RE: Punishment vs reward?

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Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 12:22:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tricia Sometimes, the reward is in the deed itself. i love to clean, i clean my house every single day. The reward is getting finished and enjoying it. The same goes for alot of things i do for my Master. The rewards aren't always tangible. Honestly, i guess part of our dynamic is - if he doesn't say he is displeased then this means he is pleased. And most of the time, that is good enough for me. Someone who continually thanked me for things i feel i should be doing anyway would really make me uncomfortable. Having 'duties' that are simply expected of you isn't necessarily a bad thing. *The reward is doing them and doing them well.* I spent the day with my Master yesterday. Afterwards i went grocery shopping and treated myself to a box of ice cream sandwiches. Later, in response to an email i sent him - he replied, "you....are a good girl. You should treat yourself to two boxes of ice cream sandwiches." That was my reward :) *emphasis added* Nicely said, tricia. Let me ask you this: if he did not reward you, whether ever, or just infrequently, would you be happy with the relationship?

tricia -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 12:33:06 PM)
Yes, i can honestly say i would be. It's hard to explain and not have it come across as flowery bullshit, but, a look, a smile, brushing my hair off my forehead - i view all those tiniest of things as rewards. And thank you, Level.

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 12:47:19 PM)
That's not flowery at all [;)]. I have a hunch he's well pleased with you, and I appreciate your answers.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 12:57:52 PM)
I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together. If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships.

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 1:04:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together. If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships. I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... [:D], my aching noggin........

Celeste43 -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 1:23:26 PM)
We don't have a punishment dynamic. If there's a matter of such seriousness that I will not be persuaded, then hitting me won't change my mind. For anything else, I'm amenable. I also don't respond well to negative reinforcement, I respond a lot better to positive. Are you more motivated if your boss screams at you for an hour for making a mistake or do you feel more desire to work harder if you are congratulated for your work in front of everyone? But rewards tied directly to what I do would be weird for me, it would be like he was grading me on everything and that constant level of competition and anxiety is something I can't handle. Eventually instead of expecting to fail, I would deliberately fail just to get it over with. You may respond differently of course. As far as taking me out to dinner, he does it when I've had long days and look too frazzled to cook. Plus for my birthday he tends to tell me to pick the best restaurant around I haven't been to and he takes me there. But he does nice things for me just because he loves me and likes to make me happy, the same way I do it for him. That's what you do when you love someone. I'm allowed to ask for stuff, play or sexually speaking. Others aren't but he enjoys the sight of me squirming and wet and since I'm more likely to know what would turn me on at the moment I'm supposed to share that info with him.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 1:30:20 PM)
I think that punishment has its place, a little trauma can be a good thing but it is a tool I try to use rarely. It is common in fiction because people find the thought of it hot. In real life I think that the difference between a submissive and a normal vanilla person is that a submissive is "fed" by having their dominant simply say "good girl" or their equivelent wheras a vanilla person looks at a relationship as I do X amount of pleasure/work for my partner and she does an equivent amount back. "I rubbed your feet twice so I want a whole body massage" as opposed to a submissive/slave saying "I have served you all day, let me sit at your feet and listen to you tell me what a good slave I am"

lk70 -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 1:55:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 But he does nice things for me just because he loves me and likes to make me happy, the same way I do it for him. That's what you do when you love someone. [:)] You're the first person, I think, to mention love. I was curious about that.

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 2:04:14 PM)
Love is perhaps the most wonderful thing in the universe, but it isn't a must in BDSM, of course. But it sure makes things better, IMO.

DominaSmartass -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 6:05:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lk70 So let's pick a random example...let's say your sub/slave prepares a really nice dinner for you and friends or business associates. Is there any gratitude or is it just that's what she's expected to do? Any chance of her getting a nice dinner out as thanks? Or maybe some sexual favor she enjoys? This is not my own opinion, but what a lot of people will say...service is its own reward. If someone isn't getting what the need out of the relationship simply by providing the best service they possible can, then they are obviously not a "real" slave. My opinion: my partner should always feel appreciated and I do little things to make sure that he doesn't feel like his efforts go un-noticed. That doesn't mean that I don't expect certain things from him "just because" and he certainly doesn't expect a "reward" each time he does something right but there's a happy medium.

MagiksSlave -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 6:28:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I never understoon the emfasis(SP) put on punishment. It seems rather unfullfilling to only ever be in trouble when you do something wrong and punished yet when you do something good it is ignored with the reason that "Its what they are suposed to be doing." the Truth is if this goes on long enough at least for me I start to feel unapreasiated and also when only the things I do wrong are pointed out I start feeling like a failure, there is a need to put as much if not more (actually there is a need to put more enfasis on it in my opinion) enfasis on the good things then the bad... Thin about it Domanent type people how would you feel if only the negative things you did where talked about and that you where only ever punished for doing bad and never rewarded for doing good or "what you are suposed to do"?? Magik's slave Being appreciated is a wonderful thing, but ultimately, if one submits to another person, then fulfilling that commitment should be goal #1, shouldn't it? Whether they're praised or not? Im not saying every little thing a slave does should get them a pat on the back, Im just saying when the punishments outway the rewards and the slave isnt missbehaving all that much but still the punishments are more frequent or the only thing that is where the problem comes (if 95% of the time a slave does as well and 5% of the time she doesnt but the 5 times out of 100 she does wrong she is punished and only 1 time out of the 95 times she did right or in some cases 0% of the time she did right it goes ignored) Im babbleing but Im thinking you get what I mean. Magik's slave

MadRabbit -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 6:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together. If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships. I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... [:D], my aching noggin........ Speaking in general terms, I dont think service based slaves are rewarded by the service themselves, but by the appreciation of that service. If I ignored the service, payed no attention to it, offered no praise or appreciation and completely took it for granted, then they wont be receiving the fullfillment they get by serving me. If dominants (not saying you Level, but other posters) want to narrate it that they dont owe anything to the slave for their service or submission, thats fine. Speaking from personal experience and my understanding of service, my opinion is that I am very much obligated to show appreciation and praise for the service being offered if I expect to keep a slave and ensure their own fulfillment.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 6:59:46 PM)
In most of real time, long term successful Ms relationships I know, the Master's disapproval is usually enough to encourage the slave to autocorrect. I know few who punish poor behavior simply because that gives power and energy to that behavior. All that poor behavior, from either partner, does is limit the depth of the relationship. Master Fire

lk70 -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:15:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam In most of real time, long term successful Ms relationships I know, the Master's disapproval is usually enough to encourage the slave to autocorrect. I know few who punish poor behavior simply because that gives power and energy to that behavior. All that poor behavior, from either partner, does is limit the depth of the relationship. Master Fire I've come to realize that I've used the wrong term. "Punishment" has a very specific meaning to some of you and I was really just referring to any sort of negative behavior, including the expression of disapproval. So my question could be reworded. Use of disapproval vs approval. But either way, I'm getting what I was looking for.

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross I don't think my partner or I would be happy if we didn't get rewarded from eachother regularly, but I think that's because we both adore spoiling eachother and it's part of who we have always been together. If one or both of us stopped doing that, it would be as bad as any inherent part of us making a sudden change- and that always causes turmoil in relationships. I imagine most people are like that, LA. I just wanted to say that there are those that are wired to be fulfilled by the service, not by being rewarded. but hell, I guess you could make a point that just being allowed to serve, for those few, IS being rewarded...... oy vey..... [:D], my aching noggin........ Speaking in general terms, I dont think service based slaves are rewarded by the service themselves, but by the appreciation of that service. If I ignored the service, payed no attention to it, offered no praise or appreciation and completely took it for granted, then they wont be receiving the fullfillment they get by serving me. If dominants (not saying you Level, but other posters) want to narrate it that they dont owe anything to the slave for their service or submission, thats fine. Speaking from personal experience and my understanding of service, my opinion is that I am very much obligated to show appreciation and praise for the service being offered if I expect to keep a slave and ensure their own fulfillment. Good evening, MadRabbit. I would guess that you'll meet with success with showing appreciation to a submissive; most human beings benefit from some sort of validation in their life.

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:31:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave I never understoon the emfasis(SP) put on punishment. It seems rather unfullfilling to only ever be in trouble when you do something wrong and punished yet when you do something good it is ignored with the reason that "Its what they are suposed to be doing." the Truth is if this goes on long enough at least for me I start to feel unapreasiated and also when only the things I do wrong are pointed out I start feeling like a failure, there is a need to put as much if not more (actually there is a need to put more enfasis on it in my opinion) enfasis on the good things then the bad... Thin about it Domanent type people how would you feel if only the negative things you did where talked about and that you where only ever punished for doing bad and never rewarded for doing good or "what you are suposed to do"?? Magik's slave Being appreciated is a wonderful thing, but ultimately, if one submits to another person, then fulfilling that commitment should be goal #1, shouldn't it? Whether they're praised or not? Im not saying every little thing a slave does should get them a pat on the back, Im just saying when the punishments outway the rewards and the slave isnt missbehaving all that much but still the punishments are more frequent or the only thing that is where the problem comes (if 95% of the time a slave does as well and 5% of the time she doesnt but the 5 times out of 100 she does wrong she is punished and only 1 time out of the 95 times she did right or in some cases 0% of the time she did right it goes ignored) Im babbleing but Im thinking you get what I mean. Magik's slave I do get what you mean [:D]. All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close?

sublizzie -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I do get what you mean [:D]. All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close? Sounds like my last boss........

Level -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie quote: ORIGINAL: Level I do get what you mean [:D]. All criticism and correction, and no praise, would beat your spirit down, make you feel unappreciated, and make you doubt the relationship, if not yourself. Am I close? Sounds like my last boss........ [;)] Never a good thing, that.

favesclava -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 7:54:34 PM)
the thought that i have displeased him even if he werent aware of it yet ,is enough to make me cry. i get rewards for being a good girl and that means i try very hard to be whats expected of me. far from perfect , but all Master expects is for me to try my hardest. one time i did not, i stopped doing a daily chore, being too busy with other stuff. when i realized this i told Master of my failure. my punishment was swift painful and brief due to the fact i brought it up. i have not been punished since then and had various rewards. spanking being one of them[;)]

MzMia -> RE: Punishment vs reward? (7/8/2007 8:31:22 PM)
I certainly rather/prefer rewards to punishment. I don't like bratty submissives or someone who wants to engage in a power struggle. Also, as it has been stated, my punishment is just that: punishment. It is not something you ENJOY or like. [:D]

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