Protocol question for submissives....

Protocol question for submissives.... (Full Version)

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phoenix52 -> Protocol question for submissives.... (6/14/2005 11:27:13 PM)
i have a question.... there is a Domme in our local community that has mentioned a few times she wants to play with me. i most definitely do not want to play with her, i don't have a problem with her personally, i just don't like the way she plays. My Sir has told me it's my decision about whether or not to play with her, so i'm thinking she'll come to me to ask? (She basically said she wanted to this last weekend but was tied up with something else...) So my question is, what is the best way to say, thanks but no thanks? i don't want to offend, but i do NOT want to scene with her. Should i make up an excuse? Sir told her he wasn't sure she could play down to my level and she assured Him that she could, so i don't really want to tell her that (although it's the truth). She'll just assure me, yeah, sure she can.... well, i don't want to be the test dummy to find out. Any suggestions? Like i said, i'm on good terms with this person, and i want to stay that way....

suberic -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/14/2005 11:43:19 PM)
Only consideration from myself in the same perspective would be: be honest. Be polite, be firm and be honest. You don't want her to play you. Say so. Don't let her think you have no problem with it. If your Sir is a good one, he's willing to take the heat in this if you absolutely cannot face this lady. If this is the case, tell HIM, let him say no and take the heat for it. You are his property, it's ultimately his decision. If I don't want someone playing with my Magic: The Gathering cards, I say so, and don't make up an excuse. I simply say no. That should take care of it. Everything else is playing headgames and that has no place in this. Just my thoughts.

BeachMystress -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 4:40:51 AM)
Make sure your Dom is very aware that you do not want to play with this woman. Tell him why and ask him what he feels is the best course of action. Good Luck. Or you could tell her you are honored by her request, but don't feel comfortable playing with her at this point. If she asks why, tell her personal reasons that you don't feel comfortable discussing.

subrob1967 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 5:07:26 AM)
Your Master shold be the one who tells her you cannot play with her, and he should respect your wishes. Having said that, I like the other posters seem to believe that it's the Dom/me's job to respect the wishes of their submissive, and to protect them from other Dom/me's, and potential harm.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 5:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Your Master shold be the one who tells her you cannot play with her, and he should respect your wishes. Having said that, I like the other posters seem to believe that it's the Dom/me's job to respect the wishes of their submissive, and to protect them from other Dom/me's, and potential harm. Hmmm so I can tell the Owner I really don't wish to do any cleaning this weekend and he should respect that? Good deal there. Anyway, there's no PROTECTING needing to be done here. Someone will likely ask you to play with them, that's not dangerous. Nipple clamps are more dangerous than that. First off, allow the female dom to directly ask you, if she doesn't bring it up directly, then you can easily sidestep it. If she eventually DOES bring it up directly, just say "You're so great, but I don't think our play styles are really compatible and I really like just being your friend." Or any variation on that theme. Learning how to say NO is an important skill for any adult and everyone needs to be comfortable with it. The dom can't always be the knight in shining protective armor against any other dom who hey, might actually find the sub attractive. If you don't feel comfortable saying "no" then you really aren't being free to say "yes." In our world where consent is paramount, this is very important.

perfection20005 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 7:08:04 AM)
I agree with telling her the truth about not wanting to scene with her. If she has a problem after that, I would tell her to go to your Sir and talk with him about it then. He already knows that you don't want to, and has said it is your decision, so he should be able to tell her the truth if you can't. perfection

subrob1967 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 7:14:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 Hmmm so I can tell the Owner I really don't wish to do any cleaning this weekend and he should respect that? Good deal there. Anyway, there's no PROTECTING needing to be done here. Someone will likely ask you to play with them, that's not dangerous. Nipple clamps are more dangerous than that. First off, allow the female dom to directly ask you, if she doesn't bring it up directly, then you can easily sidestep it. If she eventually DOES bring it up directly, just say "You're so great, but I don't think our play styles are really compatible and I really like just being your friend." Or any variation on that theme. Learning how to say NO is an important skill for any adult and everyone needs to be comfortable with it. The dom can't always be the knight in shining protective armor against any other dom who hey, might actually find the sub attractive. If you don't feel comfortable saying "no" then you really aren't being free to say "yes." In our world where consent is paramount, this is very important. Yes your Master should respect your wishes, and there should be communication. Some days you just don't feel subby, or are too ill to clean, cook, service...etc, and if your Master can't respect that you're only human, then I hope you and he are happy, and you get what you need out of the relationship. If a submissive is intimidated by a Dom/me, or scared of a Dom/me, then the Master/Mistress does need to protect his submissive...period. Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 7:23:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob196 Yes your Master should respect your wishes, and there should be communication. Some days you just don't feel subby, or are too ill to clean, cook, service...etc, and if your Master can't respect that you're only human, then I hope you and he are happy, and you get what you need out of the relationship. Being too sick is far different thing than WISHING for something. I might be "only human" but I'm the human that agreed to transfer all authority to him, and I stick to that. quote: If a submissive is intimidated by a Dom/me, or scared of a Dom/me, then the Master/Mistress does need to protect his submissive...period. Well there goes all that great stuff about submissives being strong people able to take care of themselves. Nice while it lasted. quote: Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about. It's not a RED FLAG, for crying out loud. Sometimes we just don't LIKE people, sometimes we just don't have CHEMISTRY, sometimes we just aren't a good fit. It doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with anyone. A dominant wants to play with a sub and the sub isn't interested. What on EARTH is red flaggish about that? The problem the sub has has nothing to do with the dominant, it's to do with not feeling comfortable saying no gracefully and not feeling comfortable that the dom will be comfortable playing at a lower intensity level than they are used to. The sub should feel flattered, try and extricate themselves as gracefully from the situation as possible and move on with their lives as the (supposedly) strong, respectful humans they are.

subrob1967 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 7:35:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 quote: ORIGINAL: subrob196 Yes your Master should respect your wishes, and there should be communication. Some days you just don't feel subby, or are too ill to clean, cook, service...etc, and if your Master can't respect that you're only human, then I hope you and he are happy, and you get what you need out of the relationship. Being too sick is far different thing than WISHING for something. I might be "only human" but I'm the human that agreed to transfer all authority to him, and I stick to that. quote: If a submissive is intimidated by a Dom/me, or scared of a Dom/me, then the Master/Mistress does need to protect his submissive...period. Well there goes all that great stuff about submissives being strong people able to take care of themselves. Nice while it lasted. quote: Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about. It's not a RED FLAG, for crying out loud. Sometimes we just don't LIKE people, sometimes we just don't have CHEMISTRY, sometimes we just aren't a good fit. It doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with anyone. A dominant wants to play with a sub and the sub isn't interested. What on EARTH is red flaggish about that? The problem the sub has has nothing to do with the dominant, it's to do with not feeling comfortable saying no gracefully and not feeling comfortable that the dom will be comfortable playing at a lower intensity level than they are used to. The sub should feel flattered, try and extricate themselves as gracefully from the situation as possible and move on with their lives as the (supposedly) strong, respectful humans they are. Where oh where in this great BDSM resource book does it say we can't be strong, AND have our Master/Mistress protect us?" I must have missed that chapter. Like I said, if you like being a doormat to your Master, and do what he says, without question, or communication, more power to you, I wish you a happy life. I on the other hand need imput with my Mistress's, and would be very unhappy if they didn't take my needs, and wishes into consideration. It takes two (or more if your poly) to make a relationship work. quote: i just don't like the way she plays. Theres OBVIOUSLY something about the way the Domme plays that the poster is uncomfortable with, and why you don't see this as a red flag, is beyond me. A red flag can mean more than just danger, you know. The poster clearly states that the she has nothing against the Domme personally, but is uncomfortable with a potential invitation to play, style the Dommes uses, and asked advice on how to tell the Domme, thanks but no thanks.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 7:57:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about. Which they did discuss. She didn't say she doesn't like the way the dom plays, she says she doesn't believe the dom would be comfortable playing a lower intensity level (or that the dom isn't telling the truth when she said she would be fine playing at a lower intensity level). quote: Where oh where in this great BDSM resource book does it say we can't be strong, AND have our Master/Mistress protect us?" I must have missed that chapter. Well if you are strong, why do you NEED protection? Need being your word. If a dom WANTS to be the knight in armor, more power to them. A lot of doms want their subs capable and able to deal with normal life issues on their own. In this particular case, the sub's dom very clearly stated that it would be up to the sub to decide this on her own. It is now the subs responsibility to follow through on those orders. quote: Like I said, if you like being a doormat to your Master, and do what he says, without question, or communication, more power to you, I wish you a happy life. Hmm you're making leaps here. Your post said that the Owner should follow my WISHES. Then you brought up being SICK and NEEDS. Now you're suddenly leaping from "not respecting wishes" to "having absolutely no questions or communication." I hope you realize the illogical leaps you are making. Of course the Owner and I have communication, and he does make sure my needs are taken care of (mostly by telling me to go take care of them as an adult), but to suggest he should "respect my wishes" completely goes against who I am as his slave. I hope you can see the difference here. But also- yes I love being his doormat :) quote: Theres OBVIOUSLY something about the way the Domme plays that the poster is uncomfortable with, and why you don't see this as a red flag, is beyond me. A red flag can mean more than just danger, you know. Um I thought that's EXACTLY what "red flag" meant. How else does it mean to you? There are things we don't like about people, there are things we aren't compatible with in other people, but that doesn't mean we suddenly have red flags waving, it means we're getting to know people and how to relate to them. quote: The poster clearly states that the she has nothing against the Domme personally, but is uncomfortable with a potential invitation to play, style the Dommes uses, and asked advice on how to tell the Domme, thanks but no thanks. Which she got. Your advice is that the subs dom should be protective and take the subs wishes into consideration. We already know that the dom decided that the sub is the one who can make the call and will be the one to take care of the situation.

terah -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 8:38:04 AM)
Tell her thank you for her interest however you are not seeking a Domme of her level of playing. Straight to the point. Let her imagination run amok about her skills and you didn't offend her.[;)]

SweetDommes -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 9:50:21 AM)
Ok, my advice to the OP is: if you have already talked with your Dom about this, and he has said that it is your decision, then make it and stick to it. You have already made it, and you know that you are going to take heat for it, but such is life. You need to talk to your Dom again, though, and explain to him that you don't wish to offend the Domme, but that you are quite sure that you are not interested in being her "plaything" even for a short while, and when you tell her that, you would like him to be there for backup. Do not have this conversation with her alone. If she starts heading your way, make sure that your Dom is there and aware of the fact that she is coming over. Sometimes we all need a little backup even if they stay backup and don't actually become involved. As for the rest of the ... discussion ... that has ensued: red flags are warning signs that things could get dangerous, not that they already are - they can be for physical reasons, mental reasons, and/or emotional reasons, and to me, this is a major mental/emotional red flag. The OP does indeed state that she does not like the way that the Domme plays, and she seems to be in quite the mental and emotional state over it. She is in a dilema and her Dom should be able to sense that and discuss with her to help her solve it (I'm not talking "knight in shining armor" here, I'm just talking being a good, loving partner that is sensitive to one's moods/needs). There is also nothing wrong with someone who CAN take care of him/herself wanting someone else to take care of them once in awhile. Rob is quite capable of taking care of himself, but there have been a few times where Holly and I have stepped in and taken over. To us, an attack such as he was under at those times was also an attack on us, and we weren't going to stand for it.

fourpeas -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 10:05:37 AM)
Just be honest and if you need more assistance ask for it.

perverseangelic -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 11:06:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 Hmmm so I can tell the Owner I really don't wish to do any cleaning this weekend and he should respect that? Good deal there. Anyway, there's no PROTECTING needing to be done here. Someone will likely ask you to play with them, that's not dangerous. Nipple clamps are more dangerous than that. First off, allow the female dom to directly ask you, if she doesn't bring it up directly, then you can easily sidestep it. If she eventually DOES bring it up directly, just say "You're so great, but I don't think our play styles are really compatible and I really like just being your friend." Or any variation on that theme. Learning how to say NO is an important skill for any adult and everyone needs to be comfortable with it. The dom can't always be the knight in shining protective armor against any other dom who hey, might actually find the sub attractive. If you don't feel comfortable saying "no" then you really aren't being free to say "yes." In our world where consent is paramount, this is very important. Yes your Master should respect your wishes, and there should be communication. Some days you just don't feel subby, or are too ill to clean, cook, service...etc, and if your Master can't respect that you're only human, then I hope you and he are happy, and you get what you need out of the relationship. I gotta say, I have some trouble with this. My relationship doesn't change based on whether or not I "feel subby." Regardles, I've chosen to do what my partner says. While he's open to my comments (especially when I'm having a very bad mental day) it ultimatly comes down to 'does he want me to do this." If the answer is yes, I do it. I know my dynamic isn't all dynamics, but I dont' quite understand "one's owner should respect one's wishes about not wanting to do something routine." While I agree that I have the right and responsibility to refuse to do something that will damage me, I also think I have the obligation to obey in things that -won't-. For example, say I just plain don't feel like accepting the punishment I've earned. I cannot just say "well, I dont' feel like that." The same thing applies to other aspects of service. Yeah, the partner is aware of how I feel, and is concerned about that. We've also got a power dynamic that demands I do what he wants -despite- not feeling like it. Sure, I get sick days, but if we're both sick together, you damn well better believe I'm hiding it and bringing him chicken soup. So...I guess what I'm saying is that while realtionships =are= different, I wouldn't be able to advise someoen to tell their partner "no, I don't want to do that, i don't feel like it." unless there were some serious health or well-being problems there. Otherwise, well, you signed on to serve. Service isn't always fun. quote: If a submissive is intimidated by a Dom/me, or scared of a Dom/me, then the Master/Mistress does need to protect his submissive...period. Likewise, if a dominant person is intimindated, it is the job of the submissive person to protect the dominant one. Like Emerald said, we're strong people, however, I don't see this one as "requring protection" Rather, I see it as having trouble standing up to certain individuals. I think that in a relationship if one person is having trouble doing something, the other should help out, and that this crosses power lines. quote: Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about. ... Theres OBVIOUSLY something about the way the Domme plays that the poster is uncomfortable with, and why you don't see this as a red flag, is beyond me. A red flag can mean more than just danger, you know. The poster clearly states that the she has nothing against the Domme personally, but is uncomfortable with a potential invitation to play, style the Dommes uses, and asked advice on how to tell the Domme, thanks but no thanks. I have to disagree here. I just plain don't like how some people play, nothing to do with saftey or red flags or danger. Just about how I feel about that person. For example. There's a person I am friends with who I've asked my partner if it's ok I don't play with. I really like the guy as a person. Why don't I want to playwith him? I don't like the spead with which he plays. That is, he goes -way- too slow. He takes a long time to get to the degree of "harshness" that I enjoy, and then a longer time to do anything "fun" with it. I'd prefer not to spend time playing with that person, because unless it's making my partner feel good, I'm not getting anything out of it. No red flags, just dislike of personal style. Someone one dislikes isn't always dangerous. Maybe the OP just doesn't like this woman because she uses purple floggers instead of black. Dislike isn't always sinister. quote: Like I said, if you like being a doormat to your Master, and do what he says, without question, or communication, more power to you, I wish you a happy life. I on the other hand need imput with my Mistress's, and would be very unhappy if they didn't take my needs, and wishes into consideration. It takes two (or more if your poly) to make a relationship work. I got lost at the part where doing why my partner says without question means doing it without communication. We talk a -lot- about what's going on between us and what we both are doing. However, when he expects me to do something, he expects me to do it. Period. The nice part is that we've been together so long and so well that he knows what he can tell me to do without question. I think you can tell that Emerald is -far- from "doormat" she simply has the kind of raport with her owner that allows her to just obey. Perhaps that kind of obdience =looks= blind, because an observer can't see the communication that goes on behind the scenes. I know it might appear that way with my partner sometimes, because our discussions go on behind closed doors. In public, I do what he wants. Someone who obeys, all the time, doesn't lack communication. I'd venture to say that in some cases the communication is -better- because a huge degree of trust has been developed. My partner knows what I need and trusts me to -tell- him when there's a problem. Because he trusts me to communicate, he can tell me to do what he wants, when he wants, knowing that I will approach him at the proper time and place with what's wrong or right.

SweetDommes -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 11:29:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic quote: Theres obviously a reason the poster doesn't want to play with the Domme, and she states she doesn't like the way the Domme plays. Thats a red flag to me, and an issue her and her Master need to talk about. ... Theres OBVIOUSLY something about the way the Domme plays that the poster is uncomfortable with, and why you don't see this as a red flag, is beyond me. A red flag can mean more than just danger, you know. The poster clearly states that the she has nothing against the Domme personally, but is uncomfortable with a potential invitation to play, style the Dommes uses, and asked advice on how to tell the Domme, thanks but no thanks. I have to disagree here. I just plain don't like how some people play, nothing to do with saftey or red flags or danger. Just about how I feel about that person. For example. There's a person I am friends with who I've asked my partner if it's ok I don't play with. I really like the guy as a person. Why don't I want to playwith him? I don't like the spead with which he plays. That is, he goes -way- too slow. He takes a long time to get to the degree of "harshness" that I enjoy, and then a longer time to do anything "fun" with it. I'd prefer not to spend time playing with that person, because unless it's making my partner feel good, I'm not getting anything out of it. No red flags, just dislike of personal style. Someone one dislikes isn't always dangerous. Maybe the OP just doesn't like this woman because she uses purple floggers instead of black. Dislike isn't always sinister. Actually, the OP discusses that she doesn't feel that the Domme in question can "play down to my level," suggesting that there could be some physical or mental danger to the OP. It is not left as vague as some of you are claiming. I definitely got some red flag/warning signs from the OP and while I don't agree with all of Rob's post, I am rather surprised that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that she DID say that she doesn't like the way the Domme plays, and she DID say that she doesn't think that the Domme could/would tone down the play to a level that the OP would be comfortable with. quote: ORIGINAL POST i have a question.... there is a Domme in our local community that has mentioned a few times she wants to play with me. i most definitely do not want to play with her, i don't have a problem with her personally, i just don't like the way she plays. My Sir has told me it's my decision about whether or not to play with her, so i'm thinking she'll come to me to ask? (She basically said she wanted to this last weekend but was tied up with something else...) So my question is, what is the best way to say, thanks but no thanks? i don't want to offend, but i do NOT want to scene with her. Should i make up an excuse? *Sir told her he wasn't sure she could play down to my level and she assured Him that she could, so i don't really want to tell her that (although it's the truth).* She'll just assure me, yeah, sure she can.... well, i don't want to be the test dummy to find out. Any suggestions? Like i said, i'm on good terms with this person, and i want to stay that way....

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 11:36:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes I definitely got some red flag/warning signs from the OP and while I don't agree with all of Rob's post, I am rather surprised that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that she DID say that she doesn't like the way the Domme plays, and she DID say that she doesn't think that the Domme could/would tone down the play to a level that the OP would be comfortable with. I agree with that, I just don't think that "not liking how someone plays" and "not thinking they will play the way you want/feel comfy with" is a red flag. It's a personal judgement based on YOUR OWN play style and says nothing wrong or to be worried about on the part of the person you are judging. To me that would be like saying you don't want to go to a restaurant because they don't cook food the way you like it and don't follow your order instructions and calling that a red flag. It's not a red flag, it's just not the right person to play with.

SweetDommes -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 11:41:45 AM)
I see this as a totally different situation from going to a restaurant- especially with the phrasing that the OP used. In play, yeah, this could mean that she does bondage too tight (not a huge issue as long as someone is watching) or she puts the nipple clamps too tight or something that might cause some bruising, but not likely to do any serious damage - but it could also mean that she flogs people to the point of collapse (and not that happy, sub-space, orgasming collapse), or she canes them until they end up pissing blood for a week, or any number of other things that extreme people sometimes do. It could also mean that the Domme plays drunk, or ... well, it could be just about anything. Because we don't know the exact reasons that she doesn't like the style of play, and what it is that she thinks that Domme needs to tone/bring down, we can't say that it ISN'T a red flag ... and I would much rather err on the side of caution. Your restaurant comparison just isn't accurate - a restaurant isn't likely to do serious damage to you before you can leave - a Dom/me whom you aren't comfortable with very well could.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 11:58:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes Your restaurant comparison just isn't accurate - a restaurant isn't likely to do serious damage to you before you can leave - a Dom/me whom you aren't comfortable with very well could. No- a dominant who is careless or inexperienced could. Just because YOU aren't comfortable with them doesn't mean they aren't a great top.

perverseangelic -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 1:00:13 PM)
I did missread the OP, but I mostly stand by what I said. I don't think that one's dissinterest in playing with someone makes that someone a bad top. I can understand how someone who is not comfortable with "intense" play would not want to play with someone who plays at that level. I don't think it reflects negativly on the "intense" player, but does say something very possitive about the person who doesn't want to play. I think that it's good to be aware of what you want and what you can handle, that way the person you're playing with doesn't have to worry you'll...sue them or something. So, yeah, I missread, it's more serious than I read. However, I think that it still isn't a negativly reflection on the top. It just shows that the top and the OP wouldn't be a match, NOT that the top isn't a match for anyone.

phoenix52 -> RE: Protocol question for submissives.... (6/15/2005 6:44:52 PM)
i guess i should clarify.... i wanted advice about how to say no without offending, or hurting feelings. i imagine that Dom/mes are much like the rest of humanity in that they may not like rejection. Under no circumstances would i play with someone i was uncomfortable with "to be nice" (assuming Sir had not told me to...) i do not consider trying to avoid hurting someone's feelings a sign that i cannot make "adult decisions", i am not a "strong person", or anything like that, i happen to like this person on a personal level and i just don't want any bruised feelings. Maybe i'm worrying about it too much, i don't know. She generally has a hard time finding people to play with, just because she is such a heavy player. As i said, my Sir told me He would "leave this one up to me". If He told me to play with this person, i would do it, no questions asked. i have played with several other Dom/mes in our community, Sir is always there, keeping an eye on His property. As far as why i don't feel comfortable playing with this person, her play regularly causes gasps from those watching and she has said that she really enjoys this and tries to shock the "audience". i once volunteered for a demo with her and she made my nipple bleed just through impact and clamps. My Sir (and others) has had to leave the room while watching her do CBT because it was making Him sick. This is great for people who enjoy really, really heavy play, but i do not.

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