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RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 3:05:21 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Those appointments are the job. The rest is asked and answered.

Now you just seem a bit trollish.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 4:17:52 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Those appointments are the job. The rest is asked and answered.


So making other decisions about legislation and international affairs is unimportant? Or, rather, is his job solely to sit down and give them all exams?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Now you just seem a bit trollish.


I imagine it does seem that way when someone calls you on this sort of thing. Not that posting a politically-motivated picture was trollish. ;)

You have to accept that, if you wish to hold unreasonable charges against an individual, for better or worse, you are free to, in your own head. As soon as you speak them, they're liable to be challenged. Now, not many people are going to defend Presient Bush against whatever you say about him. He's not exactly a popular guy. But I do feel it's important for people to be level-headed, particularly when it comes to considering world leaders. If you want to blame the UFO crash and subsequent alien obductions at and around Area 54 on Bush, feel free. But as soon as you start slandering someone over stupid things? Expect to be called on it. Provided you're not around an entirely apethic or otherwise motivated-to-be-cynical crowd.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 6:11:06 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dragone

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, he can't control the weather, but he can control his responsiveness to his subjects.



I agree with what you wrote, dragone.

Why I made my comments about Truman's "The Buck Stops Here" sign on his desk.

His job is to be in charge and control the people who work for him.  Far as I am concerned, if he cannot do the job he should resign and turn it over to somebody competent.

Still waiting for him to actually be the person in charge, not just pontificate how he is the person in charge when he gives his speeches.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to dragone)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 7:33:02 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		CuriousLord:

Please read post #14 AGAIN:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1131280

Now, what part of that did you fail to understand?


(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 7:50:03 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I suppose it was difficult for me to follow such a comprehensive answer as the one you provided for my question in Post 20. I suppose the kettle's pot must maintain form, no?

Since it may've been obsecure for you: What was the obvious solution that you, in Bush's shoes, would have done?

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 8:43:49 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		This is where google is your friend, CuriousLord.

Look up Richard Clarke, read about him first. Then see what others have had to say about preventing 911.

And if you seriously need me to help you understand how the White House response to Katrina was quite weak then I just think you have problems I can't fix for you. Google probably can't help you either.

911 and Katrina were fuckups of monumental proportions. Much could have been done before and since 911 to prevent terrorism in the states. But instead of being worried about that, the White House concentrates on chipping away at civil rights for americans and doing nothing to secure the borders, etc. National Guardsmen don't belong half way across the world fighting some bullshit war, they belong in-country in defense of their homeland and serving in case of national emergencies. The White House used 911 as an excuse to go to war and moved all available resources to Iraq in order to help themselves to fistfuls of cash in what I call a reverse Robin Hood scheme: they take from the middle class via taxation and line their pockets with war profiteer gold.

Plus, what rankles is that you are mincing words about crap that was largely settled about 5-6 years ago (when you were 14 years old). In all seriousness, this stuff has been asked and answered across the internet for a really, really, really long time...

...and all these years later, I'm supposed to explain it to you because of a propaganda type poster design? The poster is supposed to be provocative. And no, it doesn't have to comprehensively make an argument and source all of its points.

If you are basically some ditto head trolling for his 15 minutes of nonsense - have fun with that circle jerk for one.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 8:53:59 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		So your grand answer is, "Go look it up, you're too young and a waste of time to explain to"? Not that I can't claim to love the term "circle jerk"- so pleasant.

If you can't answer a question with anything other than a name and claiming that the Internet will answer all questions for you, I'd suggest taking up a new philosophy on life. Of course, I'm certainly the one making nonsense here- posting something I admit to being propaganda.

In a way, it is fun teasing you for not being able to state your own thoughts and ideas. Still, though, it'd have been nicer if you were able to state your case without resorting to insults and attempts at passing the subject off to a vague reference.

Next time a teacher asks me why a particle goes at a certain speed, I'll remember, "Because you're an idiot and Einstein said so."


Still, that's more to tease you about failing to handle a non-rhetorical question very well. Try answering it. You might be surprised where a bit of sense can get you. Just remember, like anything else, not to go into this assuming that you're right.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Agreed! - 7/8/2007 9:23:41 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Um, I've stated those reasons here before. I am not your father, your education is not my business. This is a case where you come late to the game and want it all explained to you in detail by those that have already put in the time and already know the score. Don't want to use google, how about the search function for this site? How about searching "Elizabeth de la Vega"?

So no, I don't have to answer your questions because they have been asked by the ditto heads before you and answered ad nauseum here by myself and others of a similar political outlook.

You claim not to support Bush and then mount some lame "devil's advocate" defense of him. To what purpose I ask? These issues are pretty much settled for years now. And if your questions aren't asked in earnest, if they are just some intellectual exercise on your part, then I feel even less interested in answering them. I can't see the point of the time suck.

And yes, it's a propaganda poster - did I claim it was something else?

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 2:26:18 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		1. 4 Airliners and 2 towers balming Bush for 9/11 is far from being honest about who is to blame.
you can go back 3 presidents or more and see the potential for 9/11 being averted at different points all along the way.
You can be sure that Bush like every other president recieved files claiming x,y,z,h,i,j as all being THE MAJOR THREAT.
The fact that he didn't chose that threat file to focus on puts him in the company of Clinton, and Bush Sr.

2. Katrina's physical damage would not have chnaged reguardless of what Bush might have done or tried to do.
(even had he redirected every Corps of Engineers dime to the New Orleans levey system on day 1 of his administration it would not have been out of commitee and constructed by the time Katrina hit) So the destruction of the city is off base.
Post event response was messed up by several folks but Bush and FEMA certainly share a significant part of the blame.

3. Budget Surplus: hmmm lets see there was this little recession and the budget is moving back towards ballanced even with congresmen on both sides of the equasion spending like drunken sailors.I can fault Bush for not vetoing a budget, but that blame gets shared with Congress since it is controled by The House.


4. Habius Corpus an overstatement of the loss but it has a little merit. The courts  has cut down the cases where actual US citizens arrested on US soil by police do not get it.
And I'm thankfull that it happened. Wish it would spread a little more and apply to anyone arrested on US soil by police. But those captured on a battlefield outside the US They I put in a different classification.

5. Privacy Hmm last I checked the program folks were so up in arms about had been stopped and FISA courts were again issueing warrents for those intercepts involing US residents.
The stop gap loss of privacy I saw as something nessisary for a short term hole in the system. Now that hole has been fixed and I expect that things will again be going through FISA for the forseeable future.

6. And Scooter was hammered for basicly covering for someone who didn't need covering. The special prosecutor knew long before time that the leak wasn't Liby or his boss. But he kept the investigation going because he wanted someone big, even if it was not someone who actually did what he was hired to investigate. (Who was Novak's source).


Funny how Libby's partial comutation gets hammered by some of the same folks who were glad Sandy (classified documents down the pants and socks and to the dumpster) Berger got No Jail Time for his indiscression.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 8:06:37 AM   
dragone


Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Curiouslord; In reply to your post #19; if you would have read my other posts with the least of comprehension; you would have had to reconize, that he, 'Bush' is the man in charge. He, Bush, is where the 'buck' stops; he, Bush, is the CEO, the one who takes responsibility for his underlings. This was decide at the Nurenburg trails where, everyone of the N....people attempted to shift blame by offering in defense, "I could not control everyone under my comand."..., "I was just following orders", etc. Reagan used the same defense, as " I can't remember'; "you must understand hundreds of documents come arross my desk each day, you can't expect me to read every one",... at his hearings, after office, televised. No, I don't expect him to read every one, but surely the ones he signed into law.

The lack of response by Bush, to Katrina, is clearly a matter of common knowledge, matter of public record...and you twist, and insult in your rebuttals. The realities are there, in plain view; and you cry...miromanage'....well, he certainly 'mircomanaged' an illegal war, he certainly 'micromanged' ...HomelandSecurity'; he certainly 'micromanaged' driving the US budget to oblivion.

His crimes are numerous, and he is not going to be accountable, will leave office completely in tact, both in prestige and financial. Nothing will come to him to account for his mismanagement of government, violations of the constitution, which he had sworn to protect, his Patriot Act which strips the citizen of there rights, his underminding, and attemts to make the constitution competely null and void.

All your posts have one common bias;.... to look the other way, forget what HE has done to this country, keep silent. I suspect, that if this thread was about Clinton, you would be right there, " yeah, Yeah', let crucify him".

Your...."I'm afraid the basis of this thread is an insult against a third party. I truly hope you realize the hypocracy in this." Is just one more attempt by you to...again, just keep silent. Well the tread is no insult, when it brings to the front, crimes;..... Bush is an insult to this country, an insult to his sworn oath, to protect and defend the constution of the United States and it's enemeies, both foreign and domestic. Bush is an inslut to intergrity, with his countless lies and decieptions, with his favortistim to his special interest cronies, Bush is an inslut to justice, with his dupe 'scooter'.

I truly hope you realize the hypocracy of your statements.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 8:10:18 AM   
dragone


Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		CORRECTION TO POST # 30 ...to protect and defend the constution of the United States FROM it's enemies, both Foreign and domestic.

For those who want to nit pic, and insult. Sorry for the 'and'.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 8:17:33 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


4. Habius Corpus an overstatement of the loss but it has a little merit. The courts has cut down the cases where actual US citizens arrested on US soil by police do not get it.
And I'm thankfull that it happened. Wish it would spread a little more and apply to anyone arrested on US soil by police. But those captured on a battlefield outside the US They I put in a different classification.


YOU can put them wherever you care to.

But until you get around to Amending the Constitution, ALL PERSONS in US JURISDICTION get Due Process of the Law, and Equal Protection of and from the Law.

And any Government which disobeys the Constitution doesn't have the authority to rule any longer.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 4:06:49 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		You call stating your claims "education"? That's just pathetic.

Support your claims sometime. It'll do good. And, yes, I am annoyed you didn't have the guts to do it.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 4:16:21 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I sort of doubt we'll be able to agree on anything. You have this horrid, "I'm right for no logical reason" thing going, and the "keep silent" bit isn't exactly showing an open mind. I work off logic. This opinion-based junk just doesn't do it with me.

The "buck" idea is a simplistic notion that just doesn't work in the real world. The President is not, and can not, be completely responsible for everyone subordinate to him. Like it or not, he does not- and can not- micromanage an entire country- particularly not the United States. The US Government is a collection of people, and I'm terribly disappointed you seem to fail to recongize this.

I realize you're saying he "micromanaged an illegitimate war". Incaes you don't understand this- a lot of people had a hand in that. He didn't micromanage it.

In the end, you're holding one man accountable for collective faults of the most politically-active nations in the history of Earth. You say he's top dog, and that's the reason. That's bull. Even you should be able to get this.

I won't tell you to "keep silent". Speak. Just also listen. I do despise the close-minded. If you're able to make a valid point about how one man is ultimately responsible- how one man can be ultimately responsible- for millions, do so. Still, I must say, this strikes me as the twisted side of a romantic view.

(in reply to dragone)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 4:45:12 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PreciousLord
Support your claims sometime. It'll do good. And, yes, I am annoyed you didn't have the guts to do it.


Do these tactics normally work for you when you *visit* various boards?

Sorry to annoy you, but I just don't see why I should bother to educate you on circumstances well known and well documented in thousands of different places on the internet - including this message board over the course of at least the last three years.

You seem very unclear on what exactly the job of "commander in chief" of the U.S. actually *IS*. It makes educating you too large a task. It's like discussing calculus with someone that is unable to grasp that 2+2=4.

You are like a child that has recently learned to mouth the one word question "why?" as a response to everything that is said to you.

Good luck with that!

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Agreed! - 7/9/2007 4:48:12 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		*Sigh.* This is sad bud. You're trying to label me as an outsider here when you have 66 posts to your name. And what I do as "tactics" when you change my name on a backquote to something in an attempt to be insulting.

I know you're cornered. I know you commited to something that can only go down, and you're trying to save face and have some dignity. This isn't the way to do it.

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Agreed! - 7/10/2007 1:31:05 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Ah, so I see. Failing to prevent 9/11 was Bush's fault. Well, my dear kettle, would you care to tell me what you feel he should have done? Better, what would you have done, in his shoes?



I can answer this.

When the Clinton administration tried to brief him on Al Qaeda and their plans to do something terrible to the United States, he could have paid attention.

His administration did not do anything the outgoing administration recommended they do until AFTER 9/11.

So I would have paid attention to the people who had the job before me until I knew my way around.  Done the things they did to keep us safe.  Put more money and manpower into preventative espionage and police work, etc.

Although, I personally find it amazingly convenient that 9/11 allowed the current administration to get away with all the things they had expressed previously about wanting to get away with.

1)  Curtailing civil liberties

2)  Invading Iraq

3)  Pass laws allowing the President to suspend Presidential elections; in effect, making George W. Bush the dictator he talked about it being a good thing if he was one.

4)  Trying to smackdown unions.

5)  Offshoring US jobs.

6)  Raiding the Federal Reserve.

Should I go on?

Sinergy

Edited for verb tense confusion

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/10/2007 1:32:00 PM >

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Agreed! - 7/10/2007 2:17:39 PM   
dragone


Posts: 215
Joined: 5/29/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Sinergy, There is an old saying......' Those who foget history, are doomed to repeat it.'; ...Bush administration, exercised 'selective forgetfulness'; Why, because they wanted, had designs to do exactly what they intended to do, and accomplish just as they intended.

HISTORY; the Reichstag......Nazi Germany...(sorry for the N word, some here on CM do not want to hear it, old, ancient history ya know)....The Enabling Act.....A special Law which gave the Chancellor power to pass laws by decree without involvment of the Reichstag, powers to remain in effect for 4 years, then eligible for renew.

Day after the Reichstag terror fire, Hitler signed into law The Reichstag Fire Decree, banning Communisum, Later, at trial, one defendant found guilty, executed, others found innocent, later it was determined, however still not known for certain, the responsibles of the Reichstag Fire being the leading Nazi Elite.

Now, why in hell, do you think, the 24/7 365, slanderous attack on Clinton was engaged, His 'insider Trader' thingie, a 100,000 dollar alledged crime, costing over 48 million dollars to prove by the republican party, paid with taxpayer's money, unproved, total loss; his woorld shattering BJ, and Clinton's LIES to press, congress (republican congress) ...to discredit, and neturalize and incredulate  his administration; ...thus the diversions of the Clinton era, to the legitimize, incredulate, any information which was passed to the Bush adminstration...thus, the 9-11, and all subsequent objectives of the Bush adminstration to concludsion to...Mission Accomplished.

Creation of Patriot Act One, Two, to create the overall policing...HomeLand Security...to violations of our 'pesky' Consitution, not forgetting the elections debalcle ...the ursupation of 'our' government  as in evidence of the Florida fiasco.

BTW, Orin Hatch, and another Republican senator, have standing legislation proposals to ammend that section of the consitution which bans foreign born to be president. Here are Senators who are supposed to be defending the consitution, working to demolish it. Don't you know, when it is done, Any Arab, Chinese, will be able to be president and rule this country.

If Hillary, makes history, everything preseding her, she will be totally responsible for, and demanded to 'FIX' everything. When taxes will be raised, Social Security flushed in the toilet, to pay this outragous, unpayable, dept, no one, but no one will remember it was Bush, who brought us to failure.

[Mod Note:  juvenile baiting removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 7/10/2007 2:52:08 PM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 38
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