To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective

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kyraofMists -> To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 11:45:05 AM)
There is another thread about feeling taken advantage of and I did not want to derail the discussion of a slave’s personal struggles with my thoughts that were spawned by the original question. I think the phrase “to take advantage of” is an interesting concept to consider. For one, the phrase does not reflect that something negative is occurring. I regularly take advantages of sales and stock up on certain necessities. I take advantage of my employee’s knowledge and skill in their jobs and give them the freedom to manage their day to day workload. There are many ways in which you can take advantage of something or someone and it have very positive benefits. On the other hand, the phrase can have a very negative connotation as well. I know that as a slave in my relationship I have a very different perspective of when I am being taken advantage of in a negative way than I did as a girlfriend in my past relationships. As a slave, I expect to be taken advantage of; I expect to be used in a way that benefits him and that I will receive benefits at his pleasure. As a girlfriend, I expected my pleasure to have equal importance within the relationship as his pleasure. I expected to get as much benefit out of him as he got out of me. In my current relationship, I would think I was being unfairly taken advantage of if what was happening was harmful to my well-being. In my past relationship, I would think I was unfairly taken advantage of if there was an imbalance between his and my pleasure over a period of time. What are your thoughts on being taken advantage of? Do you see it as something positive and negative? Knight's Kyra

Grlwithboy -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 11:47:13 AM)
To me the phrase "take advantage of" in relationships implies duping or bait-and-switch - person thinks something is going to happen and something else is foisted off on them. I like the straight up ring of "use" which can also connote the same, I guess, but you know what you're in for if I explain that I am going to use you and how.

sublimelysensual -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 12:23:23 PM)
I would definitely agree with you, kyra, as i often seem to do. For me, the difference in a relationship is the fact of whether you knowingly assent to being taken advantage of, or if it was something you never agreed to. My ex frequently took advantage. Now,the mindset that I have does have a certain appreciation for that, but not when the person doing it doesn't appreciate what you're doing for them. I see that as the biggest difference..when I'm submitting to Someone, allowing myself to be taken advantage of, I know the Dom is well aware that I've given that control over to Him, and that He appreciates it. Doesn't have to be spoken, don't need ego strokes, but I know He appreciates it. That makes all the difference in the world to me.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 12:38:29 PM)
Ok, my ever-so-important opinion snort Emotions and situations that have negative connotations have those because many people have not enforced their boundaries in a healthy way (note: I'm not talking about violations such as rape). They are expecting the other person to automatically do this FOR them. No one can do this for you. However, these situations, like being taken advantage of, all of a sudden can become positives when we take responsiblity for our own mental health and happiness. For example: the person who is stuck in the victim archetype. For these people, everything is always the other's fault. Someone who is working in the light of the victim archetype can use it to tell when they are about to have a boundary crossed and stand of for that boundary. Same kind of thing with being taken advantage of or being a sex toy or being a trophy wife, etc. etc. In a nutshell: when things are how they are out of responsible, conscious CHOICE, they can be very healthy. When things are bad due to not taking responsiblity for your choices or actions, they can be devastating. Most things can be either good or bad, depending on how you deal with them. Master Fire

MagiksSlave -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 12:44:35 PM)
:) Very interesting and so very true, there is takeing advantage and then there is takeing advantage. What you said about sales and knowlage really got me thinking about my own predicament and how fast takeing advantage of resorses (in my case him takeing advantage of a slaves want and need to serve) in the good way can so easily turn to be takeing advantage in a bad way, which is what happend to me. And you posting this here now has really helped me to see that this is what was really happening and that it wasnt ment to be takeing advantage of in a harmfull way. Any one ever tell you you are a smart Lady [:)][:)][:)][:)] Magik's slave

AquaticSub -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 1:01:43 PM)
I suppose it depends on how you view it. I don't really see him as taking advantage of me because it's something that I give him. Then again, one could say that a friend took advantage of the fact that I have a big SUV today while I helped her move, even though I was more than happy to help.

charmdpetKeira -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 1:27:33 PM)
quote: What are your thoughts on being taken advantage of? Taking advantage of something, and taking advantage of someone; are two different things. My neighbor has a pool and has offered to let me use said pool, being considerate of my neighbor and only asking to use the pool when it is convenient for them, is taking advantage of the pool; showing up at my neighbors pool at times that are inconvenient for my neighbor, is taking advantage of my neighbor. When I was still in a D/s relationship, there came a time when I was asking if I were being taken advantage of; I am still not sure of the answer, but I do know the relationship had become harmful to me. At that point, that was all that really mattered. Sincerely, k

KnightofMists -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 2:25:20 PM)
As I explained to Kyra, There is taking advantage of someone/something that doesn't diminish the value of someone/something in the process. Then, there is taking advantage of someone/something that dimishes the value of the person/thing you taking advantage of.

MadRabbit -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 3:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists What are your thoughts on being taken advantage of? Do you see it as something positive and negative? Knight's Kyra As far as being a dominant, this is an issue that comes down to my own benevolence and responsibility towards my slave. In a relationship where I am creating the contingency of "No Willful Disobedience", then in a sense, I have the authority and the ability to do whatever I want or please with my slave. But just because I have this authority and ability doesnt mean I should do whatever I want or please (a concept that some people dont seem to grasp very well). As such, I am guided by ethical questions that determine whether I am being responsible or taking advantage of my slave's inability to say "No". An example, my first girl and I lived in seperate cities, thus requiring one of us to travel. Now I could have ordered her to be the one to drive to my city and come and see me every single time and in her desire to please, she would have been more than willing to do it without consideration to the consequences. However, I realized her money was tight and the expenses from the trips would undoubtly put her in more of a bad fiancial situation. So in the end, we alternated on who made the drive. Would having her come and see me everytime have made my life easier? Would it have been a great service to me? Sure. But it would have been a service that would have improved my life at the cost of her own...and therefore, to me at least, I was taking advantage of her. If what I am doing or requiring doesnt harm or cause a diminishment in the slave's life, then I dont consider it to be "taking advantage of" but rather simply exercising my privilege as the dominant.

catize -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 5:29:36 PM)
“Taking advantage” when it is a vibrant and interactive exchange will reap rewards for all concerned; the problem occurs when people get lazy and stop working on the relationship.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (6/30/2007 7:55:02 PM)
It’s not like I hang her until her cerebellum can no longer tell which way is up or something. I, also, don’t force feed her Cheese Puffs until she goes into a hyperglycemic crisis. In any case, I can still play hard with her for all you new folks logging on to CM to hear about how we make naked women grovel. I mean I can humiliate and make her beg in a way she would never dream of in vanilla life, but the truth is that it’s a balance of having the needs of both met and at the end having the sub feel good about herself due to the respect given. Remember CM voyeurs, vanilla people will make you grovel and could not care less how you feel later. If I’m careful, I can have my sadistic needs met and the sub can have her submissive needs met, yet she feels cared for and respected and all is good. If you can both find that magical connection and talk honestly and intimately with each other without the dramatics it may work. This isn’t Ultimate Challenge Fighting. It's high class stuff.

becca333 -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 12:53:40 AM)
So long as both people are happy, it's fine. If one person is angry and resentful, the relationship needs work.

taintedgypsy -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 12:58:25 AM)
I am becoming a strong believer in the workings of personal responsibility ... "if you lay down and behave like a door mat you can not blame someone for wiping their feet on you", however if you get off on having someones feet wiped on you and you go into this as a concenting adult, you are going to feel pleasure in the end and not at all like an old door mat. For me I am looking at the point of view that when someone takes advantage of you in a negative way, you must look at how much responsibility is your own before blaming others ... look at how it happened and look at if you did anything to invite it/allow it, find ways to prevent it from happening again and move on if possible. just my thoughts and probably not terribly coherrant lol

MadRabbit -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 4:58:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: taintedgypsy I am becoming a strong believer in the workings of personal responsibility ... "if you lay down and behave like a door mat you can not blame someone for wiping their feet on you", however if you get off on having someones feet wiped on you and you go into this as a concenting adult, you are going to feel pleasure in the end and not at all like an old door mat. The problem I have with this is its really a matter of perspective between "Laying down and behaving like a door mat" and a relationship that centers around "No Willful Disobedience." The success of that kind of relationship begins with the benevolence of the person giving the orders and then followed by the personal responsibility of the person obeying. If the dominant gave no orders that diminished aspects of the slave's life, then the slave wont have to use their personal responsibility to say "No.".

LaTigresse -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 5:23:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam Ok, my ever-so-important opinion snort Emotions and situations that have negative connotations have those because many people have not enforced their boundaries in a healthy way (note: I'm not talking about violations such as rape). They are expecting the other person to automatically do this FOR them. No one can do this for you. However, these situations, like being taken advantage of, all of a sudden can become positives when we take responsiblity for our own mental health and happiness. For example: the person who is stuck in the victim archetype. For these people, everything is always the other's fault. Someone who is working in the light of the victim archetype can use it to tell when they are about to have a boundary crossed and stand of for that boundary. Same kind of thing with being taken advantage of or being a sex toy or being a trophy wife, etc. etc. In a nutshell: when things are how they are out of responsible, conscious CHOICE, they can be very healthy. When things are bad due to not taking responsiblity for your choices or actions, they can be devastating. Most things can be either good or bad, depending on how you deal with them. Master Fire I think this explains my thoughts and feelings perfectly. It is all about consent and intent.

velvetears -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 5:47:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit As such, I am guided by ethical questions that determine whether I am being responsible or taking advantage of my slave's inability to say "No". i think ethical intent is important when considering how the slave is going to feel about certain tasks and services. A master has in his hands someone who wants to live up to his standards and expectations, she wants to be found pleasing and obey and if that master isn't very ethical i can see where it would be very easy for him to use such a submissive with no regard for her wellbeing. quote: MadRabbit But it would have been a service that would have improved my life at the cost of her own...and therefore, to me at least, I was taking advantage of her. If what I am doing or requiring doesnt harm or cause a diminishment in the slave's life, then I dont consider it to be "taking advantage of" but rather simply exercising my privilege as the dominant. i think MR nailed it when he said this. A master requiring something of his slave that will benefit himself at the cost of some kind of detrimental diminishment of her life and wellbeing is taking advantage of her.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 8:58:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists As I explained to Kyra, There is taking advantage of someone/something that doesn't diminish the value of someone/something in the process. Then, there is taking advantage of someone/something that dimishes the value of the person/thing you taking advantage of. I think this best fits my idea of the difference between bartering in a relationship and selling yourself. Bartering is good; you get an acceptable trade. Selling yourself is emotional prostitution and it never feels good. (I'd even argue that sex workers who like their jobs feel like they get a good barter rather than feeling like they sell themselves out.) I'm not sure if any of that makes sense...haven't had breakfast (or a shower or meds...ewwwww). Master Fire

thetammyjo -> RE: To Take Advantage Of - A different perspective (7/1/2007 9:06:53 AM)
I get a gut negative reaction to "take advantage of". I use my slave, I don't take advantage of him because of that gut negative reaction.

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