Relationships and complicating what should be simple.

Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 2:45:40 PM)
You have to do this, this and this to be submissive. You can't do this, this or this if you are submissive. You have to do this, this and this to be a Dominant. You can't do this, this or this if you are a Dominant. Is any of it really necessary to have a D/s relationship? So many seem to get hung up in the outward displays, the actions, the perceived "rules", that when something happens outside of what they see as the way people must behave in order to call it dominance and submission, they then question either the validity of the relationship or the validity of the orientation of the person they are involved with. "My _____ just did _____. Is that a proper thing for a _____ to do?" To me, a D/s relationship is two people who come together, one who is dominant because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship, one who is submissive because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship. They interact with each other from those perspectives. It's not defined the use of honorifics in conversations, it's not defined by one's ability or lack of to speak in the third person, it's not defined by kneeling on rice, it's not defined by giving orders, it's not defined by punishment, it's not defined by one's level of creativity in creating rules. It doesn't have to be complicated.

meticulousgirl -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 2:53:18 PM)
Greetings mistoferin, In many ways I can see where you are coming from and your right. Todays lifestylers and kinksters have seemed to complicate things alot. I enjoy the mental aspects of this lifestyle, infact I enjoy the mental aspects more than I sometimes enjoy the physical. People make it out to be complicated because that suits their sadistic side I think. Submissives and slaves seem to want to go further beyond expectation in a common attempt to achieve perfection but what many of them do not realize is that none of us are perfect. How one Master chooses to punnish His slave is not how i am punnished i bet my life on it, and how one Master chooses to inflict pleasure upon his sub or slave is not how i am given pleasure. Everyone here is different for the most part, i've noticed over the years that most of us dont practice the same acts, exactly the same and to be honest.....that's ok. Complication when it comes to just about everything though seems a little rediculous. As long as the two parties involved are happy, nothing else should really matter. ~meticulous~

kaprecia -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 2:59:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin You have to do this, this and this to be submissive. You can't do this, this or this if you are submissive. You have to do this, this and this to be a Dominant. You can't do this, this or this if you are a Dominant. Is any of it really necessary to have a D/s relationship? So many seem to get hung up in the outward displays, the actions, the perceived "rules", that when something happens outside of what they see as the way people must behave in order to call it dominance and submission, they then question either the validity of the relationship or the validity of the orientation of the person they are involved with. "My _____ just did _____. Is that a proper thing for a _____ to do?" To me, a D/s relationship is two people who come together, one who is dominant because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship, one who is submissive because that is simply their natural position in an intimate relationship. They interact with each other from those perspectives. It's not defined the use of honorifics in conversations, it's not defined by one's ability or lack of to speak in the third person, it's not defined by kneeling on rice, it's not defined by giving orders, it's not defined by punishment, it's not defined by one's level of creativity in creating rules. It doesn't have to be complicated. Bravo! Great post! Thank you! I was once told that the Dom I was out to dinner with was 'not very domly'... the reason, well he opened the door, pulled out my chair, and asked if there was anything else I wanted when he ordered dinner. That same Dom was told that I was not very 'submissive' because I did not kneel at his feet at a meeting we were attending but instead sat beside him. D/s is a relationship, each relationship has its own 'unique' things that make it right. I hope never to become a 'picture perfect submissive' and am rather happy just being myself. I agree, it does not have to be complicated, at least not any more complicated then any other relationship.

bandit25 -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 2:59:13 PM)
Erin, If you get a definitive answer, would you PLEASE clue me in? I am totally lost.

windchymes -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 2:59:35 PM)
I think it probably gets confusing, especially for some newbies, because there seems to be so much "defining" and giving definitions of terms and emotions, and writing out lengthy discourses on "What is _____ to you?" We read so much of that, and then someone comes along and does or says something new that wasn't in the "definitions", so it raises questions. New subs & slaves come in believing that those who call themselves "experienced" are the know-all-end-all bottom-lines of BDSM, and they're told to learn from sites like this and others by reading, but since there is no BDSM "bible", so to speak, there really is no place to go to get the correct answers (then we get into the question of who or what IS correct, lol). Unfortunately, they're going to have to ask questions like the OP to attempt to clear up some of their own confusion.

VeryMercurial -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:02:39 PM)
I have to disagree. We are all different, we all seek different things here. We can't even agree on the definition of a: Dominant, submissive, switch, Top, or bottom. It is very complicated, until you find a partner that is on the same page as you are.

KnightofMists -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin It doesn't have to be complicated. who says all that stuff is complicated for the people involved. I suppose for some it is and I suppose for some it isn't. For some the Theory of Relativity is rather complicated to understand... but.. there is a few that find it rather simple to understand. I think it really depends on the individuals within the relationship. I what I percieve as simple might seen as rather complicated and vice vrs. Your description of a D/s relationship may seem just right for some.. and others... it might seem shallow and lacking any depth. Addig depth from there prespective doesn't mean that it get complicated for them.. infact.. they still see it as rather simple. Again.. it depends on the relationship.. but there is always those that want to simply things and have everyone sing from the same song sheet.

MJSunshine -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:16:35 PM)
It really is simple. If it's complicated, it's because we complicate it for ourselves. I think we make it more complicated so it feels somehow deeper - like we're better than regular folks because we have all these rules and rituals and definitions. Personally I'm tired of parsing out syllables and debating semantics. I just like living it. Who cares what it means to anybody else? My validation comes from gasp inside me...not from what anybody else's rule book states. dances off to beat of own different drummer

MadRabbit -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:17:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial I have to disagree. We are all different, we all seek different things here. We can't even agree on the definition of a: Dominant, submissive, switch, Top, or bottom. It is very complicated, until you find a partner that is on the same page as you are. Shes not talking about definitions, but rather behaviors and things that happen within the relationship. I've said it before. What defines my M/S relationship is simply my authority over my slave. What I tell the slave to do, how I want her to act and behave, and what goes on as far as the details of my relationship are completely up to my preference. Whether I choose to make my slave wear a slave collar, a horse bridle, a leash made from rope, or clown hair has zero bearing on my authority. Whether I prefer my slave to be outspoken, loud, and talkative as opposed to the silent stereotype often portrayed has zero bearing on my authority. If I prefer to have my slave call me Sir, Master, Captain, Bitch, or Seargeant Skipy the Space Skunk has no bearing on my authority. If I were to one day want my slave to perform needle play on me and ordered her to do so, it has zero bearing on my authority...no more than ordering her to give me a blowjob does. However, the stereotype of the Top = Dominant would make other people scream your "unDomly". The BDSM community in general has this narrow perspective regarding behaviors and protocols that happen in a relationship created from a number of influences, primarily fantasy. Slave collars, slave positions, chains, cuffs, walking around the hoise naked, kneeling naked with a cup of coffee. Personas regarding how a Dominant or submissive/slave should act. To me, these are merely superficial standards and whether I adhere to any of them has absolutely no bearing on my relationship. Its about the mentalities and the authority transfer between us.

VeryMercurial -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:19:20 PM)
I am not going to argue here. I just posted my opinion. For those of you that think BDSM relationships are easy and uncomplicated, I am happy for you. Reading these boards tells me they are not easy and they can be complicated.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:23:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial I have to disagree. We are all different, we all seek different things here. We can't even agree on the definition of a: Dominant, submissive, switch, Top, or bottom. It is very complicated, until you find a partner that is on the same page as you are. wouldnt the green text be when it became a relationship though? so maybe finding that is complicated, but, if the fit is right with the ones involved in the relationship, it will flow naturally... at least it did for me.....

VeryMercurial -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:27:07 PM)
Exactly SeeksOnlyOne! It is not complicated when you find your perfect fit. : )

MadRabbit -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:30:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial I am not going to argue here. I just posted my opinion. For those of you that think BDSM relationships are easy and uncomplicated, I am happy for you. Reading these boards tells me they are not easy and they can be complicated. If you are saying "The relationships themselves can be complicated" then I would agree. If you are saying "The relationships themselves can be complicated because we have to adhere to the standards being set by whatever BDSM, Gorean, Leather, Old Guard, New Guard, Slightly Used Guard, European House, American House community", then I would seriously disagree.

MJSunshine -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:35:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit If you are saying "The relationships themselves can be complicated because we have to adhere to the standards being set by whatever BDSM, Gorean, Leather, Old Guard, New Guard, Slightly Used Guard, European House, American House community", then I would seriously disagree. Much more succinctly said than what I did...but precisely what I meant. Thank you MadRabbit.

VeryMercurial -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:44:16 PM)
I choose not to list all the aspects that make things complicated. I thought that went without saying, and was common sense. My point was they are complicated for a variety of reasons. So I will again, stick with my answer of: I think BDSM relationships are complicated, for a variety of reasons until you find someone you connect with.

MadRabbit -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:52:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial I choose not to list all the aspects that make things complicated. I thought that went without saying, and was common sense. My bad. My point was they are complicated for a variety of reasons. So I will again, stick with my answer of: I think BDSM relationships are complicated, for a variety of reasons until you find someone you connect with. Ok great...but I am trying to figure out what this has to do with the OPs post. You seem to be saying that BDSM relationships are complicated because we are all different and finding an ideal match is hard. I will agree with that. Finding an ideal partner can be a very complicated thing. But thats not the point of her post. She's talking about two people in a relationship who are overcomplicating the relationship by trying to adhere to the standards set by others. And thats an unneccasary overcomplication. You have to figure out who you are and what you want on a personal level and not chase after or be bothered by the people who claim your relationship isnt real because you dont do think their way. Whether I have a long list of rituals and protocols instead of a short simple one or try and change my slave's behavior to conform to the standards of what some group of people deemed as proper slave behavior isnt a necessary complication if I dont want it to be. She's not saying that the relationship itself is necessarily miracously easy and simple, but it doesnt have to be overcomplicated because what other people tell you you should do.

Rover -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:53:45 PM)
I agree entirely that this is made out to be much more complicated than it is. But then, that's the way a good number of people want it to be. John

angelic -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:53:57 PM)
i tend to agree with most of what you said. For me, the complication comes in finding the one for me. i know (most days) exactly what i want and refuse to settle for less, seems fairly simple. What is not so simple is actually making that a reality...that is where it gets a bit more complicated. ~edited to add~ And now i want to find one that will let me call him Sgt. Skippy the Space Skunk (cuz i thought that was funnier than hell). [8D]

mistoferin -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:54:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists who says all that stuff is complicated for the people involved. I suppose for some it is and I suppose for some it isn't. Again.. it depends on the relationship.. but there is always those that want to simply things and have everyone sing from the same song sheet. I think that maybe you misunderstood what I was attempting to say. I'm not saying that it is wrong if people want to have a list of a thousand rules they expect each other to conform to. What I am saying is that you can take all of that away and still have a D/s relationship. It is not the rules and protocols and actions that define what is and is not a D/s relationship. Often times I read the boards here and see people who are completely confused because they hear all the "you're supposed to's" and if their relationship or partner steps over those perceived lines they end up questioning if what they have is valid. What I am saying is that two people can apply what they wish and still have a relationship that isn't any less valid than the next. It doesn't matter if it fits the ideals of the masses or not.

VeryMercurial -> RE: Relationships and complicating what should be simple. (7/8/2007 3:56:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic i tend to agree with most of what you said. For me, the complication comes in finding the one for me. i know (most days) exactly what i want and refuse to settle for less, seems fairly simple. What is not so simple is actually making that a reality...that is where it gets a bit more complicated. ~edited to add~ And now i want to find one that will let me call him Sgt. Skippy the Space Skunk (cuz i thought that was funnier than hell). [8D] Some are making this thread, MORE complicated than it is. LOL We are on the same page here. whew

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