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Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 4:01:59 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		In my experiences with the local community in my home city and surrounding cities and with online message boards, I've come across a number of opinions people tend to take of other people. In fact, I have heard some of them so often that they have almost become BDSM cliches.

1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer
2. He/She is not really dominant
3. He/She is not really submissive
4. He/She is a wannabe
5. He/She is a fake and a poser.
6. He/She is a predator
7. He/She just wants sex
8. He/She is really a switch

So today, I am proposing a little exercise for the group. I would like everyone to take these one line judgements and provide an alternative perspective as to why someone would make such an opinion besides the most obvious reason that the person in question falls under the stereotype.

Let me start off to provide an example of what I mean.

1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer Perhaps the person making the opinion has some superficial view as to what BDSM is. Maybe there perspective has been obscured to think its about some code of honor, a formal social hierorachy, and traditions, instead of D/S, B/D and S/M. Is the person who ties his lover up with shoelaces somehow not a part of BDSM when compared to the man in leather who does it with suspension bondage?


2. He/She is not really dominant Well, perhaps the person making the opinion thinks dominance is about arrogance, hard-headedness, rudeness, and stubborness.

3. He/She is not really submissive Maybe the person in question told the other person "No"

4. He/She is a wannabe Perhaps they dont meet the person's self aprondizing super-Dom or super-slave standards.

5. He/She is a fake and a poser. Maybe the person in question is just new and falling into the same trap many Dominants did in the beginning...beleiving they had to take on some special persona like the Bitch Goddess rather than just simply be themselves.

6. He/She is a predator Maybe he is and just doesnt realize it.

7. He/She just wants sex It amazes me time and time again people who want sex get labeled as just wanting sex. I am very sexual person and a twisted perspective of an ex-girlfriend could very easily make a good case that all I wanted from them was just sex.

8. He/She is really a switch Perhaps the person making the opinion has a very neat and tidy black and white view of dominant, submissive, and switch.

So rather than jump on the bandwagon and the conclude the obvious regarding these opinions, I would like everyone to stretch their brains and think of a reason why the obvious might not be so very obvious.

I look forward to reading Domiguy's replies. I hope this thread isnt too serious and has a few humorous and lighthearted posts as well.

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 4:20:03 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		The most common one I have seen around various forums is the "she isn't really a submissive" which 9 times out of 10 translates to "she wasn't submissive to ME".... which of course if the girl in question hasn't submitted to the person making the comment then why should she be submissive to them? The subtext is all to often that the person making the claim that the girl isn't submissive is themself one of the 'kneel bitch brigade' who has some fantasy that simply because a girl lables herself as sub or slave and that they have stuck a lable saying "Dom" on thier chest, that the girl somehow owes THEM obedience.

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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 5:20:12 AM   
MissOchistic


Posts: 315
Joined: 4/30/2007
Status: offline


1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer: Perhaps the person who thinks this is speaking only of real time, and not online BDSM activities or relationships.
2. He/She is not really dominant: Perhaps they asked/told the Dominant to do something and the Dom courteousy complied.
3. He/She is not really submissive: Most probably they told the sub to do something and they less then courteously refused.
4. He/She is a wannabe: Never heard this said unless it was true....meaning literally that they weren't quite there yet but they wanted to be, they were new. The only way I can think of this meaning anything else is when it means a faker or poser, which I'll answer for below.
5. He/She is a fake and a poser: Perhaps the person in question is quite new to the scene and overconfident, so he seems to be faking it when really he just thinks he knows more than he does, and is genuine, if foolish.
6. He/She is a predator: Perhaps the labeler thinks they got screwed over by this Dom/sub when there was miscommunication.
7. He/She just wants sex: When sex is a big part of the relationship for them, or something they feel should start right away
8. He/She is really a switch: When they're new or for any reason unsure of themselves, or when there's one person specifically they will/have submit(ted) to.






_____________________________



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is more than two, but less than three."

"Submission is a potlatch."

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 5:34:06 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer
He/She turned up at a play party thinking people were going to sell tupperware.

2. He/She is not really dominant
He/She keeps saying 'please' when s/he gives orders.  And gives candy when people follow them.

3. He/She is not really submissive
S/He keeps saying, "Now, what's the magic word?  Say please."  whenever give an order.

4. He/She is a wannabe
S/He has a T-shirt saying "Uber Dom"  Printed in pink.  With butterflies.

5. He/She is a fake and a poser.
His/Her leather outfit is made out of black plastic bin liners.

6. He/She is a predator
S/He has dosed every drink on the bar with rohypnol.

7. He/She just wants sex
S/He introduces him/herself, "Hi, I'm just here for sex."

8. He/She is really a switch
S/He keeps forgetting if s/he's giving orders, or taking them.


(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 5:36:15 AM   
Park


Posts: 8
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
People make those sort of judgements because it makes themselves fel more part of the group they identify with. To boost thier own self esteem. It's human nature.
We're insane really, we want to be different, yet want to identify with a group. The BDSM community and many other fringe groups want to be the outsiders, yet don't feel truely confident in our roles unless we make other the outsiders.

(in reply to MissOchistic)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 6:41:19 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Park


We're insane really,


yep, and Becca i loved your post!

i always liked the idea that "its none of my buisness what people think of me"


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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 6:47:04 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

7. He/She just wants sex It amazes me time and time again people who want sex get labeled as just wanting sex. I am very sexual person and a twisted perspective of an ex-girlfriend could very easily make a good case that all I wanted from them was just sex.



He (via CM message) "Hello there. I like your profile. I believe we are looking for the same things. Can you tell me a little more about yourself?"

She (in reply): Well hello there. Your profile is nice too. I like what you said about (whatever). I love literature, the arts, kayaking, and travelling. Do you like literature? What sort? Do you like art? What kind? What's the fartherst you've traveled and what was your favorite trip?

He: Gives some answers and then says ... So. What are you wearing? I like black lace teddies the best. I bet you have great tits. What do you like doing with your tits? Do you have a webcam? When would you like to meet? I don't waste my time with posers. You know when we meet I'm going to put your on your knees.

~sideways glance~

Yeah. It's not all about sex.

It's ~mostly~ about sex, but not all. I stand corrected.

(I am not speaking of all Doms. Just the horny kind that don't seem to get it.)

< Message edited by slaveish -- 7/4/2007 6:48:44 AM >

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 6:51:29 AM   
heavenleigh


Posts: 14
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not going to hit them all, but a few anecdotes:

I'm submissive...  with some slight toppy tendancies.  I cannot begin to tell you how many men have contacted me, saying they are a Dom.  But the instant I admit that I have topped, they become all subbie-like, begging me to spank, whip, and otherwise Top them.  Those men are not Doms.  They may be switches, but they are not Doms.

My Master/Hubby spent quite some time playing online with a sub.  Until she told him that in real life, no woman likes to be spanked.  It's only for online fantasy, nobody does anything like this in RL.  She is not a sub.

I once had a so-called Dom IM me.  My profiles all state that I am married.  One of his first questions was whether I had kids.  Then he began asking very inappropriate questions about my daughter.  That man was a predator.

I have played with a Dom who has a favorite trick...  he does a full spread eagle bondage with sewing thread.  Then he begins to tease and torture the submissive, but all play stops as soon as any thread is broken.  I've played with several Doms, he is incredible. 

It's not the toys that makes a Dom or a sub.  It's not the talent with knots, or leatherwork, or the amount of batteries he/she goes thru in a month.  It's the mindset.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 7:31:54 AM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline 		Here is my take on MadRabbit's list of what posters might really be saying...

1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer  --This could be he/she is not into bdsm play but is seeking an authority based relationship, depending on how one dices up the acronym 'bdsm'.  Is it bd & sm or is it bd-D/s-sm?  Would that make it bD/sm then??   
2. He/She is not really dominant  There isn't any chemistry. 
3. He/She is not really submissive  He/She is NOT really submissive, but they have bought into the bottom/sub/slave = bad/tolerable/best mentality and are ashamed to admit they are a wonderful bottom who wants a long term relationship that is not authority based. 
4. He/She is a wannabe She/He is new and 'wants to become' accepted as [insert random label of choice here] 
5. He/She is a fake and a poser.  She/He is a politician??? 
6. He/She is a predator  I wasn't ready for a relationship and went into cyberspace screaming 'victim'. 
7. He/She just wants sex  I am ashamed to admit I want sex. 
8. He/She is really a switch.  I don't accept 'sexually submissive' as a valid life choice. 

This post is a mix of serious and humorous responses.  Sort them out as best you can.  All are only my opinion and I have no delusions as to what that is actually worth. 

*edited because my sheep wouldn't dance.    See what a good beating can do? 


< Message edited by amiciaN -- 7/4/2007 7:43:30 AM >

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I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 7:44:45 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I simply lump all those statements under the heading of "Sour Grapes"

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Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 7:47:35 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		He is not a Dominant.....IE, he never dom'd me. ::: Last month, we go to this play party in the next town up, and after hanging out for a few hours, my husbands ex wife shows up and throws a HUGE tantrum and storms out, after telling me that we are "lying" to all these people because my husband is in no way a "true" dom, she was married to him and she knows. He cant have been in the lifestyle long enough to be a true dom. (which is really funny because she didnt get into the lifestyle until after they divorced either) And we were compleatly honest when we got to the party that he was a novice and new to all this.

(in reply to amiciaN)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 8:26:30 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer

When I first entered the scene and started a group that was meant to be more elegant than the others, many said that about me.  I was more interested in food and candles than bdsm.

2. He/She is not really dominant

I wasn't really dominant when I started, domineering certainly, dominant during sex sure.  This is often something said about someone who is either more strict than or less strict.  Another occassion is when someone can't see the intensity of the power exchange because it is subtle but deeply felt rather than shallow and meant for all to see.


3. He/She is not really submissive

Years ago I bottomed to an officer of The Society of Janus as an educational experience.  I explained to her that I didn't like pain and wasn't submissive.  She was deeply upset afterwards that I wasn't really submissive to her and I had to give her aftercare.


4. He/She is a wannabe

San Francisco is run by and for the bottoms for the most part and so sensory play is what sets the men apart from the boys (at least according to them) and being very much a fluffy dom when I started, I was considered a wannabe by many.


6. He/She is a predator

Could be truth to that, my old name was Master_of_Pain not because I was a sadist but because I had torn out so many hearts.  I am a smooth talker with a great voice and I wasn't as responsible with that power as I should have been.  I almost always play on a first date and have had women have sex with me before they have even opened their eyes.


7. He/She just wants sex

Well Duh!


8. He/She is really a switch

Since my current partner is a domme who submits to me (quite beautifully I might add) but whom I allow to play a bit on me (those fucking wurtenburger wheels HURT on your cock!!) I am sure at some point someone is going to make that comment about me although I doubt they will do it in front of either of us.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 8:42:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i always liked the idea that "its none of my buisness what people think of me"



I loved this, Amy :)

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 10:09:57 AM   
neph


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: becca333

S/He has a T-shirt saying "Uber Dom"  Printed in pink.  With butterflies.



CafePress, here I come.  

(in reply to becca333)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/4/2007 8:51:05 PM   
Slavetrainer2007


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline 		To keep to MR's format:
1. He/She is not a "real" BDSMer : Perhaps the person in question  would not provide  references to the person making the statement.
2. He/She is not really dominant:The person in question doesnt act like doms the person making the statement  knows.
3. He/She is not really submissive :The person in question doesnt act "submissive enough" towards the person making the statement.
4. He/She is a wannabe :The person in question is a newb and is trying to fit in.
5. He/She is a fake and a poser. The person in question has a completely different style then  the person making the statement. Whats good for the goose isnt always good for the duck.
6. He/She is a predator : The person in question is deseperate or just  really outgoing.
7. He/She just wants sex : The person in question is alive.
8. He/She is really a switch : The person  making the statement is confused as to whether  the person in question is a top or bottom, so they are both.


_____________________________

Life is given, Everything else is earned.

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/5/2007 4:01:38 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
7. He/She just wants sex


He really does believe that all women are interested in naked photos of him and the size of his dick.

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=790885

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RE: Alternatives to Stereotypes - 7/5/2007 1:12:33 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Because I have zero interest in pain play I get told I'm not submissive. Not true, what I am not is a masochist. The corollary is that since The Man is equally uninterested in pain play, he obviously isn't dominant. Wrong  there too, what he isn't is a sadist.

Our power definition is D/s, our preferred play activity is bondage. You would be surprised by how many people insist that you can't have a power relationship if you aren't into s & m.

(in reply to wandersalone)
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