A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill?

A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 10:06:19 AM)
As many of you may know for the 3rd time, the new Immigratation Bill has been defeated. Surprisingly not by Political Parties..Bush and Kennedy are pushing it and it appears they will try again to get it past. The reason again for this defeat is the lack of public support and "Grassroots" opposition to it. I saw a cartoon where voices came from the Congress saying "No Junkets, No Bribes, No Large Campain Donations, What are these Grassroots Groups think they are?" Some private watchdog groups state a growing gap between the public and the government. Is this Immigration Bill just a reflection of this gap? That what the publice wants is not what Government wants?

Real0ne -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 10:20:54 AM)
Sure and when that does not work they will sneak it through in bits and pieces buried within other bills! It certainly does show the separation between the people and the government and worse it shows that the government is "fighting" the people to get its way!! That is the same government that is supposed to be "OUR BITCH" is our enemy. This is no longer a happy marriage and what happens when marriages are no longer happy? Divorce! Please note quote below!

selfbnd411 -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 10:30:07 AM)
What makes you think the people don't want it. Every poll I saw (NY Times/CBS News, Washington Post) showed large majorities in support of the path to citizenship (66% in favor). The Republicans were pandering to their activist base. That's the 20% of the country that thinks we can win in Iraq and the 5% of the country that wants to invade Iran and North Korea.

popeye1250 -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 10:48:03 AM)
Nosathro, I think that's pretty well said. Our Congress hasn't been listening to The People lately and The People are starting to get pissed. They have, however been listening to special interest groups, big business and K street lobbyists who want to continue to break our laws by hiring cheap illegal alien labor. It's real simple, people want our laws enforced. It doesn't do any good to make laws then not enforce them only to make new laws that they have no intention of enforcing. The American People saw right through that! Bush and Kennedy tried the old bait and switch and it didn't work. They surely must think that the American People are stupid! And also, speaking for myself anyway, I got the impression that my govt. was trying to dictate to me instead of doing what I tell them to do. People need to understand that our government is not the "management", they're the hired help. The People of this country are the management. ASSHOLES like Ted Kennedy just don't get it. He said on the News the other day something to the effect; "What would "they" do, have a Gestapo go door to door and deport all these "immigrants?" He should choose his words more carefully as his father Joe Kennedy was a criminal Bootlegger and was recalled by FDR as Ambassador from England before WW2 for being a Nazi sympathizer! (Look it up, it's true!) And now that our government knows that more than 90% of Americans don't want amnesties for illegal aliens Kennedy wants to "bring it back"? I mean The People Broke the Senate phone system at 8:45 thursday morning with an absolutely overwhelming number of calls! Talk about a Senator who just doesn't fuckin' LISTEN! One thing I can see happening is that we're going to see a lot of new faces in the Senate in the next three elections! The people in Washington are supposed to listen to us, not us listen to them! The People are *pissed-off* about this whole mess and I think that's a good thing! I'm origionally from Massachusetts but I tell people I'm from New Hampshire because of that fat, mentally ill, pompous, wet-brained drunk! And that's exactly what he is! Hopefully he'll stroke out or flop from a heart attack. Here in S. Carolina we're going to shitcan Lindsey Graham as well. And hopefully Kerry, Gregg, Specter and a bunch of others will be out as well. And look at John "Amnesty" McCain, he's finished!

Alumbrado -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 11:08:03 AM)
The basic idea of guestworkers is supported by both parties, just as it has been for the last 80 years worth of such legislation...turning it into a wedge issue now is just grandstanding leading up to the next presidential election. At the end of the day, the career politicians and their cronies are going to continue to have the requisite number of underpaid workers, no matter where they come from.

cyberdude611 -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 11:40:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 What makes you think the people don't want it. Every poll I saw (NY Times/CBS News, Washington Post) showed large majorities in support of the path to citizenship (66% in favor). The Republicans were pandering to their activist base. That's the 20% of the country that thinks we can win in Iraq and the 5% of the country that wants to invade Iran and North Korea. The New York Times poll was too broad. It asked if Americans favored giving a path of citizenship to those here illegally. 66% said yes but that can mean many different things. 10 years in prison could be part of that path that Americans have in mind. The poll is just too broad. When Gallup did a poll, it found only 32% of Americans favored this particular bill. 48% were against it. 82% of Americans favored more border enforcement and even the New York Times poll agreed with the enforcement issue. My words to Bush, Kennedy, and the supporters of this bill....BRING IT ON! You can bring that bill up as many times as you want and the people will continue to shut it down. The people simply do not trust that the government is serious about border enforcement. And after the failure of the 1986 bill, the people have every reason to be skeptical. If the government was serious about border security, why doesn't Bush use emergency funds to secure the border right now? Then he can go back to the people and prove to them that the government will secure the border. The President does not need a new bill to do that. He can do that right now. Perhaps then there will be more support for this bill. But that won't happen because this president is a stubborn fool and an elitist that has no intention of securing the southern border. President Bush and the Senate need to understand that they cannot override the will of the people in order to pad the pockets of special interests or the bottom lines of corporations. Passing this bill would create two classes of citizenship. And will only ensure that corporations always have that consistent flow of slave labor. What part of NO does this government not understand when it comes to Comprehensive reform that they have tried on several occasions to simply railroad through ignoring the typical democratic process and shutting off debate. This bill recieved no committee hearings. It was trying to be pushed through the senate on a procedural manuever that has never been attempted in this fashion in American history. Not a single Senator has read the bill in its entirety. On this premise alone, the bill should be defeated. And tell me pleasse, selfbnd, do you agree with Preisdent Bush when he said that the only way we can have a secure border is with a guest worker program? Does this president truely believe the American people are that dumb to not see his true intention here? He wants to bail out the corporations. That's all this is about. It's not about those poor, hard-working Mexicans that thrive to one day realize the American dream. You think that is what Bush cares about? You think that is what Microsoft, Walmart, Dell, or IBM think about? Yes our immigration system is broken. But the way the government wants to fix it is not to the benefit of Mexican immigrants or the American people. The government is trying to protect corporate profits.

Real0ne -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 3:32:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 What makes you think the people don't want it. Every poll I saw (NY Times/CBS News, Washington Post) showed large majorities in support of the path to citizenship (66% in favor). The Republicans were pandering to their activist base. That's the 20% of the country that thinks we can win in Iraq and the 5% of the country that wants to invade Iran and North Korea. Have you checked your fax redial when trying to fax your senators and ocngressmen on the subject? takes 2 days just to get a fax out.

cyberdude611 -> RE: A larger issue then the Immigratation Bill? (6/30/2007 4:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 What makes you think the people don't want it. Every poll I saw (NY Times/CBS News, Washington Post) showed large majorities in support of the path to citizenship (66% in favor). The Republicans were pandering to their activist base. That's the 20% of the country that thinks we can win in Iraq and the 5% of the country that wants to invade Iran and North Korea. Have you checked your fax redial when trying to fax your senators and ocngressmen on the subject? takes 2 days just to get a fax out. Just before this past Thursday's cloture vote, the phone system at the capital crashed because the volume of calls reached some of the highest levels ever recorded. And according to Senators and their aides, the calls were running about 90% against passing the bill. We have a representative government that is for the people, by the people. We are not an oligarchy. We are not a dictatorship. When the people spoke up telling their representatives to kill a bill they do not want, the Senate wisely did so. Selfbnd, look at that NYT poll again. Nearly 80% of Americans want that southern border secured. It is not just some finge right-wing rednecks. The American people very much believe that allowing those people to cross over by the numbers they do is a violation of our national sovereignty. 1.2 million illegal aliens enter the US every year just from Mexico. And the vast majority of American citizens (liberal, conservative, white, black, and even most hispanics) have said that enough is enough. Secure the border now! And this bill would NOT secure the border. Sure it calls for a border fence but only for 300-some miles of a 2,000+ mile border. Sure it calls for the hiring of more border patrol. But the policies remain unchanged. Remember the drug dealer that shot at the two border guards? They shot the illegal in the ass and now the border guards are in prison for 10 years. Remember the Tennessee national guardsmen that got a medal because they did what the White House wanted and retreated when confronted with armed illegals? And you want me to think adding more border patrol will solve the problem? Sorry, but I will support any form of immigration reform or amnesty or pathway to citizenship until the federal government gets serious about this problem and secures the border. It's that simple. Once the border is secure, then we can talk about reform.

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