RE: Collaring for Subs Only?

RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (Full Version)

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KatyLied -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 4:26:17 AM)
quote: A collar IS the signifigance of a wedding ring. That's what it means to you, not to everyone.

Rover -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 4:53:44 AM)
In reply to the OP, the bottom/submissive/slave traditionally wears a collar as a sign of ownership. But this is a wildly non-traditional lifestyle, so there's no need to be a prisoner to convention. There are collars that say "Master" and "Owner" on them. I've seen them in leather shops, vendors show them at events, and they're available online. Presumably, some people are buying them, or they wouldn't be for sale. So I have to conclude that there are other (if a relative few) Dominants who wear collars for one reason or another. In general I'd say that you should do what works for you. But you're also part of a couple with a unique relationship dynamic that may not allow you to do what works solely for you. Talk it over with your partner and come to your own conclusion. John

Rover -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:00:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HardnRuff A collar IS the signifigance of a wedding ring.Very few things in our lifestyle are any more signifigant if any .It is the outward symbol of a commitment.It marks you as * Property* of another does it not ??It should be worn in pride. What do you think the ceremony of roses Means ?? It isnt a Joke and should never be taken lightly .A collared sub becomes untouchable unless her Dom/ Master gives His permission.A collar is not just a piece of jewelry that comes off.. I prefer a locking collar that Only I have a key to and one for her for emergencies only.. I don't mean to offend you, but this is online fantasy at it's best (worst). A wedding ring means that someone has taken on a significant financial responsibility. When collars include half the house, half the bank account and half the retirement fund, there will be quite a reduction in the number of collars given out. Bottom line is that overall, collars mean quite a bit less responsibility than a wedding ring. On the individual level, that will depend upon what value the participants place in both wedding rings and collars, and how that stands the test of time. John

Caius -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:07:05 AM)
Actually, I apologize, HardnRuff. Perhaps I was the one who could be better decribed as tactless in this case. I simply meant that you used a very specific approach with a narrow intepretation of the meaning of the collar when you analyzed her problem. But nothing inherently wrong with that, and after reviewing your wording I can see "tactless" is defintely not the right word.

pussinbootz -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:12:19 AM)
quote: What do you think the ceremony of roses Means I have no idea.. can someone enlighten me?

RCdc -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:31:33 AM)
Its an unoffical (by that I mean it has no legal standing) ceremony that occurs at some collarings full of ritual and symbols. There are rose ceremonies in traditional wedding ceremonies too which are similar in ritual and symbolism. But none of them hold anything legal or offical, its simply something romantic, some people think pretty and some people think grand. It's no different to any other ritual really. Just google it. the.dark.

Rover -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:46:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pussinbootz quote: What do you think the ceremony of roses Means I have no idea.. can someone enlighten me? The ceremony of the roses, near as I can tell, was invented by Jade at Castlerealm. John

GhitaAmati -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:52:58 AM)
quote: I don't mean to offend you, but this is online fantasy at it's best (worst). A wedding ring means that someone has taken on a significant financial responsibility. When collars include half the house, half the bank account and half the retirement fund, there will be quite a reduction in the number of collars given out. Bottom line is that overall, collars mean quite a bit less responsibility than a wedding ring. On the individual level, that will depend upon what value the participants place in both wedding rings and collars, and how that stands the test of time. While I dont agree that anyone's lifestyle is "online fantasy at best", I do agree that by definition, a collar and a wedding ring do not in any way mean quite the same thing. There are legal and financial aspects to a marriage that at least at this day and time, a collar just doesnt have. Maybe someday after gay marriages are legalized, collars will be too..who knows, but for now, they arent. Now, once you realize that, the emotional attachment to a collar, can be quite a bit more than to a ring. I definantly understand that and its to each person to determine what that attachment it. I am married, I am a wife before I am a sub. I, like you (the OP), find it natural to defer to my husband in some things, but for the most part we run the house as two equal adults. If at any point my husband started telling me what to do every minute of the day, he would be leaving. We have a long standing joke where he tells me that if I dont do something the right way he'll kick me to the curb, and I jokingly remind him that its my house and if anyones leaving its him. We had a vanilla relationship before we had anything else. We had both been in the lifestyle before, but our relationship grew as a vanilla one, and we both like it that way. Now, 4 years into the marriage, we are beginning to explore D/s together. I am a sub in the bedroom (sometimes), at leather socials, and at playparties. He bought me a collar not too long ago, its gorgeous, sterling silver and in truth I could definantly get away with wearing it inthe vanilla world as a peice of jewelry. But I see it as more than a peice of jewelry. I have my wedding ring (and he wears his execpt at work) to show the world my heart belongs to him. My collar is an outward sign of a role I choose to take. When we play, or when we go to a fetish event, he places that collar on me and I choose to be submissive. When the parties over, it comes off and damn it if I dont want to do the dishes right now Im not going to. Dont ever let anyone tell you your choices are wrong, you dont have to be a 24/7 naked and in chains slave to be a good person. If thats not you then to hell with everyone else. I choose to take part in this lifestyle because it makes for alot more fun in the bedroom. I have friends who live the dynamic all day every day, and they are wonderful people and I love them for who they are personally, not for how they live their lives. I also have friends who really only scene as tops and bottoms and arent even submissive or dominant at all. Its up for you (and your partner) to decide what that collar is going to signify to you. And there is no reason he cant wear a leather armband on his left arm (anything on the left means Dom, on the right means sub in the Leather community, and it is VERY common for a Dom to wear something to show that he has a partner and what his role is). The even make small leather rings held together with a rivet to wear. A necklace, a bracelet like the medical ID ones engraved with your name instead of alergic reactions, a pair of military dogtags, anything can be anything. It doesnt matter what the rest of the world thinks or knows, only the significance YOU put on it. ~~edited for content and to run in the time alloted~~

thetammyjo -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 5:54:35 AM)
Think of what the collar represents -- control and ownership. How then would it be appropriate for the dominant. But wait, you are only sub in the bedroom. Why then would you wear the collar anywhere else? The collar then can be a symbol or sign of starting bdsm time, it comes off to signal that you are returning to a more egalitarian state. Not a lot of information in the OP but if he's trying to get you to wear a collar outside of the bedroom it reads to me that he is trying to push you to submit in areas you do not want. Frankly I wouldn't tolerate that myself.

Rover -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:00:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GhitaAmati quote: I don't mean to offend you, but this is online fantasy at it's best (worst). A wedding ring means that someone has taken on a significant financial responsibility. When collars include half the house, half the bank account and half the retirement fund, there will be quite a reduction in the number of collars given out. Bottom line is that overall, collars mean quite a bit less responsibility than a wedding ring. On the individual level, that will depend upon what value the participants place in both wedding rings and collars, and how that stands the test of time. While I dont agree that anyone's lifestyle is "online fantasy at best", I do agree that by definition, a collar and a wedding ring do not in any way mean quite the same thing. For purposes of clarity, I never said anyone's lifestyle was online fantasy at best. I said that collars being the equivalent of wedding rings is online fantasy at best. No trifling difference there, and evidently you're in some agreement. John

Wildfleurs -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:01:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BDsbabygirl I am fairly new to this and fell into it quite by accident; my Dom and I met as just friends in a vanilla world but after a while we fell into a romantic relationship. As he has been into BDSM for most of his adult life, he recognized certain qualities in me and we have been greatly enjoying exploring those traits. Now, this is where it gets more complex; outside of sex, we are basically equals. It's in me to defer to him on certain things and that's how I did it in my two vanilla marriages so I don't think of that as being a sub, especially since I actually abhor being told what to do and can only suspend that hatred for the bedroom. I went into this long preface so you can see my mindset; I think as a vanilla person except in the bed. Now, my Dom wants to collar me and while I thrill at just the idea of such a thing, there's the vanilla part of me that wonders why HE doesn't have something to show he's "taken"; the last time I was married, I actually stopped wearing my wedding ring because my husband wouldn't wear his and I didn't want to be the only one 'marked'. How do I get over this desire to feel equal in terms of showing the world who belongs to whom? I am actually looking forward to being collared but I don't want it ruined because I resent that he has no 'mark' other than hickies (!) Thank you to all who respond. I'm curious - what does your dominant/partner see a collaring as signifying? If you are looking for a symbol that can be reciprocated and have a similar one that means he belongs to you, then I think a collar is really the wrong fit. I don't liken a collar to a wedding ring, a wedding ring signifies something completely different. To me a collar means that the person is owned, so people who are owned don't own or mark their owner to show that their owner belongs to them. I think if you are comfortable with your feelings of equality and wanting to find a symbol to signify that he belongs to you as much as you belong to him (which it sounds like you are, which is good), then you may want to explore some sort of matching or complimentary jewelry for both of you instead of a collar. C~

GhitaAmati -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:12:41 AM)
quote: For purposes of clarity, I never said anyone's lifestyle was online fantasy at best. I said that collars being the equivalent of wedding rings is online fantasy at best. No trifling difference there, and evidently you're in some agreement. My apologies then, I misunderstood the context of your first comment.

MHOO314 -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:19:15 AM)
*He DOES have a mark----you.*

GhitaAmati -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:23:18 AM)
quote: Think of what the collar represents -- control and ownership. How then would it be appropriate for the dominant. Thats certainly what it represents to a large amount of the D/s population, but that doesnt mean it has to represent that to her (the OP). Ive run across several Dom wearing collars, and when I asked them about it, they said, oh this is a masters collar (evidenced by the fact it had no D-rings on it). Doesnt make much sense to me, but if they are comfortable with it, what the hell. To each their own. I agree that maybe matching collars isnt the way to go for her, while some other significant item may be. But I dont think its up to us to tell anyone what significance a collar should be to them. I wear a collar when im in the sub "role" but to me, it doesnt signify "ownership". Even at a high protocol leather event where Im pretty sure most other people equate me to a slave because of the amounts of strict protocols I follow there, I am in no way owned. That collar signifies to me that my heart belongs to ONE man and I choose at that moment to reliquish control to him. I am never, no matter what Im wearing, a possesion to be bought, sold, traded, or loaned out. To me personally, ownership implies property, implies object/thing. I am not. Yes, I agree that to many people thats what a collar means and they would gladly tell you they are their Master's possesion. Im not saying they are wrong, Im saying I still wear a collar even though it doesnt mean that to me. They (the OP and husband/partner) need to sit down and discuss what the collar signifies to them. I personally dont think it matters what all of us think it signifys, unless it helps her to understand that not everyone thinks the same thing so shes not wrong for disagreeing with some of us (or all of us even). ~~edited to add: this is only my personal opinion, after re-reading it I realized I came off a bit over the top. Didnt mean to imply I was right and everyone else was wrong. I had to take a break in the middle of writing it several times to calm down UMs who seem to think the house is a racetrack this morning.

RCdc -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:24:27 AM)
Hello tammyjo Whilst I agree that a collar can signify control and ownership - it isn't like that for everyone. It really does come down to what you believe and what you think as a couple/person/polyunit. I have a bit (slight understatement)of a Ring fetish... lots and lots and lots. And then some more. In this collection, I have a russian wedding ring. But to me, it is simply a russian wedding ring, tricoloured and stunning. But it means absolutely nothing to me as it's original intention. It doesn't mean I am married with a russian ring as the token. It is simply an item that adorns my little finger on occasion and looks lovely. Collars can be like that. Or they can be something else. I see no harm or foul in a dominant wearing a collar or token from their submissive if that is what they want. Peace the.dark.

MstrssPassion -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:33:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thetammyjo Think of what the collar represents -- control and ownership. How then would it be appropriate for the dominant. <snip> I think this pretty sums up why it is that the submissive wears a collar & not the dominant. The collar is a mark of being owned. History reveals many ways that owners would mark their property, be glad this lifestyle adapted the collar to be the common representation of being owned over things such as branding. [sm=idea.gif]Come to think of it... that could be a good thing. People might actually take time to think things over a bit longer before jumping into situations of being owned if they had to be branded rather than have a collar placed around their neck.

thetammyjo -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:39:35 AM)
I think it's interesting that people latched on to my first comments about the collar but ignored the rest of my reply to the OP. The OP stated that she is only interested in doing this in the bedroom. Why then would she wear any symbol of that interest outside the bedroom? Why does her partner want her to do so? I suspect that he is trying to push the Ds outside of her interest and comfort level.

RCdc -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 6:54:59 AM)
I don't see anything malicious in his intent. I just see someone wanting to collar someone else, when they havent really defined what a collar means to them as individuals, let alone as a partnership. Maybe her wearing a collar in the street turns him on? Who knows? Shes simply asking why a dominant cannot wear one and she quite likes the idea - answer is - yep if they want to and its up to the both of them. They just need to discuss it between themselves and communicate what they both want - then choose. I don't see anything dramatic or dynamic changing in his want, just miscommunication. the.dark.

Lashra -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 7:12:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pussinbootz I too am a bedroom sub, for me my collar signifies that I am MM's, but, apart from in the bedroom, I am his equal. If he started making decisions for me and not allowing me to then there would be problems... and I know he wouldn't want to anyway. In the end, it doesn't matter what else anyone says. This is one of those situations where there is a spectrum of degree. Some people go for TPE and the collar means something very symbolic. There are others that only submit in specific situations, and the collar only applies in those situations. No one way it more twue.. the only way that is right for you, is yours!! It all depends on where you fit on that spectrum and whether you and your Dom are happy with it. If you suggest that your Dom wears a symbol and he agrees that's cool, if not it's something you need to think about.. are you happy for him to say no? Ask him, see what he says.. if you are his equal outside the bedroom you have as much right to ask him this as he does to ask you to wear a collar! Puss This says it all very well. OP just ask him and if he says No ask to know the reason behind it. ~Lashra

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Collaring for Subs Only? (7/10/2007 7:19:27 AM)
FR As many have asked- what exactly does the collar mean for him? Is he actually against wearing a symbol of ownership, or is it simply that you chafe at the idea that it isn't "the same" as what you have? Perhaps a symbol other than a collar or NO symbol at all might be best for you guys. I understand the importance of a symbol that many people have, but you do have to make sure not to let the symbol own or control you.

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