Tax question-US federal

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Tax question-US federal

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Tax question-US federal

Page: [1]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 6:49:03 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

OK, I can handle those people but this guy can't. Actually he pretty much volunteers. So all this stuff from the radicals around here is irrelevant, including me. This is outside my pervue so far that I can't give good advice.

OK, this guy was divorced in absentia. He didn't get notice, but that has been discussed. What's done is done.

Now there are no more income tax refunds for him. But they do go to pay back support and he has no problem with that. Thing is they are taking out $95 per week. That is close to $5,000 per year. Now this is for more than one kid, like three.

Now the way I see it with absolute evidence that he is paying this amount, shouldn't he be able to take at least one of those kids as a deduction ? My Parents always worked it out, they took who they took to get the max back and split it up equitably, but that is impossible in this situation. This is quite the adversarial situation and I think he is ony going to see her in court. She has also illegal kept the kids from him for years.

There is a possibility of a modification of the order by the divorce court, after he gets the money for a lawyer. I could write his submissions to the court but I don't think he is capable of representing himself for something like this. And he agrees. I can't go without a law license so he is stuck getting a lawyer.

But in the meantime, that should amount to a deduction at that rate. That's I think $4,940 per year. That is above and beyond ½ the suport of a child. Now this guy would get no extra cash out of the check, but it would pay down the debt.

With the deduction proven in paperwork, why not ?

If anyone knows, I would like to know.

T

Post #: 1

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 6:58:09 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Welcome to the real world Termy

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 2

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 7:07:59 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

And this is why I have a CPA...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 3

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 7:11:25 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

i dont know how 5 k can be considered 50% upkeep .....house payment in most places wouldnt be half covered by that amount...add food, clothes, dr, little league, school lunches, skating, etc etc..........

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 4

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 7:29:39 PM

clover

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

I think that the court will look at the percentage of all the kids' expenses he's paying. They won't see it as him paying over 50% of one child's expenses. 50% for one child would be 1/6 for all of them, which will probably not entitle him to any exemptions. Maybe if it was over 33% of all expenses, they'd give him 1 of the 3 exemptions each year, but even then they wouldn't have to.

< Message edited by clover -- 6/28/2007 7:44:54 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 5

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 8:30:48 PM

zerosignal

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/13/2007
Status: offline

Typically these matters are handled in divorce decrees. Parents, particularly noncustodial ones, can't unilaterally decided that their contributions to their children are sufficient to earn them a tax deduction, no matter how much (or little) of a good faith basis for that conclusion they might have. If this guy really feels as though he deserves a tax break, the best thing for him to do is petition the Probate Court that issued his divorce decree for a modification allowing him to claim one child as a tax deduction, and his former spouse to claim the other(s). That is what my parents did with me.

Disclaimer: I am not a practicing attorney. Do not rely on this as legal advice. This is friendly advice; if you need legal advice, please consult a lawyer admitted to the bar of the relevant jurisdiction.

(in reply to clover)

Post #: 6

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 8:50:29 PM

QuietlySeeking

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

This is not legal or tax advice, simply a personal observation by someone who has filed for several years as a non-custodial parent.

The only ways the IRS accepts a child deduction from a non-custodial parent is in two cases: "Form 8332 - Release of Claim for Child of Divorced or Separated Parents" or by a similar declaration in a court order which has to meet guidelines set out by the IRS in the instructions on Form 8332.

If you go to www.irs.gov and type in 8332 in the Search box, the instructions will explain the requirements for both of the above-mentioned examples.

In addition, most states are going to an "Income Share Model" which takes into account both his and her income when awarding child support. Part of the problem that your friend is experiencing is that he is "in arrears" (owing back child support). Although I am not rendering legal advice here, just my own personal opinion, I doubt you will find a sympathetic judge when your friend has "past due" child support.

YMMV

< Message edited by QuietlySeeking -- 6/28/2007 8:56:14 PM >

(in reply to zerosignal)

Post #: 7

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 9:09:14 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Seeks, when you already have a bunch of kids, 5K helps. Just feed them all at the same time. Some of the best Parents I know lived within their means. I know nother guy who is disabled and they keep yanking his driver's license, and they keep giving it back collecting the reinstament fee of course. And remember if the family hadn't broken up, he would not be required to keep his ex and kids in a style to which he can no longe rafford. Both of these guys were homeless for a time.

One got pissed off and punched a wal, caught his olady in his bed with another guy, the other did nothing.

What is to stop the court from ordering $10,000 per month ?

clov, that is only if the shit hits the fan, he could go into tax court and fight her I think. But then, every taxpayer loses there. Actually a divorce court used to able to decree who gets what deductions, at least in Ohio. Of course we haven't heard of the Constitution here for many years. F. Lee Bailey left in disgust.

I would like to see the shit really hit the fan, he has a really good case here. Better it happen in divorce court though, with her tried for perjury later.

_______

I don't want to go into more specifics right now, but the guy is expected to maintain a certain lifestyle for the kids even if he is living under a bridge. This is ridiculous. And the broads who fell out of love probbly spend the money on themselves. In each case the guy got moved on out, made homeless, and the broad moved in a new guy, and was probably cheating on him for awhile. They fall out of love they get a check ?

And I see both sides, I know people who make out well in divorce court, but not in absentia.

A possible solution might be that if she has the kids she gets ½ his take home pay. Or maybe a third if she threw him out. Something like that.

The way it is now, lawyers get richer. That's not sop bad, I know some lawyers, the big problem is that the rest of us get poorer.

T

(in reply to clover)

Post #: 8

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 10:13:35 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

well absentia is a bitch because now precedence comes into effect and everything is pretty much cast in concrete. Back tracking is going to be an expensive row to hoe. He can try to pettition as someone else mentioned. Does he have a copy of the divorce decree? Does it specify about taxes? Could always send her a letter saying "its my turn" so do not file a claim, I am filing this year. (Then watch the shit hit the fan when the irs comes back at them for both filing).

The problem is that he had his chance to "handle business" and he was sleeping on his post. Tough to back track man. Petition is the only option that i can see. Pretty much at the mercy of the court with a dirty skirt.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 9

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/28/2007 11:03:51 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

I see a couple of people got in edgewise, great.

It is starting to look like he isn't getting shit, mainly because he is in arrears and a good portion of what he is paying is in arrears. but what if it wasn't ?

Or what if the $75 per week was current and $20 was for arrears ? Actually $75 is significant. I know I got credit cards. That amounts to $3,900 per year. Now that would be half of anything less than $7,800 per year. Under IRS guidelines, you do not need physical custody to claim the deduction. If so, I know a few people who would be seriously fucked.

But then think of the lifestyle, are we talking a seriously expensive school, or perhaps a rich town with seriously good schools ? Both cost. Not everybody gets that, there is no guarantee to say the least.

I've heard of divorce settlements that included ongoing medical coverage for the ex, and all her subsequent children, and I am surprised she didn't ask for it for her new beau ! Or all this shit and a pound of weed ! I've seen where the cops were there EVERY time they picked up or dropped off the kids.

What the fuck is wrong with people ?

Bottom line is this, it really doesn't matter that "they" are killing us, we are killing ourselves.

T

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 10

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/29/2007 12:30:01 AM

clover

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Or what if the $75 per week was current and $20 was for arrears ? Actually $75 is significant. I know I got credit cards. That amounts to $3,900 per year. Now that would be half of anything less than $7,800 per year. Under IRS guidelines, you do not need physical custody to claim the deduction. If so, I know a few people who would be seriously fucked.

50% physical custody is needed to claim a dependent exemption, according to IRS guidelines, unless you use form 8332 as QuietlySeeking mentioned or unless there is a court order allowing you to claim it. I think (but not 100% sure) that form 8332 requires the ex-spouse's signature, meaning she would have to agree to it. I'm guessing in this case that that's not gonna happen.
So the only other option is a court order, and since your friend is in arrears on child support, there's a high possibility that's not gonna work out too well, either. Still, it could be worth a shot.

$75 per week is not that much for 3 children. Everyone I personally know who has paid child support has paid almost twice that for 1 child, in addition to being required to carry medical insurance for the child (not the mother...I think that would fall under alimony). I don't know how old the children are, but childcare alone runs about $500 per month here in NC for 1 child. Add in every other expense required to raise 3 children, and I honestly don't believe that $75 a week is worth a tax exemption. The custodial parent, who has the greater burden for expenses, probably needs that deduction a lot more than your friend.

That said...who will get the largest refund using the extra exemption? If the mother will get more money faster if he claims the exemption than if she claimed it herself, she might agree to it temporarily since his refund will go to her to pay for arrears. And then, when the arrears is paid off, she could again claim all 3 dependents.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 11

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/29/2007 2:13:32 AM

daddysblondie

Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

I'm not a CPA, but i do have a degree in accounting.

It *should* be stated in the divorce decree. I think typically, parents switch off, each one getting theexemption every other year. I know that was originally what was discussed when I was going through my own divorce. In my case though, I was offered and took and extra $100 a month to give the exemption up to my ex.

If it's not currently in the divorce decree, he could certainly go back and petition for it, but, imo, that's ultimately a lot of money to pay to an attorney for what will amount to little in the long run.

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 12

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/29/2007 5:51:42 AM

sublimelysensual

Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

I'm in a situation somewhat similar to this, and what my CPA has advised me, is that basically having it stated in a court decree means nada. One of the two forms mentioned above has to be used for a non-custodial parent to claim the child. The IRS looks at who has custody for the majority part of the year, period. As far as the $5000..go pay rent, car payments, insurance, groceries, medical deductibles, school supplies, personal needs, etc, for a year, and then let me know how far that gets you..mind you that's not including things like swimming lessons, dance, soccer, et al. Just my two cents, as usual...

-a

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to daddysblondie)

Post #: 13

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/29/2007 10:09:30 AM

QuietlySeeking

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

I'm in a situation somewhat similar to this, and what my CPA has advised me, is that basically having it stated in a court decree means nada. One of the two forms mentioned above has to be used for a non-custodial parent to claim the child. The IRS looks at who has custody for the majority part of the year, period. As far as the $5000..go pay rent, car payments, insurance, groceries, medical deductibles, school supplies, personal needs, etc, for a year, and then let me know how far that gets you..mind you that's not including things like swimming lessons, dance, soccer, et al. Just my two cents, as usual...

-a

I'm sorry sublimelysensual, but your CPA is wrong. For further clarification of the deduction requirements for a non-custodial parent who does not have 50% custody or more, I've included the IRS language that must be included in the court order/divorce decree below...

1. The noncustodial parent can claim child as a dependent without regard to any condition (such as payment of support).
2. The other parent will not claim the child as a dependent.
3. The years for which the claim is released.

If you use Form 8332, the custodial parent's signature is required by the IRS.

I'm simply citing my personal experience as a non-custodial parent who has claimed the deduction for my child from 2002-2004. After I was awarded joint custody (50-50), the necessity for Form 8332 ended as I was no longer the "non-custodial parent" and exercised "substantially equal custody". I called and received confirmation of this from the IRS Tax Helpline in 2005.

Finally, again this is not legal, tax or other legally-binding advice, just language from IRS forms and my personal experience.

(in reply to sublimelysensual)

Post #: 14

RE: Tax question-US federal - 6/29/2007 10:18:10 AM

QuietlySeeking

Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well absentia is a bitch because now precedence comes into effect and everything is pretty much cast in concrete. Back tracking is going to be an expensive row to hoe. He can try to pettition as someone else mentioned. Does he have a copy of the divorce decree? Does it specify about taxes? Could always send her a letter saying "its my turn" so do not file a claim, I am filing this year. (Then watch the shit hit the fan when the irs comes back at them for both filing).

The problem is that he had his chance to "handle business" and he was sleeping on his post. Tough to back track man. Petition is the only option that i can see. Pretty much at the mercy of the court with a dirty skirt.

Actually Real0ne, it would only come back on him. Unless he can prove that by court decree/divorce decree/IRS Form 8332 that she has forfeited the exemptions, he can be charged with (and easily convicted of) tax fraud.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 15

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Tax question-US federal

Page: [1]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078