RE: Topping from the Bottoth (Full Version)

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LadyJaye -> RE: Topping from the Bottoth (6/28/2007 5:25:04 PM)

The first thing that comes to mind when I hear of people topping from the bottom constantly is that they are a "bottom" and not submissive.. they are trying to control everything. 

I will say that Topping from the bottom in a teaching situation as requested is fine and expected.  But then again the Top has given permission to do that so they are still controlling things are they not?



KnightofMists -> RE: Topping from the Bottoth (6/28/2007 5:35:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

For the sake of discussion, I would like to hear some views from both the Dominants, & submissives here on this site.  What do you think?


My standard View reposted

My take on the Term “Topping from the Bottom”

The phrase implies some basic definition into the label Top and Bottom.  In essence, when people use this phrase they are indicating that TOP is not only the giver of the action within a scene, but they are also in control of the scene as well.  It also indicates that to bottom is to receive the action of play and give up control of what shall occur.  These definitions actually cause many people a lot of problems in that it is combining two concepts and interpreting them as one.  Being able to look at these concepts separately will allow a person to better the concepts.

Consider first that TOP is the giver of action (behavior) within play,  While the bottom is the receiver of action (behavior) within play.  It should be noted that an action or behavior is not inherently Dominant or submissive in nature.  As an example; Oral sex!  Both Dominant and submissives alike perform the act, therefore the act itself doesn’t define Dominance or submission some other construct does.

Therefore, what is the other construct that determines Dominance or submission?
My answer is Motivation!  It is the individual’s motivation of performing the action or behavior that will dictate Dominance/submission.  Specifically it is the motivation of having or giving up of control in the choices of the actions that will occur.  The person’s motivation will decide who has the authority/control within the dynamics of the scene.

The below diagram is to help understand how this works.

                                  
                                Top
                              (Giver)
                                  |
                                  |
                                  |
Dom--------------------------------------- Sub    < Motivation(control) axis
(Dominate)                 |                   (Submit)
                                  |
                                  |
                              Bottom
                            (receiver)

                                  ^
                       Action(Behavior) axis



Politesub53 -> RE: Topping from the Bottoth (6/28/2007 5:58:49 PM)

KnightofMists, your example of oral play can surely work two ways. If the top orders the bottom to perform oral, then surely the to p is the reciever of the play but still "Top"
I fully understand the point about motivation, and this is very important. If the bottom has the motivational reasons or the intent, to make the play about suiting their needs. Then, this is where they become the top.

This is where my problem with labels comes in, someone who considers themself a bottom must submit during play. To try and keep any form of control, during play, makes then neither submissive or bottom in my opinion.

Taking this further, there must be people who love to act as the bottom, yet still be in control, so what label do these people get ?
[;)]




KnightofMists -> RE: Topping from the Bottoth (6/28/2007 6:08:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

, someone who considers themself a bottom must submit during play.


um  no.. a bottom need not submit.  Bottoming is just an act of recieving in my opinion.  A bottom could be telling the Top what they want where they want it and even how they want it.  They can control it step by step..  somtimes the control is given a wider field to play... and they slowly release some control to the Top.

Your problem with the labels is because you do the same that many do... combine the concepts into one label.

Dominating Top (the typical Dominant generality)
Submissive Top (aka Service Top)
Dominating Bottom (Control and Sensation Freak *g*)
Submissive Bottom (the typical submissive generality)



Politesub53 -> RE: Topping from the Bottoth (6/28/2007 6:41:39 PM)

With respect, my problem with labels is that there is no accepted definition. One persons slave is another persons submissive and so on. It would be far better for many newcomers if there were indeed well defined definitions.

Thanks for the term dominating bottom, it was that which i was asking for in my line. i can see where a Dominating bottom would not submit, at least initially.

[;)]



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