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"VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/16/2005 8:56:00 PM

fourpeas

Posts: 243
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!

I went on a few dates with this guy right before I met my Dom. It was just NOT WORKING OUT if you know what I mean. He was far too old for me, he smelled funny, and I just wasn't really physically attracted to him. I thought that he was just a friend, and the relationship started awkwardly, and I wanted to just be friends, and BLAH BLAH BLAH.

So I ended it by saying that I wanted to be friends.

Well, he didn't want that. He said he "couldn't exist on that reality..." Which I felt to be very judgmental and very clingy from someone whom I had literally been on two or three dates with. that's all.

So I said, ok. I won't call you.

So then he sends me an e-mail. Says he wants to talk. I say ok, great!! Let's be friends!! hooray!

He says no, actually I don't want to be friends.

Fine, I say. And I don't e-mail him.

He calls me, says the same thing. I don't call back. He keeps calling and calling, sounding more and more pathetic and finally I have to answer him back and say LOOK:

What I said was a teeny little exaggeration of the truth... I said I had been involved in "The Lifestyle" for quite some time and that I was no longer interested in "vanilla" relationships because I was involved in a dynamic.

AND HE WROTE BACK:

While I personally don't feel the benefit from aligning myself with
with any particular community or culture (I tend to shy away from
anything that seems close-ended --as I perceive it), there is a lot
about "the lifestyle" that I share and seek to express in my own
idiosyncratic way.

Oddly enough I've recently maneuvering through what seems to me to be
the possibility of a play relationship -- I'm certain this woman is
designed for it -- but this for her is confused with the "serious"
ramifications. Thoughts?

ASKING FOR ADVICE WITH HIS FIRST DOMINA.

My friends, Life truly is a sweet and hilarious thing. I laughed until I cried and I CANNOT WAIT to hear what my Dom has to say about this...

There is no such thing as vanilla.. I am now convinced...

xoxo,
anne (4peas)

Post #: 1

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 7:48:22 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

There is no such thing as vanilla.. I am now convinced...

Welcome to the vally of enlightenment. I've been saying that for year's. Every relationship is D/s based. At least those that succeed.
I sed to get the same thing from guys who would ask me out at work. Never had a man say he would'nt at least try the lifestyle.

Females tend to be a bit different from what I understand but men will try anything once.

(in reply to fourpeas)

Post #: 2

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 9:16:22 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Welcome to the vally of enlightenment. I've been saying that for year's. Every relationship is D/s based. At least those that succeed.

I disagree with that.

Every relationship might have energy transfers and someone more dominant or someone more submissive or some switching and all, but to me a Ds relationship is BASED consciously on one person having authority, the other person not, and being fulfilled BY that authority transfer.

There's a difference between being dominant and being A dominant. I have a vanilla relationship with the boyfriend, it's not based on Ds.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 3

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 9:44:53 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Every relationship might have energy transfers and someone more dominant or someone more submissive or some switching and all, but to me a Ds relationship is BASED consciously on one person having authority, the other person not, and being fulfilled BY that authority transfer.

There's a difference between being dominant and being A dominant. I have a vanilla relationship with the boyfriend, it's not based on Ds.

You disagreed yet you agree'd all in almost the same sentence. In a D/s relationship I may be told and am told to handle all household issues. Within the house I am in control...that does not mean he is not in control by telling me to be in control in the first place. That is a form of D/s.
I also said all successful relationships. If you have a boyfriend and an owner as you have stated. Something isn't quite successful there in my mind. Granted you may be having fun right now but down the line things will more than likely change.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 4

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 9:49:55 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I agree that people have dominant and submissive personality aspects, that there is dominance in all relationships.

I don't consider that "Ds" in terms of wiitwd and why we happen to feel some common bond on this list.

Lots of submissives have dominant personalities and are dominant in some relationships. I don't think they are engaging Ds relationships with those people.

Sometimes authority differentials come about necessarily due to the nature of relationship, for example a teacher should have authority over a student. That doesn't mean they are having a Ds relationship together.

"Being" dominant and taking some dominant stances in some relationships is not at all the same thing as "being a dominant" and engaging in a Ds relationship.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 5

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 9:51:52 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Granted you may be having fun right now but down the line things will more than likely change.

All relationships change :)

The Owner believes that the boyfriend and I will be married at some point and has given his permission for that. It won't change me being owned or my relationship with the boyfriend being vanilla.

What exactly isn't successful about having both?

What about 2 submissives and one dominant together, and the 2 submissives have a vanilla relationship with eachother. Is there something not successful there? Are they doomed to failure because they aren't Ds with eachother?

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 6

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 10:14:42 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

All relationships change :)

What about 2 submissives and one dominant together, and the 2 submissives have a vanilla relationship with eachother. Is there something not successful there? Are they doomed to failure because they aren't Ds with eachother?

To me success is long term happiness. Getting and attaining what you want for a long period of time. Year's, not month's.
I don't know the exact period of time I'd say it was for...but for example's sake let's say 3 year's. Certainly it is more than a year in my mind.

No clue how long you've identified with being in the lifestyle. I know I am much older than you are. But, how many 3 year long couples have you met so far who have 2 submissives and one dom? I can say I've known one. They lasted 4 year's before the bitter break up. That was the longest relationship I've ever seen.
They all start out with, "well we are different, we have it worked out we will last"
Six month's later it is history.
What happens when your husband becomes possesive of you and wants you all to himself as most husbands do at some point in time?
How many long term dom/dom couples do you know? How many long term sub/sub couples?

When I was in my twenties I thought somewhat the same way you are thinking. At least the jest of what I think you are thinking. The only difference was I was in a committed monogamous relationship, but not with someone I wanted nor expected to spend the rest of my life with. My 20's was the me decade. I was working on myself so I could then end up eventually with the right person.

We all are different. We all guage success in different ways. The things I've read that you have said. You're having the time of your life. As you should be, because you are young. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just not my personal idea of success.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 7

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 10:25:01 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
But, how many 3 year long couples have you met so far who have 2 submissives and one dom?

4 offhand, but I fraternize with poly relationships frequently.

quote:

What happens when your husband becomes possesive of you and wants you all to himself as most husbands do at some point in time?

I love how you say "when." Remember that the boyfriend became involved with me long AFTER I became owned by the Owner. He has had to deal with the Owner yanking my leash, changing our plans and controlling our time together in some sense ever since we first dated.

Why that would suddenly change if/when we got married I don't know, but if he did it would be an issue of course. But then, this has nothing to do with poly, it has to do with someone deciding that what they spent years being ok with is now something they are no longer ok with. I will deal with that as any good relationship would.

You are basically saying that poly non-Ds relationships ARE doomed to fail, that the boyfriend WILL become unable to accept the Owner and other partners in my life. One can't prove a negative, but I personally don't believe my relationship with the boyfriend is doomed.

quote:

How many long term dom/dom couples do you know? How many long term sub/sub couples?

3 for each, that I know definitely are long term.

quote:

We all are different. We all guage success in different ways. The things I've read that you have said. You're having the time of your life. As you should be, because you are young. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just not my personal idea of success.

So to you, one cannot be considered successful until some long term mark? Until that point it's just "trying"? It's just "playing"?

I agree that my relationships aren't terribly old yet, and there's a long way to go. But I don't think a relationship is unsuccessful just because it's new.

And I don't think a relationship is doomed to fail just because it's not Ds.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 8

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 10:29:30 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

How many long term dom/dom couples do you know?

1 - the only one that is important (to me) ... Holly and me - we just had our 5 year anniversary in February.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 9

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 12:05:14 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I love how you say "when." Remember that the boyfriend became involved with me long AFTER I became owned by the Owner. He has had to deal with the Owner yanking my leash, changing our plans and controlling our time together in some sense ever since we first dated.

So he is submissive, I assume you are submissive as well? Or are you the boyfriends dom? Just trying to make sense of things here.

A "good" relationship succeeds it doesn't fail. I have had failed relationships in the past. We all have. Sure there are good point's we can take from each relationship we have had. In good relationships we grow closer and more together. We all have our ups and downs.
We don't just "deal" with it and move onto the next person.

Obviously my views are somewhat foreign to you. Which is fine because I can learn from you as well.

No offense here SweetDommes but I've not met you in person just as you have not met me. Therefore I have no way to accurately know your relationship exists just as you have no way to know mine exists. Until we meet in person.
I would not call that a relationship I know of. I was talking first hand, real time knowledge of couples.
I have no reason to distrust you at this time so I will take your word for it. I still consider those I've personally known.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 10

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 1:00:08 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
So he is submissive, I assume you are submissive as well?

The boyfriend is kinky, but at this point a play switch, he tops and bottoms. I think one day he will make a fabulous dominant, but he is too much of a masochist to give up that experience. :)

I am a slave, but I top.

The boyfriend and I are vanilla in relationship to eachother, neither of us has authority over the other.

quote:

A "good" relationship succeeds it doesn't fail.

Well then so far all of my current relationships ARE succeeding.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 11

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 1:24:20 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

But, how many 3 year long couples have you met so far who have 2 submissives and one dom?

Well, I've been with my owner for more than 9 years and vision has been a part of the equation for almost a year. Does that count...lol? To be honest, I don't know an awful lot of vanilla couples who last 3 years these days. Even fewer that last five or longer.

quote:

A "good" relationship succeeds it doesn't fail.

I agree, except a relationship that fails after three years is still a failed relationship, imo. On the other hand, I do think its possible for the dynamics of a relationship to change without it spelling failure.

I realize you have not met me either, but there are quite a few here on CM...some who post, some who don't...that have, so perhaps you know a friend of a friend if that sort of thing is important to you.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 12

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! - 6/17/2005 2:07:22 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Well, I've been with my owner for more than 9 years and vision has been a part of the equation for almost a year. Does that count...lol? To be honest, I don't know an awful lot of vanilla couples who last 3 years these days. Even fewer that last five or longer.

I agree, except a relationship that fails after three years is still a failed relationship, imo. On the other hand, I do think its possible for the dynamics of a relationship to change without it spelling failure.

I realize you have not met me either, but there are quite a few here on CM...some who post, some who don't...that have, so perhaps you know a friend of a friend if that sort of thing is important to you.

I agree, I just threw out the 3 year thing. I was with my old dom for ten year's. Ultimately I asked for release. That was a failed relationship in my mind. For some they never make it near ten. I don't really know what would be the defining number.
The only thing I do know is a year in my mind isn't a success. It takes a bit longer than that.
A true success is a lifetime.

The reason why I don't guage online people as success stories is because it is easy to make up a life here and play it out. I laugh when I see people saying how much they respect another here. Because respect cannot be gained online. I can respect what you say but I cannot respect you without knowing you in person.
It is just too easy to read a webpage or two then start spouting off about the lifestyle. It is easy enough to be done to pull it off. These board's and some of the people here have proven that time and time again.
I'm the sort of person who has to see it for it to be true. Just as I don't expect anyone here to take my word for anything either. My life has been public quite a while now and it is easy enough to check me out if anyone so desired.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 13

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 2:08:12 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Incedentally, just to add to the tally, I know 1 dom/dom, 1 sub/sub and 1 switch/switch relationships that are long term.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but I don't have a huge group of realtime lifestyle friends, so these types of coupels are vastly out of proportion in my tally.

I have no idea how they make it work.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 14

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/17/2005 2:27:19 PM

CalliopePurple

Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline

And then, of course, there are the couples that are D/s without even realizing it. My sister and her boyfriend for example. She knows that, if she doesn't do what he likes, she'll end up sleeping on the couch and/or being denied sex. And he, in turn, makes sure she doesn't get so depressed that she end up hurting herself again. (My sister is a former cutter with Borderline Personality Disorder)

*edited to fix typo*

< Message edited by CalliopePurple -- 6/17/2005 2:28:15 PM >

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 15

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! - 6/17/2005 2:44:39 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

The reason why I don't guage online people as success stories is because it is easy to make up a life here and play it out. I laugh when I see people saying how much they respect another here. Because respect cannot be gained online. I can respect what you say but I cannot respect you without knowing you in person.
It is just too easy to read a webpage or two then start spouting off about the lifestyle. It is easy enough to be done to pull it off. These board's and some of the people here have proven that time and time again.
I'm the sort of person who has to see it for it to be true. Just as I don't expect anyone here to take my word for anything either. My life has been public quite a while now and it is easy enough to check me out if anyone so desired.

I don't really spend a lot of time worrying about other people's relationships and whether or not they are "real", because I simply don't care. It doesn't impact me either way. Just to clarify, I'm not an "online person". While I participate in discussions online, its not where I live my life. I'm not here looking for respect and also don't spend a lot of time worrying how others perceive me. I'm just me.

Now here's the thing...why would you ask a question of someone and when they respond turn around and say their answer doesn't count because you don't know them in person. Why ask in the first place if their answer won't be accepted regardless of what that answer is? Many of us do get together irl, and some of us have travelled quite a bit and know other people in the lifestyle all across the country and in the UK and Canada, some who do participate in online discussions and some who aren't online at all. If it is important to you, and you have been out in the community for quite a while, I'm pretty sure we could manage to come up with someone we both know in common and in real life.

<chuckling> That just made me think about the little town where I grew up. When someone begins to do business with someone they don't know, the first thing they do is talk until they find some sort of connection with someone they know. (Basically "ahhhhh...you are my sister's husband's brother's neighbor's child"). Once that is established, business can continue.

Anyway, I can understand being jaded I suppose, but when it doesn't impact you one way or another, I'm not sure why it is so important. Are you so afraid of being taken in by someone that everyone you meet is suspect...even if they aren't now and never will be a part of your life? It just seems like such a waste of energy. You've mentioned it a good number of times, I've noticed, so it must be very significant to you.

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 16

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! - 6/17/2005 2:52:43 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Are you so afraid of being taken in by someone that everyone you meet is suspect...even if they aren't now and never will be a part of your life? It just seems like such a waste of energy. You've mentioned it a good number of times, I've noticed, so it must be very significant to you.

Actually I can usually see through most people. Which is why I mention it so much here. Many cannot.
I also know people world wide. People send a lot of newbies to me. So, I tend to preach safety and don't get caught up all in internet people. More often than not they turn out not to be real.
People need to get out in the real world and experience things themselves. Yet safely of course.
Just today, someone on here whom I consider a friend told me she assumes everyone is a liar so she doesn't really take many at face value. I'm the exact opposite I know the level of trust involved in the lifestyle so I take everyone in the beginning to be as honest as I am. I let their own words soil things for me.
I take the lifestyle very seriously and I do realize a lot of people online do not. Some are so blatant to come out and say it is all a big joke.

Sorry if I got off track there.

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 17

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! - 6/18/2005 6:35:26 AM

fourpeas

Posts: 243
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline

But hey...

Isn't anyone going to have a bit of a chuckle with me...?

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 18

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! - 6/18/2005 7:07:30 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fourpeas
But hey...

Isn't anyone going to have a bit of a chuckle with me...?

I think it's a cute story, I see bits of D/s in just about everything. It definitely *is* amusing.

I agree with you that there is no such thing as vanilla. Vanilla to me is an act, not a dynamic. All dynamics are based on the exchange of power, or as Em says, energy transfers.

However, that doesn't mean that by de facto, all relationships are D/s. Embarking on a D/s relationship is a conscious decision in my opinion. Many relationships might fit the bill, but until they consciously make the decision to recognise the dynamics, it is not a D/s relationship.

As for the success of the relationship, everyone has their own perception of what makes a successful relationship. As we have seen on this thread, some people have more narrow views and some more open views. To me, a successful relationship is when all parties involved are getting needs met. Now I don't believe that one person can meet all my needs, and I'm not just talking sexually. Therefore, a successful relationship to me won't meet all my needs, but rather will respond to what I would want it to fulfill within that relationship.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to fourpeas)

Post #: 19

RE: "VANILLAS" Exposed! A Hot New Series! - 6/20/2005 11:59:08 AM

feline

Posts: 1101
Joined: 2/23/2004
From: CA
Status: offline

quote:

I am a slave, but I top.

I find this statement quite interesting. And contradictory. Could you explain what this means?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Variety is the soul of pleasure.
~Aphra Behn~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 20

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