RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:30:46 AM)

It doh mek no difference to me wheer yum frum in America. Yo all tok funny to me.
E




SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:33:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It doh mek no difference to me wheer yum frum in America. Yo all tok funny to me.
E


lmfaooooooooo




SubinMaine -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:49:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It doh mek no difference to me wheer yum frum in America. Yo all tok funny to me.
E


*smile* no doubt! LOL!




caitlyn -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 5:35:38 AM)

It's OK to call you 'whitey' because white people have never been oppressed, in all of history. [8|]
 
On topic though ... I mostly hate crime, when I get caught. Otherwise, makes no matter to me.




CollarMaster1 -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 5:39:18 AM)

blacks were not the only people enslaved...thru history..virtually all people have been slaves at one time or another..blacks are merely the last...they need to get over it ..




SubinMaine -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 5:44:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It's OK to call you 'whitey' because white people have never been oppressed, in all of history. [8|]
 


i'm sure the above is tongue-in-cheek or, at the very least, sarcastic.

If the law says it is illegal to be discriminate due to race...then it should be illegal across the board. One group of people should not be valued more than the other.  Nor should they be afforded "tailored" rights.  This is what the African American population fought for in the 60's...EQUAL rights...EQUAL does not mean heavily favored, it means treated the same.




instynctive -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 6:22:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I moved here to Myrtle Beach, SC from New Hampshire 3 years ago and I love it here!
I find the "rebels" here very friendly.


I've been to MB... I certainly wouldn't consider that "The South".. lol

I'm talking the land of cotton, banjos and questionable relationships between siblings, not tourist towns or ... what was that called.. the "Redneck Riviera".. lol




instynctive -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 6:24:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It doh mek no difference to me wheer yum frum in America. Yo all tok funny to me.
E


The English have probably the most refined sense of humor... as do the "penal colonies"...

LOL

Thanks for the laugh, Lady E!




Azriel308 -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 8:36:19 AM)

Your right, crime do cover more then just assualt and murder.  I was just using those two for examples since they are the ones most people associate with.  There is no reason to make other laws to cover some group or another, other to make the justice system a bigger mess then it is, and give someone a warm fuzzy since they supported a way to fight crime.  There where laws in place long before this garbage about hate crimes was around.  If you broke the law, you where punished.  Same crime, same punishment.  It is people like you who make people loose respect for others.  Specially when you think just becuase you look different you deserve special laws to protect you.  I used to work with some very good blacks, and we had many long discussions over the years on race and laws etc.  They agreed, there should be no difference on how someone is sentenced.  Least of all based on something like skin color or relgion etc.  The lady with the scales wears a blind fold for a reason, so she can't see things like that.   As for you calling others whitey and naive, get over yourself.  You and others like you are the reason I hated getting out of bed in the morning and going to work.  Always whining over being "picked on" or "profiled".  Never had anything to do with the fact they had just commited a crime or their prints where found someplace one had been committed.  Odd as well, they hated the other gang yet they where never sentenced under a hate crime law when they did something against that gang or group of people.  Must only work one way.  So much for equal rights.




zerosignal -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 9:24:44 AM)

In my view, the central cause of racial double-standards enshrined in the law is, ironically, the misguided benevolence of sheltered white liberals.  Having lived and worked in some fairly "diverse" environments in my day, my experience has been that most minorities disapprove of the legal double-standards designed to benefit them such as "hate crime" laws or affirmative action.  The biggest proponents of both of those policies are privileged white liberals who have never had a meaningful interaction with a member of a minority social group in their lives. 

I'm going to take a small bit of rhetorical license at this point and make some generalized assumptions of my own with respect to these white liberals.  From my experiences with them, they seem plagued with "white guilt" over their social station and economic advantages, and commit themselves to crusading for equality to assauge those feelings.  But, like many members of every social group, these white liberals put unwavering faith in simple concepts to avoid having to struggle with more complex realities.  To wit, problems of socioeconomic disparity and historical (not present) institutionalized racism become a nebulous, indistinct conspiracy that lurks around every corner and must be stamped out at all costs.

Confirmation bias leads these white liberals to latch onto the small scraps of evidence in support of their worldview whenever they can find some, such as violent crimes against minority groups.  To liberals struggling with white guilt, these crimes stop being isolated incidents of violence or disorder, and become the very symbol of inequality in this country.  Naturally, such travesties need to be stamped out right away and thus we are left with laws that treat a crime of assault very differently, depending on what social groups the perpetrator and the victim belong to.

Of course, this fits perfectly with the worldview of liberals grappling with white guilt; they are already predisposed to seeing minorities as victims and whites as oppressors.  Such a simplification of social problems leads to the easy solution of giving the "victim" social group extra protections under the law.  And so, to at least answer the question posed in the title, I see hate crimes not as thought policing, but as institutionalizing a distorted view of society.




Alumbrado -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 9:42:24 AM)

quote:

...not as thought policing, but as institutionalizing a distorted view of society.


Po-tay-to, puh-tah-to...




seeksfemslave -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 11:34:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
It's OK to call you 'whitey' because white people have never been oppressed, in all of history. [8|]
 On topic though ... I mostly hate crime, when I get caught. Otherwise, makes no matter to me.


Have a read about the social conditions that "blue collar" types had to live thru' in 1850's UK. Same in the US I believe.
At a time when  the Industrial Revolution had resulted in bigger and "better" factories.
If thats not oppression then I dont know what it is.

Just read Zerosignal's post 110. Absolutely spot on and totally accurate IMO. In the UK these self same White Liberals hold rough white blue collar ie working class types in total contempt and seem completely unaware of their own double standards.




Sinergy -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 11:41:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It's OK to call you 'whitey' because white people have never been oppressed, in all of history. [8|]
 


Might want to go research the "white niggers of north america" or the Nazi purge of Jewish people or perhaps the Roman oppression of the Picts and Celts or perhaps the Serbian/Croatian/etc struggles before you make these infinitive statements.

So profoundly incorrect I hope you meant it tongue in cheek.

Sinergy




caitlyn -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 1:22:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
... I hope you meant it tongue in cheek.


Ya think? [;)]




AquaticSub -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 1:42:38 PM)

~Fast Reply~

Everyone has the chance to be victim of a hate crime. Hate is not reserved soley for non-white skin, women and homosexuals. People have died for being Irish, Jewish, Catholic, Italian, Russian... Whatever.

I believe that murder is murder. However, it also sickens me that a person could get a lighter sentence for spraying hateful language about a religion, enthic group, or sexuality and not be punished more then whatever you get for tagging a building. Hate crime laws came into place so that juries wouldn't be as likely to go "He just killed a nigger/fag/jew/spick. They don't really matter." and I think they still have a place. Just not the same one. Murder is murder.




CrimsonMoan -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 2:51:21 PM)

Ok been paying attention to this off and on, but heres my take on things hate crime laws can be a good and a bad thing and i feel they should be applied only when the motivation behind said crime is revealed. Some shit just happens and then some shit happens because there is extra motivation. Race and sexual preference play a big part in alot of the shit goes down. A guy gets beaten up outside of a bar, the guy behind it gets charged with assualt. Now if the victim had been gay would it be automatically a hate crime? Not in my book. Now if he got beaten up BECAUSE he was gay then yeah it becomes a hate crime. In legal terms its a motivating factor. But then i believe the door swings both ways.

A black teenager is on trial for the group assualt of a fellow white student follwing an incident in which after several black student sat under a tree where a majority oh white student spend lunch a noose was foudn haning from a branch. The ones repsonsible were found and dealt with. the victim in this case had NO connection to the incident other than being white. He was jumped from behind by a group of pissed of black youth, no is there a hate crime charge attached to this? No but it has become assualt with a deadly weapon because the victim was kicked and stomped on. If this was hte reverse the hate crome charge would have been there. Is this Right? Is this Fair? Fuck no, but thats the way of things




domiguy -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:24:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Azriel308

Your right, crime do cover more then just assualt and murder.  I was just using those two for examples since they are the ones most people associate with.  There is no reason to make other laws to cover some group or another, other to make the justice system a bigger mess then it is, and give someone a warm fuzzy since they supported a way to fight crime.  There where laws in place long before this garbage about hate crimes was around.  If you broke the law, you where punished.  Same crime, same punishment.  It is people like you who make people loose respect for others.  Specially when you think just becuase you look different you deserve special laws to protect you.  I used to work with some very good blacks, and we had many long discussions over the years on race and laws etc.  They agreed, there should be no difference on how someone is sentenced.  Least of all based on something like skin color or relgion etc.  The lady with the scales wears a blind fold for a reason, so she can't see things like that.   As for you calling others whitey and naive, get over yourself.  You and others like you are the reason I hated getting out of bed in the morning and going to work.  Always whining over being "picked on" or "profiled".  Never had anything to do with the fact they had just committed a crime or their prints where found someplace one had been committed.  Odd as well, they hated the other gang yet they where never sentenced under a hate crime law when they did something against that gang or group of people.  Must only work one way.  So much for equal rights.


Very interesting and incredibly well written if I made add.....Wow!!!

Well let me tell you a thing or two Mr snippity...I have worked with "some very good whites" and we would have long discussions on race and their inability to dance and why they smelled like wet dogs.....But anywhoo back on topic....I have never worked with any "good whites"...I lied.

I believe the topic is hate crimes so let's see how our friend conducts an argument......Hmmm...Because of people like me he hated going to work....Yadda yadda yadda..He has worked with some "good blacks"...I'm sure they were ecstatic to receive you approval....Coming from such a lazy guy who doesn't like to get up and go to work.
I've always wined about getting picked on and profiled.....This is a thread about hate crimes???? Right?  ....Ummm ...Ooooh this thought is kind of special....People like me complain about my prints being found where a crime has been committed....And he continues by saying that people, like me, who get into gang fights should be charged with a hate crime.
 
That was fun!.....Cool beans!....ok Azriel...First off, you need to read the definition as to what a hate crime actually encompasses...Please read up on a subject before you post so that we can avoid these uncomfortable situations where your lack of knowledge on the particular subject that you are addressing does not cast you in a particularly positive light....And ya' aint gonna get no pussy in that kind of lighting....it's not applicable to the guy who shoots his neighbor that he can't stand....They have a beef...dog shit in his yard....Or he banged his wife and daughter...See, he may hate his neighbor but it doesn't meet the definition of a hate crime.

read up....Come back and post....It was lovely speaking with you....I'm sure the majority of "whiteys" feel exactly the same as you.....God I hope not!!!




Invictus754 -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:39:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

It's OK to call you 'whitey' because white people have never been oppressed, in all of history. [8|]


You are not at all familiar with Roman history, are you?  They enslaved the WHITE people who inhabited Europe as they expanded the empire.  White people were in chains 2000 years ago.




CrimsonMoan -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:45:18 PM)

just about every race and culture has been on the bottom of the totem pole




domiguy -> RE: HATE CRIMES = thought policing? (7/4/2007 4:58:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zerosignal

In my view, the central cause of racial double-standards enshrined in the law is, ironically, the misguided benevolence of sheltered white liberals.  Having lived and worked in some fairly "diverse" environments in my day, my experience has been that most minorities disapprove of the legal double-standards designed to benefit them such as "hate crime" laws or affirmative action.  The biggest proponents of both of those policies are privileged white liberals who have never had a meaningful interaction with a member of a minority social group in their lives. 

I'm going to take a small bit of rhetorical license at this point and make some generalized assumptions of my own with respect to these white liberals.  From my experiences with them, they seem plagued with "white guilt" over their social station and economic advantages, and commit themselves to crusading for equality to assauge those feelings.  But, like many members of every social group, these white liberals put unwavering faith in simple concepts to avoid having to struggle with more complex realities.  To wit, problems of socioeconomic disparity and historical (not present) institutionalized racism become a nebulous, indistinct conspiracy that lurks around every corner and must be stamped out at all costs.

Confirmation bias leads these white liberals to latch onto the small scraps of evidence in support of their worldview whenever they can find some, such as violent crimes against minority groups.  To liberals struggling with white guilt, these crimes stop being isolated incidents of violence or disorder, and become the very symbol of inequality in this country.  Naturally, such travesties need to be stamped out right away and thus we are left with laws that treat a crime of assault very differently, depending on what social groups the perpetrator and the victim belong to.

Of course, this fits perfectly with the worldview of liberals grappling with white guilt; they are already predisposed to seeing minorities as victims and whites as oppressors.  Such a simplification of social problems leads to the easy solution of giving the "victim" social group extra protections under the law.  And so, to at least answer the question posed in the title, I see hate crimes not as thought policing, but as institutionalizing a distorted view of society.



Since you are an attorney...Is this the argument that you would make in a courtroom defending a white person accused of a hate crime?...That the only reason we could possibly be here is because of "white guilt" and "sheltered white liberals.?" 

To quote Belushi "Seven years of college down the drain!"...Are you saying that there are never any crimes that are based sole on race and sexual preference or so few that only white liberals could dare notice?  Maybe you should google the numbers, Mr attorney, or have one of your clerks do it for you.

One of the aspects of America is that we are supposed to be tolerant...you know huddled masses and all...So when a crime is committed that is based solely on race...sexual preference..etc....it becomes all the more heinous...And should be dealt with accordingly.

A hate crime is a hate crime...blacks have been charged with hate crimes against whites....the difference is that you will never hear about it in the media because it doesn't wag the dog.

When a crime is committed for no apparent motive other than race...We live in a country that simply will not tolerate such actions and we make it clear by installing the language of hate crimes.

Nothing is perfect....I'm sure there are cases where a person was tried for a hate crime that "hate" was not a motivation for the incident.  

Out of curiosity, my uber conservative attorney friend, what exactly are the more "complex realities" of a hate crime.

You can bill me by the hour.




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