RE: communication

RE: communication (Full Version)

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kubens -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 7:45:02 PM)
Kubens had also been asking for a different kind of relationship. He wanted to be more like boyfriend and girlfriend and call me "sweetie" instead of "Mistress"--but still have the same kind of BDSM sexlife. I said no to these things but I felt it didn't sit well with him. But he claimed he still wanted me as a Domme. When i read this my heart sank a bit, i did not mind at all when Linda asked me not to call her "sweetie", and i love calling her Mistress. It may have seemed to her that it didn't set well with me, i did feel a bit embarrassed, but i honestly did not mind. i also want to make it clear that this has turned out to be a tremendous growing experience for me--i thank all of you for your comments. I always knew that D/s relationship requires more work for the Domme, but i didn't know what to do about it, now i'm beginning to realize why the sub needs to consider the wishes of the Domme, and needs to come up with compensations to help equalize things. kubens

slaveish -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 8:51:09 PM)
"Master" was a little embarrassing for me to use the first little while but it got to be normal because he would settle for nothing else. It will get easier, kubens. Good luck in your training.

MagiksSlave -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 8:55:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyOpinx quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I see a lot of red flags here but then again its just my thoughts! Magik's slave They say if it's gonna go bad--it's gonna go bad in isolation. That is why I told Kubens about the forum. I wanted him to have support. (His work schedule has not allowed him to go to any lifestyle events and make friends lately) But having it all hashed out here is gut-wrenching to me. Red flags? What kind? That he and I can't communicate? (That's obvious and being worked on) That he and I shouldn't be together? That he shouldn't be a sub? That I shouldn't be a Domme? What you've got here is a couple of humans trying to figure some stuff out. Maybe sending him to collarchat wasn't a good idea. But like I said I wanted him to have somewhere to go to ask questions or see other's experiences. I wasn't about to tell him what or what not to say--but the way this is unfolding ...it's stressful. And did everyone miss the post where Kubens mentions he respects me now for what I did because it was something he needed to learn?. I am trying very hard not to be defensive about the criticisms here, and I want to be open to learn from other people's wisdom. But it's harsh to be judged by strangers. Bright Blessings Linda WOW you are reading a LOT into what I wrote!!! i said nothing about him not beeing a sub or you not a Domme. I was simply speaking of the compatability issues that seem blareingly obviouse!!! And about judgeing.. well I know as well as anyone you bring your problems to the boards you are asking for others judgments its as simple as that, I dont know what you where expecting. It is very harsh beeing judged my strangers I know that but its what happens here, we all come with our bias and try the best to give advise based on the info that is handed to us. Magik's slave

MagiksSlave -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 9:01:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kubens Kubens had also been asking for a different kind of relationship. He wanted to be more like boyfriend and girlfriend and call me "sweetie" instead of "Mistress"--but still have the same kind of BDSM sexlife. I said no to these things but I felt it didn't sit well with him. But he claimed he still wanted me as a Domme. When i read this my heart sank a bit, i did not mind at all when Linda asked me not to call her "sweetie", and i love calling her Mistress. It may have seemed to her that it didn't set well with me, i did feel a bit embarrassed, but i honestly did not mind. i also want to make it clear that this has turned out to be a tremendous growing experience for me--i thank all of you for your comments. I always knew that D/s relationship requires more work for the Domme, but i didn't know what to do about it, now i'm beginning to realize why the sub needs to consider the wishes of the Domme, and needs to come up with compensations to help equalize things. kubens WOW now where in the world did this come from, I dont know about anyone els but I dont think this could be further from the truth, maybe you feel it is that way in your relationship but dont go minamiseing the amount of work myself and the rest of the sub/slaves on this board and in the life style put into their relationships. I put at least as much work into it as Master does, and I resent anyone who tells me because Im slave that I dont. Thats the way a relationship works any relationship, and Im sorry but Im just a bit offended by that statement, But then a lot of gross untrue generalisations do that to me. Magik's slave

AquaticSub -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 9:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross While I understand this mistake, in fact I've made it a dozen times myself, it's still a mistake on your part. (blatant generalization ahead) Male subs have some weird circuitry going on and they can get really flustered and confused up there. It took my partner THREE TRIES to get a 12 pack of Pepsi for me. Regular Pepsi. First time he made the mistake, I laughed at him and corrected him. Second time, I was a bit flaggergasted and annoyed, but simply pritned a picture of what I wanted for him to take with him. Next time- he got what I wanted. Training in the beginning really can be that basic and that boring and that tedious. But in the end, it's always worth it if you have someone sincerely willing and smart and open to learning. I have to admit - it's not just men who get confused sometimes when it comes to buying things for other people. Twice I've bought Valyraen a brand of cereal he hates. The first time he scolded me gently. The second time, he scolded me again and then informed me that if I did it a third time I would only be allowed to eat that until the box was gone. So far, I haven't screwed it up again! [:)]

AquaticSub -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 9:14:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kubens Kubens had also been asking for a different kind of relationship. He wanted to be more like boyfriend and girlfriend and call me "sweetie" instead of "Mistress"--but still have the same kind of BDSM sexlife. I said no to these things but I felt it didn't sit well with him. But he claimed he still wanted me as a Domme. When i read this my heart sank a bit, i did not mind at all when Linda asked me not to call her "sweetie", and i love calling her Mistress. It may have seemed to her that it didn't set well with me, i did feel a bit embarrassed, but i honestly did not mind. i also want to make it clear that this has turned out to be a tremendous growing experience for me--i thank all of you for your comments. I always knew that D/s relationship requires more work for the Domme, but i didn't know what to do about it, now i'm beginning to realize why the sub needs to consider the wishes of the Domme, and needs to come up with compensations to help equalize things. kubens It's not easy to make that switch. Particularly the first time, but it gets easier. Also, you might to know that there are d/s relationships where you can still call each other "honey", "sweetie" and by their given names. It just depends on the desires of the people involved.

slaveish -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 9:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I put at least as much work into it as Master does, and I resent anyone who tells me because Im slave that I dont. Thats the way a relationship works any relationship, and Im sorry but Im just a bit offended by that statement, He's new, MS. It's confusing. I'm sure it seems to him like the proper submissive thing to say about his Domme. kubens, MS is right though. It's just like any vanilla relationship you've been in with regard to taking two to tango. The roles are different, but their mutual importance is the same. She works, you work, both sides require effort. As long as you fulfill her and she fulfills you, it's all good; but it's got to be mutual. Don't lose sight of who ~you~ are or how important you are. Kapiche? Edited because I'm so tired that I, apparently, ceased speaking English a little while ago.

AquaticSub -> RE: communication (7/6/2007 9:43:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I put at least as much work into it as Master does, and I resent anyone who tells me because Im slave that I dont. Thats the way a relationship works any relationship, and Im sorry but Im just a bit offended by that statement, He's new, MS. It's confusing. I'm sure it seems to him like the proper submissive thing to say about his Domme. kubens, MS is right though. It's just like any vanilla relationship you've been in with regard to taking two to tango. The roles are different, but their mutual importance is the same. She works, you work, it's all good. Both sides require effort. As long as you fulfill her and she fulfills you, it's all good; but if it's not mutual. Don't lose sight of who ~you~ are or how important you are. Kapiche? I would like to second (or third? [:)]) this idea. Particularly if you are living a 24/7 relationship, being a submissive is hard work too. Being a dominant is work but remember something: She wouldn't be doing it if she didn't want to

stella40 -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 3:21:47 AM)
I don't know, maybe it's me who's confused here. I just find it very funny that people can get into the lifestyle, call themselves Dominant or submissive, get involved in the play, work out what is being submissive and what isn't, and yet they have problems articulating what they say and think and communicating that with the other person. Oh yes, the lifestyle, THE LIFESTYLE, with all the books, the articles, the websites, the fora, and so much advice. Maybe I'm the freak here, but whatever happened to taking the time and trouble and making the effort to get to know someone and make sure you're with the right person? Wouldn't this save a lot of problems? These boards and all what is written about BDSM on the Internet isn't supposed to replace communication, but supplement it. It sometimes seems to me that a few people are so very quick to assume the title and the position, the role and the lifestyle, to hand over collars and to either become owned or take up ownership, along with the necessary jargon and terminology, but yet have so much difficulty communicating to the other person what they want or how they feel in the relationship. How many times do we read 'a Mistress should', 'a submissive should', 'a Master should'...? It seems that play comes easy, too easy in fact. Oh yes, the 'lifestyle', with the floggers and whips and rope and each and every one of us a Domme, Dom, switch, sub or slave. Experience helps, it can aid understanding. But no two Doms and no two submissives are alike. We are all individuals. I see no difference between a vanilla and a BDSM relationship. Both require communication, trust and understanding of the other person. Therefore to me BDSM isn't about "the lifestyle" but about how well you can communicate and interact with another person in a given dynamic. And if you can't, then I'm sorry, to me it isn't BDSM. DISCLAIMER: This isn't an attack and isn't addressed to anyone in particular. It's just my observations drawn from a few of the postings and threads I've read on these boards lately.

kubens -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 6:25:00 AM)
Kubens had also been asking for a different kind of relationship. He wanted to be more like boyfriend and girlfriend and call me "sweetie" instead of "Mistress"--but still have the same kind of BDSM sexlife. I said no to these things but I felt it didn't sit well with him. But he claimed he still wanted me as a Domme. This paragraph makes it sound like I was the only one who wanted a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. Lady Linda and I met and a BDSM munch, she had a diplay promoting her dungeon designs, we got talking, she asked what my prefered role was, when I said I am submissive her eyes light up "ooh, that gives me some ideas", she said the look in her eyes intense, and I must say one of romance. I know she had strong romantic feelings for me from the beginning, and I felt the same way. We began seeing each other, the whole time the romantic aspect of our relationship was there, and eventually got in the way. Kubens

LadyOpinx -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 7:04:57 AM)
Kubens, Take this discussion off of the boards right now. You cannot know what I was thinking. Let's spare these good people our drama.

DominicsJoy -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 7:13:20 AM)
Whew, lots of issues. Like most problems that I see here this all would never have taken place with good communication in the first place. Having the benefit of age (life experience) and a wonderful Dom I can tell you that sitting down and talking about your desires, experience level, punishment and needs is paramount. That should normally be done with any relationship, but is essential when you want to have a long term bdsm encounter. Master expected of me what I told him and displayed to him that I was capable of. Things progressed from there. It is not necessary to be a highly qualified or trained submissive or slave to be desirable, even though there are many subs (I was one) who question their worth without training. If you are anxious to please and truly want to learn about the lifestyle you need to tell anyone you would think of being with that you simply are not sure of what your future in the lifestyle will be. You need to let them know simple things like how many times you have played and with what equipment. You also need to tell them of your likes and fears. If you do not, then any future problems rest upon your shoulders. Most Doms/Dommes are anxious to know where you are mentally, without that information it is guess work on their part to try and make the experience pleasurable for all. If you truly want to make their job easy, be honest and forthright. So many subs seem to think that the only way to impress a Dominant is to not say a word, lower their head and be a doormat until they are so frustrated that they bolt. Please don't be a doormat. Give the Dominant what they need and you will benefit also. If you don't know... ask. With the nipple clamps, if you didn't know which set, you should have gotten on the phone and asked. A simple apology (correctly worded) will work wonders! Mistresses and Masters usually do not want to punish (unless that is what you are into), they would much prefer you call and admit that you may not remember the exact pair that they were considering and want to do your best to get them the "perfect pair for their needs". If you are still punished afterward and think it is unjustified then you need to re-evaluate why you are there. The time to decide you are not compatable is BEFORE you are tied spread eagled to the bed and being whipped within an inch of your life for an infraction. And before you tell me what the punishment was, that was just a metaphor. I have no idea of what punishment was used nor do I need to know. Some people desire humiliation, some do not. Both parties share the blame. Originally you should have taken the time to discuss all aspects of the relationship and where it might go. I do not think that everyone needs a contract to do this, but if you use the check lists in "Screw the Roses" especially to help you determine limits, it would greatly enhance your understanding of each other. If you don't communicate at the beginning and set that up as an expectation of the relationship then all you are doing is committing to failure. Most people are looking for some sort of fullfillment, either for a fantasy they have, or for a lifestyle. Perhaps this was one of the basic problems that cracked the foundation here. It seems like one partner was testing the waters and wanting to "try on" the lifestyle.. while the other wanted more. Fantasies are fine, and exploring is great, but if that is what you desire then you should be up front about it. In closing, I think you both have very valid points to make. It is a shame that they came to light in this way. Your Domme is right, a bit of homework never hurts. Studying to gather what you can about a lifestyle is definately a great plan. Too bad that it comes after the fact. And you tried to please, but did not use the best judgement. We are all guilty of errors in judgement. Perhaps the punishment did not fit the crime. Are you learning? If that has been accomplished then this is not in vain. As long as we continue to learn we grow. No one is above that. Take this experience to heart and embrace the lessons it offers. Good luck to you both. Master's girl- joy

MagiksSlave -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 10:00:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveish quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I put at least as much work into it as Master does, and I resent anyone who tells me because Im slave that I dont. Thats the way a relationship works any relationship, and Im sorry but Im just a bit offended by that statement, He's new, MS. It's confusing. I'm sure it seems to him like the proper submissive thing to say about his Domme. kubens, MS is right though. It's just like any vanilla relationship you've been in with regard to taking two to tango. The roles are different, but their mutual importance is the same. She works, you work, both sides require effort. As long as you fulfill her and she fulfills you, it's all good; but it's got to be mutual. Don't lose sight of who ~you~ are or how important you are. Kapiche? Edited because I'm so tired that I, apparently, ceased speaking English a little while ago. I know that, I guess I was just taken a bit back by the statement and said it a bit harshly, but it really buged me to read so I reacted. I could have woreded it a bit nicer with the meaning beeing the same. Sorry for the harshness Kuban, however I stand by the meaning to what I said about slaves working just as hard as the Masters [:)] Magik's slave

MagiksSlave -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 10:06:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyOpinx Kubens, Take this discussion off of the boards right now. You cannot know what I was thinking. Let's spare these good people our drama. Hmm now this is classy, scolding him on open boards!!!! You guys into humiliation play??? Hey i can play this too. Why dont YOU take your drama off boards (you are beeing far more dramatic then he aspecialy in this last post) and give him a call to tell him you dont want to post any more!! That is far more tactfull and apropriate and respectfull of Kuban and any relationship you may have with him then posting it on an open board in front of the enrtire world (all those that read it any way but anyone with a PC can) Your the one that told him to come here in the first place!!! ((rolls her eyes)) Magik's slave

Autophobic -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 10:27:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kubens Lockit, your comments are right on! thanx. my Domme and i have left the door open the get back to the D/s relationship, i believe you're right the lessons learned will serve me well. i've already done some soul searching about what i want and what i did wrong, so i've already grown from this. i was not serious enough, and she realizes that she came on too strong. i've also come to respect my Domme for what she did, even though it was tough for both of us, i now know that only way i could have learned what i needed to know. And at the end of the day this is what matters

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 11:43:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I have to admit - it's not just men who get confused sometimes when it comes to buying things for other people. Twice I've bought Valyraen a brand of cereal he hates. The first time he scolded me gently. The second time, he scolded me again and then informed me that if I did it a third time I would only be allowed to eat that until the box was gone. So far, I haven't screwed it up again! [:)] OK well there WAS the time he told me to get him three supreme tacos at Taco Bell and for some unknown reason I translated this to "three supreme burritos" and as I'm ORDERING IT, in my head I'm going "That's weird, he never orders burritos and that's a lot of food for him" but does it click that MAYBE I'm thinking of the wrong thing? Not at all!!! So I told him it was my way of revenge after almost 3 years of getting back for the Pepsi incident :)

Lockit -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 12:09:35 PM)
Hello LadyOpinx and kubens, It is hard to come and expose yourself on a board like this... although there may be many reasons in which you did so and everyone can have their own take on it... what matters is what you take from the situation. It is hard to read other's thoughts and opinions of our own experience. I haven't been through it here on these boards yet, but I have been there at other times and it is hard. lol But... you do see things in a different light sometimes and that can be nothing but good! I wish you both well and hope that you will continue to be at CM and not afraid that some might have said things that you might think they will judge you forever on... because they won't. Not from something like this.

Lockit -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 12:13:37 PM)
I went to write a response... the phone rang and I post and there are many more post done while I was away... yikes... things move fast around here! lol

subiugo -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 11:22:34 PM)
D/s relationships are 'relationships' in the first place. And like in all relationships even the smallest things can start a fight in a D/s-relationship. The question is if a slave/submissive can and must be trained to handle fights differently than a non submitted man does. In my training at the Academy for slaves it was one of the first things Supreme Goddess Lorena discussed with us. And She teached us we should try to change our attitude of lowly males in a fight. If you want to change your attitude it is important to remind yourself of the values you want to live up to. As a submissive male i know the needs of my Mistress are superior to my lowly needs as a male. And i have to learn that what my Mistress is always right. By starting a fight, i am not only upsetting my Mistress, but is like i question the very basics of the D/s-relationship i want to have with Her. Maybe my Mistress can punish me, that is no problem. But maybe She is shocked in Her confidence that i truly want a D/s-relationship with Her. And that is much worse. But of course, there is a great responsibility for the Mistress also. She knows She has to handle a lowly male. And most probably this lowly male has learned how to fight to defeat other lowly males, in order to not being defeated himself by them… So, one of Her responsibilities is to detrain the men who want to submit to Her in the way they fight, and retrain them as really submissives who are aware that in a D/s-relationship they only can ‘lose’ what is most important for them: the confidence of their Mistress that they really want to submit. Of course, these are some very general remarks. And every moment of every relationship is unique. It is made at the spot, and can’t be redone. So there will be fights in a D/s-relationship. And as always communication is the only way to overcome fights. And in communication both parties have a responsibility. I just wanted to indicate that in a D/s-relationship, in my opinion the responsibility of the Mistress is different from the responsibility of the submissive.

MagiksSlave -> RE: communication (7/7/2007 11:26:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subiugo D/s relationships are 'relationships' in the first place. And like in all relationships even the smallest things can start a fight in a D/s-relationship. The question is if a slave/submissive can and must be trained to handle fights differently than a non submitted man does. In my training at the Academy for slaves it was one of the first things Supreme Goddess Lorena discussed with us. And She teached us we should try to change our attitude of lowly males in a fight. If you want to change your attitude it is important to remind yourself of the values you want to live up to. As a submissive male i know the needs of my Mistress are superior to my lowly needs as a male. And i have to learn that what my Mistress is always right. By starting a fight, i am not only upsetting my Mistress, but is like i question the very basics of the D/s-relationship i want to have with Her. Maybe my Mistress can punish me, that is no problem. But maybe She is shocked in Her confidence that i truly want a D/s-relationship with Her. And that is much worse. But of coarse, there is a great responsibility for the Mistress also. She knows She has to handle a lowly male. And most probably this lowly male has learned how to fight to defeat other lowly males, in order to not being defeated himself by them… So, one of Her responsibilities is to detrain the men who want to submit to Her in the way they fight, and retrain them as really submissives who are aware that in a D/s-relationship they only can ‘lose’ what is most important for them: the confidence of their Mistress that they really want to submit. Of course, these are some very general remarks. And every moment of every relationship is unique. It is made at the spot, and can’t be redone. So there will be fights in a D/s-relationship. And as always communication is the only way to overcome fights. And in communication both parties have a responsibility. I just wanted to indicate that in a D/s-relationship, in my opinion the responsibility of the Mistress is different from the responsibility of the submissive. Now this isnt aparently a shameless plug or anything!! ((Shakes her head)) Magik's slave

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