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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 10:33:21 PM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		Wow, "domiguy", your cultural sensitivity and extreme reluctance to judge and engage in prejudicial activity has just been demonstrated by your cunning summation of my personality as "loathing and distrustful of others"...can't say you spoke with wisdom on that one, my friend. But, you did nail the second part of your assumption on the head: loving "whitey." Guilty as charged. I do love "whitey." My father is "whitey", as is my mother. But obviously I'm ignorant. Instruct me, "blackie". Educate me. Fill me up with your wisdom, blackie. Why is my heritage-love offensive, and yours innocent?

Before you answer that, let me sanitize your most potent weapon. No longer is it acceptable to say that modern whites cannot avoid wearing the shoe because it fits so well. In other words, it is invalid to say "Well, the reason white pride is so offensive is because it's the slogan for so many racist groups." The reason this is invalid is because it is grossly unfair to reserve the right to be proud while denying that same right to others. Not only is it unfair, it points to a basic ineptness on the part of those who hold this view. The nature of forgiveness is a cessation of blame. The very act of blaming insures future hostilities. So, the black community can't spout their usual guff of peace, diversity, knowledge, etc., while simultaneously harboring hostilities. If the black community wants true peace, they must make an effort at true forgiveness. Of course, this is where the problem lies.

How to attain this true forgiveness and thus ensure true equality? Well, one great way would be to admit the equal amount of blame which Africa shares in the slave game, while at the same time admitting the equal amount of praise which white America deserves for black liberation and civil rights. There can never be any demand without supply, and if you think Eurpeans marched right into the heart of Africa and stole slaves, you'd be very mistaken. Slaves were supplied by Africans. Also, slavemongering and genocide is at the heart of African politics. Just ask the Jews and the Rwandans.

Second, another great way to achieve the proper mindset is to realize that, without the slave trade, black folks would be stuck farming yams in Zimbabwe right now. Think about it. Where would you be, if not for the slave trade?

Think on these things, and you'll receive the proper persepective.

You seem like a fun-loving, nice enough guy, and what's more, I don't know you personally. But if I did, we would probably get along.

But your response to my post irresponsibly lumped me and another person into the same category as the KKK and Hitler, and in doing so you unwittingly affirmed my point. I appreciate that. And the point is this: Anytime a white person speaks sensibly and cogently about reverse racism, he or she will be summarily compared to a mass murderer, thus rendering them ineffective.

This hostile tactic is not only even now wearing thin, it is evidence of a desperately excessive and uncalled-for racial pride on the part of minority groups. What sense does it make to be really really proud of your race, anyway? I mean, you can't treat that as a personal accomplishment. You didn't have anything to do with being black or Mexican or whatever.

Enjoy the weapon now while you can. It won't work much longer.

To summarize, everything I've said so far points to my belief that Black America is saying something potent and sotto voce. They're saying, "White America, we dislike you."

Question: What happens when you accuse a white person of being a racist?
Answer: They shit their britches, and act as if you accused their mother of pederasty. Then they jump through hoops to prove they're not racists, and the funny thing is that, by engaging in said hoop-jumping, they often engage in accidental racism.

Question: What happens when white people are made to hate themselves?
Answer: They suddenly become one-sixteenth Indian, eight-thirtieths black, one fourth Macedonian, etc.

(in reply to CrimsonMoan)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 10:44:29 PM   
Masternslave07


Posts: 203
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Eruditus, I have seldom read a more right on and intelligent post as the one you posted here. Consequently, you will get plenty of negative knee-jerk reactions to it. The victim mentality and the blame whitey mentality is fiercely protected by the people still living in the past, and I imagine you got their knees jerking overtime. Facts and the truth tend to do that.
And before I get accused as well of being a white racist, I am an American of Mexican descent.


< Message edited by Masternslave07 -- 7/8/2007 10:47:13 PM >

_____________________________

You can lead a horse to water, but not a cow.

(in reply to Eruditus)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 10:50:38 PM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, I'm waiting for the flood. I'm ready for it. And the sad thing is, I really didn't write it with any real ill-will directed toward minorities--I was just trying to protect my own kind and heal some of the effects of a few decades' worth of propaganda. I got involved with this thread because I really do feel that we all should be treated the way we deserve to be treated. And I hate to see white people hating themselves for something they didn't do, especially when that self-hatred has been imposed as a means for advancement. There's no justice in that.

Which raises the question: Are justice and truth the same thing? And if not, which is more important?

(in reply to Masternslave07)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 10:57:12 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		I just read part of this thread...and I am not replying to you Eruditus.  At least not at this moment anyway.  I am half Chippewa and half  Ukrainian (White). 

I actually know what it is to be discriminated against...believe it or not.  Back in the 60s and early 70s in certain parts of this country, it was not good to be identified as Native American or Indian.  I was sent to live with my dad's sister and her family when I was young.  It was pretty much a wasp community,  meaning  as white as you can get it basically.  When I was little I definitely looked different than everyone else.  When I got to be in my teens...things changed a bit.  I started to pass and I went with it. 

But prior to this, I had a rough time of it.  In elementary school, once people found out, they wouldn't drink out of the same fountain as me.   They let war whoops down the hall...a few of them waited for me after school to harass me about being Native.  There are even worse and more painful stories I just won't share online with strangers.  In time it eventually all passed, but for the time it happened, it was hellish.  My aunt even had a parent ask her if I was Korean.  Come on...lol.  Talk about ridiculous.  But to look at me now...I really do pass and I actually could pass for a number of races.  In Detroit, Arabic party store owners would speak to me in their language.  Here in Houston people speak Spanish.

Anyway, I think racial pride is good.  We all should be proud of who we are.  I know I am proud of both sides of my family.  But it took a while for me to get to that point.  There is a definite schism within my native family, and they hated the fact that my dad was white.  They still do, but times are changing.  I personally believe that if minorities do not like whites, that is just fine.  There is a definite mistrust from even my family on that side, and I don't necessarily blame them for that either....things being what they are or were.  But like I did say...things are changing on a daily basis and minority groups are growing anyway.  If one is caucasian...be proud of who you are.  I identify as Ukrainain on my dad's side of the family, but I grew up in that ethnic heritage as well.  Kind of tried to do my best to straddle the line and be proud of both.

< Message edited by texancutie -- 7/8/2007 10:58:38 PM >

(in reply to Eruditus)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:13:42 PM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		I'm sorry you got picked on Texancutie. I bet the idiots who picked on you are regretting it now. People are just cruel, without even bothering to throw issues of racism into the mix.

And isn't it funny how misleading that word is? "Racism"...it doesn't mean today what it meant one hundred years ago, when racism meant a belief in the ideas of eugenics. Today, "racism" means that you are on one side or the other of a cultural war--and has little if anything to do with actual eugenics, at least on a widespread scale. This is an important issue, because if we're going to solve a problem as complicated as cultural competition, then we need to use precise terms. Any sort of imprecision in verbiage can be used as a weapon.

I must respectfully disagree with you, while at the same time contradicting myself. After all that blather about the fairness of allowing white folks to be proud of their race, I must confess my true belief that racial pride is silly in all its forms. The only reason I advocate such benign racial pride in whites is to counteract decades of a very purposeful and concerted effort to subordinate white self-esteem.

But as far as mistaking you for this, that, the other...that's probably in your favor, as ethnic ambiguity is perhaps one of the biggest assets a person can have in modern America.

For me, the bottom line is that you should be proud of your accomplishments--things you did with your own hands. We have no control over our race. Why be proud of it? Racial pride is the foundation of racial narcissism, and racial narcissism leads to strife.

(in reply to texancutie)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:19:12 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati

I own cows, I love them, we even name them...normally people names, our current bull is named fred. I love watching the horror in people's eyes when they are over at our house and open the freezer to get ice for a drink and there are all these paper wrapped packages with names written on them in oil pencil "sally" "lucy" "tina" "george".

just because im a submissive doesnt mean I cant be sadistic in my own way.


Hoping you meant sadistic to people. Animals can't really consent.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to GhitaAmati)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:22:34 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrimsonMoan

Then again i did the same this to a friend when she asked what kind of meat was in this stir fry one day and i said Bambi.


Wonder how the kids at elementary school would deal with that.
Big sign in the cafeteria. "Today's special: Bambi".

Reminds me of nephandi's variation on "Rudolph the Raindeer". It doesn't translate perfectly, but it starts out with what comes across as "Rudolph is great in soup"...


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to CrimsonMoan)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:24:34 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: instynctive

There's such a shortage of onmivores in today's "PC" society.  ;-)


I guess Meiwes is an exception to the rule.

And that Japanese guy has climbed further up the food chain than the rest of us.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to instynctive)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:30:18 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		It's not just a simple matter of being picked on....you honestly have to experience it for yourself...which is pretty much impossible right now.  I think most people absolutely have no clue about this.

Racial pride is not silly, because in fact they tried to wipe out our culture.  My grandmother was forced into Haskill Indian School, she was lucky because she was light skinned.  The other girls who were not...had a really hard go of it.  So...suffice it to say....I am very proud to be of a decent blood quantum...Native wise.  I am proud of my family and who I am.  It is true we have no control over what we are born into, but I am extremely proud of my ancestors....meaning my mom and my grandparents and so on.

I had to edit because it was a forced thing, not voluntary.  She was taken away from her family and not allowed back until she was almost 17.


< Message edited by texancutie -- 7/8/2007 11:34:36 PM >

(in reply to Eruditus)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/8/2007 11:48:54 PM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Also I remember the things said about our fishing rights when I lived up north.  They used to say...Spear a pregnant squaw, save a walleye.

A walleye is a northern fish.....

(in reply to Eruditus)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:01:13 AM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		You're assuming that I haven't experienced discrimination for myself, and you're assuming this because I'm white. Probably most people think that their tribe's situation is unique, and that others have no clue. But this is exactly the sort of insular, clannish thinking that gets us into trouble to begin with.

Obviously what happened to your grandmother was wrong. Only a fool would try to argue otherwise. But the danger in bringing something like that up is that it threatens to start a sort of discrimination pissing contest--where two people bandy racism-suffering-stories back and forth like a birdie over a badminton net. I've mixed me some metaphors here, but I think you get the gist.

Personally, I'm all for segregation in schools, but not on racial grounds. I have no problems separating all the maladjusted cretins from the kids who really want to learn. We'll call our hypothetical school for cretins "Prison Lite."

We can agree, however, that if racial pride is allowable for one tribe, it should be allowable for all--whites included. Whites should be able to confess their pride--and call it that--without having to worry about being compared to Klansmen or Hitlers. I'm not arguing with you on that point, because you said as much yourself.

But still, I think the ideal is to not be proud of your race at all, and on this matter we must agree to disagree.

And I would be remiss if I didn't point out a flaw in your reasoning, or at least ask for some clarification. You mentioned being "very proud to be of a decent blood quantum"...and I think this raises a fair question. Is there such a thing as an indecent blood quantum? White people get crucified if they even hint of purity in their racial stock. Isn't such a bias against miscegenation (race-mixing)  improper in minority groups as well? If it is racist for whites to be concerned with the purity of their gene pool, isn't it racist for minorities to exhibit the same concern for their gene pools?

It's important to bring such double standards to light and to deal with them, otherwise they threaten the foundation of civil rights for minorities.

(in reply to texancutie)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:12:37 AM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Yes there is such a thing as a non qualifying blood quantum...and that is up for the tribes themselves to decide.  There should be a cutoff.  Which is as it should be.  I would have no idea what Whites in general would be a member of..other than the fairly innocuous white clan?.  Native Americans don't decide this on a general basis....we only do it tribally.  Which really means, by family.  I for one, am tired of people that claim to be Native and have no idea or proof of what it really means.  It is kind of like just reading a story and deciding to be something one is not.  Claiming to be of descent is fine...and that is totally different than claiming to be a member of a specific tribe.

If people choose to not mix...well it is really up to the individuals involved.  We don't do lotteries based on racial couplings  yet....lol.

(in reply to Eruditus)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:27:20 AM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		The whole issue of tribal membership interests me, for several reasons. First, being a typical white guy, I never had that sense of belonging and racial unity which minorities have. Ironically, you only find any sort of racial harmony among the fringe groups--which makes them attractive to prospective recruits, I imagine. If it weren't frowned upon for whites to like each other solely on the basis of their whiteness, as other minority groupmembers like each other solely on the basis of their minority-ness, then maybe racist fringe groups would have a hard time finding new recruits. So, issues of belonging interest me, and maybe that hearkens back to some ancient racial memories of my own, when Scottish and Irish peoples lived in clans and tribes that were probably not unlike Native American tribes.

I can understand why establishing a blood quantum is important to Native Americans. They have a limited amount of resources and many people who need them. They can't afford to dole out precious resources to someone who doesn't qualify. That makes sense.

Personally, I feel more than a little contempt for whites (or blacks, for that matter) who crow and trumpet about a negligible percentage of Native American blood. In the case of whites it's probably guilt; in that of blacks, probably a desire to give their coveted oppressed status a keener, more poignant bouquet.

This gives me an opportunity to voice another insight of mine. Being oppressed is very "in" these days. I get the feeling that many members of oppressed races hoard over their oppressed history like an heirloom.

< Message edited by Eruditus -- 7/9/2007 12:29:11 AM >

(in reply to texancutie)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:36:13 AM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Blood quantum is a matter of pride actually....not economics.

(in reply to Eruditus)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:48:04 AM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		I have a question for you, and please do your best to answer honestly, because it's the sort of question that is very easy to fudge on.

What would you think of me if we met on a city bus and during the course of conversation I said, "I'm one hundred percent white, and damned proud!"?

Just curious to know what your reaction would be. My guess is that you would move to another seat on the bus or perhaps write me off as a skinhead although I have a head full of hair.

Now, I'm open to the possibility that you wouldn't act that way but my first assumption would be that you would. But for some reason your pride in your blood quantum doesn't affect me that way. It doesn't make me feel the revulsion that most other people would feel if I expressed the same sentiment. That's a very interesting phenomenon.

(in reply to texancutie)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:51:55 AM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Wrong assumption then.  I would be very curious as to what you had to say...as long as  you were not blatantly offensive.

(in reply to Eruditus)
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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:55:17 AM   
texancutie


Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		I mean...telling me that and not knowing what I am...I would of course be wondering if you were a nutter...lol.  In that case I would try to distance myself from someone I thought was unstable.  But anyone would do the same.  I don't go around spouting off Red Power or anything.  Well mainly because we are not really red anyway...lol.  Just kidding of course...and I am off to bed anyway.  

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RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 12:57:22 AM   
Eruditus


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/9/2004
Status: offline 		Well, you've made good sense all night, so thank you for that. And thank you for discussing the issue intelligently. Goodnight to you, and best wishes.

(in reply to texancutie)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 2:30:11 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Ok...Blackie will try to "enlighten" you, whitey.

quote:

Eruditis

The nature of forgiveness is a cessation of blame. The very act of blaming insures future hostilities.


quote:

Eruditis

Well, one great way would be to admit the equal amount of blame which Africa shares in the slave game, while at the same time admitting the equal amount of praise which white America deserves for black liberation and civil rights.


Do you know the definition of this word? Equal.  Yes, there were blacks who profited from the slave trade...That makes all blacks equally culpable?....Idiotic reasoning.  Here you are trying to blame blacks equally for the cause of slavery in this country.

Oh, this is a fun one.....Whites deserve praise for black liberation and civil rights that they just freely handed over without a fight or loss of life?....What history books have you been reading?  Thank God, whitey just handed over these rights...There was never any arguments or violence...Never was the National Guard called out....Yes, some whites participated and some even lost their lives defending the God given rights of blacks...The losses were hardly equal.

quote:

 

Second, another great way to achieve the proper mindset is to realize that, without the slave trade, black folks would be stuck farming yams in Zimbabwe right now. Think about it. Where would you be, if not for the slave trade?

Unfucking believable!  Thank you whitey, for killing black children, men and women..for uprooting a culture...Thank you. For centuries of strife. Countless murders, rapes and other atrocities. So blacks can eat at McDonalds today.  Thank you!  You are blessed.

quote:

  
You seem like a fun-loving, nice enough guy, and what's more, I don't know you personally. But if I did, we would probably get along.


First smart thing you have said.....I am a fun loving nice enough guy....And no, we would not get "along."

quote:

  
Wow, "domiguy", your cultural sensitivity and extreme reluctance to judge and engage in prejudicial activity has just been demonstrated by your cunning summation of my personality as "loathing and distrustful of others"...can't say you spoke with wisdom on that one, my friend. But, you did nail the second part of your assumption on the head: loving "whitey." Guilty as charged. I do love "whitey." My father is "whitey", as is my mother


quote:

  
This hostile tactic is not only even now wearing thin, it is evidence of a desperately excessive and uncalled-for racial pride on the part of minority groups. What sense does it make to be really really proud of your race, anyway? I mean, you can't treat that as a personal accomplishment. You didn't have anything to do with being black or Mexican or whatever.


I like white people...Fuck, in reality, most of my friends are white. White people are the majority. White people have the money. White people have the majority of the power....Everything that any ethnic group was "given" was fought for. The standards that other ethnicities face in America is one from typically a European view point when it comes to such topics as  beauty, religion, history, language...and on and on and fucking on and on. Americans are tolerant...More tolerant than most. When minorities feel like they are being force fed "White American values and thoughts" this is where pride of your ethnic heritage is important....Do whites see "beauty" in Native Americans or Mexicans, Asians or Blacks? From aesthetics to culture?  So even today when a white person speaks of white pride or power...It smacks of hypocrisy and overkill. It does sound ugly.

The times they are a changin'. Whites will no longer be in the majority in this country around 2042...They will still control the assets so they will still control the power. So little will change....Maybe a few more politicians of a darker hue...But little change will probably occur.

quote:

  
You're assuming that I haven't experienced discrimination for myself, and you're assuming this because I'm white. Probably most people think that their tribe's situation is unique, and that others have no clue. But this is exactly the sort of insular, clannish thinking that gets us into trouble to begin with.


Please tell me of how you have horribly been discriminated against?....I await your reply....It should be fascinating...I await with tissue in hand to weep at your story.

I don't like you...It's not because you are white...I think you are ugly inside.  You continually whine about others showing their pride and say there is no need for it...And then you counter by repeatedly stating that you are down with white pride....There is something more here than meets the eye.

There are others who feel the same a you...Seek them out. Maybe Masternslave07 won't stay attached.  You would be cute together.

Take care all.

The end.

_____________________________



(in reply to Eruditus)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Not For The Easily Offended - 7/9/2007 7:07:08 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You never answered my question I posted before, is "whitey" a racist term?

Ever been the only majority in a minority neighborhood, where everyone blames you for everything that your supposed ancestors did?

Everyone is biased, to some degree or another, try admitting you are biased, try admitting there are differences, try admitting that differences are not automatically a bad thing, try looking at progress, rather than wallow in negativity.


Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 260
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