topping from the Bottoth - 6/28/2007 4:46:03 PM

VGE07

Posts: 1
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

To me topping from the bottom means manipulating and trying to control your Master be it in or out of the bedroom.

I have to agree. I've never thought that topping from the bottom had anything at all to do with safewords, or specific activities. For me ~ it's trying to control the Top. There are many ways to do that, should one be inclined. Early on in my years in this venue, I'm certain I did it. BUT ~ I was with a Switch and we were both novice in the whole ordeal. Today, I'm like Dommes/Doms that post in their profile "no topping from the bottom" ~ I just post the I don't do that. Why on earth would I want to be in a D/s relationship on the bottom if I really want to Top? Makes little sense to me, but then again ~ I'm an overanalyzer. LOL

SS&C

(in reply to goodgirl85)

Post #: 20

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