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Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 10:37:14 AM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		Reading through the threads and postings often makes me wonder whether a lot of the problems we encounter stem from the fact that some people appear to assume that how they experience life should be the same for everyone else.

This is not just about some of the things we read about here on these boards, I think an excessive egotistical approach and an attitude of self-interest and putting their own interests first is the primary motive for some to disregard what is written in other people's profiles and to put their interests first and foremost. How many submissives have encountered the attitude 'this is all about me' from a prospective Dom? And how many Doms and Dommes have received messages from submissives which appear to be solely focussed on the needs and desires of the submissive?

I sometimes wonder whether that defining difference between vanilla relationships and BDSM and D/s relationships is the lack of honesty, manners, tact and openness (or an ability to compromise or even take an interest in the other person) formed in the latter. Rather than taking an interest in the other person and finding out about them it often appears that the person making the approach not only has a preconceived notion as to how the relationship will look but also focusses on their needs, wants, desires, etc. Why is it that the open, well thought out and appropriate message from someone appears to be the exception rather than the rule?

And then we come to the 'community'. But what is this 'community' anyway? I've even used the term myself, but at other times I stop and wonder. I often hear about 'we in the community' but who exactly are 'we'? I sometimes wonder if the term 'community' is misused or overused, because we are all after all individuals and the only thing which appears to unite us is an interest in BDSM and D/s. However when you stop to consider the whole umbrella of BDSM it seems very possible that our interests have very little in common. The notion of everyone being 'like-minded' sometimes strikes me as ridiculous, as the majority of us are not very like-minded at all. We often cannot agree on what BDSM is, or what BDSM isn't, we are all just individuals with our own interpretations, preferences and experiences.

We appear to be herd animals. We tend to stick with people who are most like us, who we agree with, who we feel comfortable with, and with a bit of luck we will remain free from prejudice and negative, non-constructive criticism. We often like to form cliques, especially if any sort of disagreement occurs between people in a group. Trying to remain neutral is almost impossible, you're either 'with us' or 'against us' it appears.

It's all too easy to accuse people of taking sides when they choose to disagree with you. It's a shame that differences are seen as a negative thing. I think they open up new avenues of discussion and exploration and provide an opportunity for learning. I might not enjoy your kink, I might disagree with you on some things, but this doesn't mean to say I dislike you as a person. It also doesn't mean I cannot be civil towards you, it doesn't mean I won't rub shoulders with you if we were to ever meet, and it doesn't mean I cannot acknowledge you. I don't need to be unpleasant in order to make myself feel better, especially to people who I hardly know. I need to be really upset before I could even think of retaliation, but usually I've got more important things to do in my life.

You would think that being part of such a 'community' which embraces a wide range of kinks, fetishes, BDSM practices, rituals and relationships tolerance would go pretty much hand in hand with being part of this community, but sometimes it doesn't. I know this from my own experience of being transgendered, but you don't have to be transgendered to know what I am writing about here. You can be looked down upon for being bisexual (both male and female), for being a switch, for being gay or a lesbian, for being Gorean, for being polyamorous, for being a Pro-Domme, for being a crossdresser or sissy.. I could go on. Is there a wider tolerance in this 'community' or is this just a myth?

How many of us forget or overlook the fact that we were beginners and newbies once, and that for everyone BDSM is a learning curve? It is very easy to laugh at, criticise and ridicule the 'gift of submission', the uber-Dom, but how perfect were we when we first started out?

I like to think of ourselves as being openminded and tolerant, and many are, and many go out of their way to teach and give advice to others on these boards. But is that tolerance based mainly on sexual preferences and tastes and how we all individually fill out the B, the D, the S and the M? It means we can say "It's not my kink, it's your's but that's cool." Sometimes this appears to be the extent of the tolerance I have seen - nothing more, nothing less. On this site given that we would all acknowledge that we have minority interests, we ought to be more openminded than average, it's just sometimes I wonder.

Please don't think I'm addressing anyone in particular, I'm not, and I'm not being 'holier than thou' either, I've been there, I've had my own 'asshole' phases and been full of myself, maybe I'm just having a more cynical day today but I thought I would just add my thoughts and reflections and offer them for comment and discussion.

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 10:46:48 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
Reading through the threads and postings often makes me wonder whether a lot of the problems we encounter stem from the fact that some people appear to assume that how they experience life should be the same for everyone else.

It's common enough everywhere.  People don't generally want to feel like they are weird or the only one.  (While simultaneously hating the idea that they aren't "unique") And it's normal brain short cutting and general ego which makes us try and consolidate everything.

Unless something comes along to teach us or jar us out of where we are, we can generally go through life as if our little sphere is what matters and that we're all on the same page- I think this is mostly true of Manhattan.

quote:

I sometimes wonder whether that defining difference between vanilla relationships and BDSM and D/s relationships is the lack of honesty, manners, tact and openness (or an ability to compromise or even take an interest in the other person) formed in the latter. Rather than taking an interest in the other person and finding out about them it often appears that the person making the approach not only has a preconceived notion as to how the relationship will look but also focusses on their needs, wants, desires, etc. Why is it that the open, well thought out and appropriate message from someone appears to be the exception rather than the rule?

Because open, well thought out PEOPLE are the exception.

And the same issues occur in all types of relationships.

quote:

 The notion of everyone being 'like-minded' sometimes strikes me as ridiculous, as the majority of us are not very like-minded at all. We often cannot agree on what BDSM is, or what BDSM isn't, we are all just individuals with our own interpretations, preferences and experiences.

I think the definition of "community" is broad enough to allow for even great differences in perspective, intention, motivation, and action.  But, like all words, use what works for you and leave the rest.
quote:


We appear to be herd animals. We tend to stick with people who are most like us, who we agree with, who we feel comfortable with, and with a bit of luck we will remain free from prejudice and negative, non-constructive criticism. We often like to form cliques, especially if any sort of disagreement occurs between people in a group. Trying to remain neutral is almost impossible, you're either 'with us' or 'against us' it appears.

For the most part, yes.  But I think it's obvious that this isn't everyone.

quote:

Is there a wider tolerance in this 'community' or is this just a myth?

Totally a myth.
quote:


How many of us forget or overlook the fact that we were beginners and newbies once, and that for everyone BDSM is a learning curve? It is very easy to laugh at, criticise and ridicule the 'gift of submission', the uber-Dom, but how perfect were we when we first started out?

So we shouldn't tell the newbies that they are acting like dorks?  How did we stop being dorky newbies and BECOME wiser, better people?  In part because we engaged other people and they helped us realize we were being dorks.

quote:

On this site given that we would all acknowledge that we have minority interests, we ought to be more openminded than average, it's just sometimes I wonder.

As always, one's personal relationship orientation really doesn't say ANYTHING about personality, intelligence, or maturity. 


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 10:48:16 AM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Bravo, Stella.  I work hard to always remember who I was when I first found my way to this life and try to help those in that place now, but like you, I've had my moments.  If we all give more concern to making "a community" that thrives on change and guidance and we look to build vs. tear down we might do better as a whole. 

Unfortunately in the world of online a simple sentence can be read 100 ways by 100 people.  I applaud your post.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 10:53:45 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it's egotistical or arrogant. I think that is a basic way the human mind works when interpreting the world. It's like stereotyping, it's easy and fast but it may not reflect objective reality; we all know the stereotypes but what we do with them differs.

One way to expand beyond that is try and ground what you do in your experiences and share that when you express an opinion.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to stella40)
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RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 11:00:12 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

Reading through the threads and postings often makes me wonder whether a lot of the problems we encounter stem from the fact that some people appear to assume that how they experience life should be the same for everyone else...



this slave will call your measure of the problems folks encounter as "a lot" and even raise it to "most, if not all", at which point she is all in.
 
it is the best evidence this slave can think of as proof that each of our realities are not some universal objective model containing the mantra "well of course it's the same for everyone--if not they are flawed with mental defect", but subjective and as unique as our experiences, relationships and ourselves individually are.
 
dogs (and some humans) are able to recognize a person's individual, unique "smell"...it is but one of many of an individual's unique tells.
 
quote:

...Is there a wider tolerance in this 'community' or is this just a myth?...

 
ridiculous myth...and "community" is in the mind and heart of the beholder. 

(in reply to stella40)
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RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 11:39:23 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		The only way I can see things is from my point of view. I literally only have one lifetime of experience that has shaped me. The only needs I know about are my own. Assuming I can see someone else's needs and views seems to be a great deal more arrogant than only speaking for myself.

I see nothing wrong with a dominant who only talks about his needs, and a submissive who only talks about her own. What is needed beyond that, of course, is the ability to listen to each other and see whether or not your needs and desires match up. Whether or not there is compatibility.

If so, then you go on to see if everything else agrees well enough or not. If there isn't compatibility, then goodbye and good luck.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 12:16:55 PM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40
Please don't think I'm addressing anyone in particular, I'm not, and I'm not being 'holier than thou' either, I've been there, I've had my own 'asshole' phases and been full of myself, maybe I'm just having a more cynical day today but I thought I would just add my thoughts and reflections and offer them for comment and discussion.


You write very eloquently. Good job.  I think this last paragraph you are trying to single me out....actually I'm just joking.  lol

I think everyone has no choice but be limited by their perspective.  I think your perspective of trying to be understanding, your actually in that perspective and saying why cannot everyone be from this correct perspective......

having a perspective, its not that easy to switch perspectives.  Its a skill, although pretty useful.

At best, with very careful listening, you might be able to guess their perspective on the issues they wanted to mention.  There are a multitude of perspectives, and because of this and some perspectives by their very nature are not friendly to other perspectives....

If you really had the ability to switch perspectives, you could of answered your own questions.  lol

disclaimor:  please don't take anything I said too seriously unless you took it as a compliment......

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 2:05:36 PM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		I'm going to jump back in here. I'm not saying it's wrong to have needs, desires, wishes, motivations, or to have your own perspective - it isn't, and this is what makes all what we regard as the 'community' interesting and diverse.

I also realise that in posting this here to a very large degree I'm doing not much more than 'preaching to the converted'. In fact, I'd even go as far to assume that those who are more extreme with the egotistical and arrogant approaches aren't the ones here taking the time to read threads and postings and write their own. Therefore my assumption is that we here are the more open-minded, tolerant members of a vast international online community.

It may just be that today, specifically, more than any other day recently I'm looking at things a little differently, trying to look at things from a different angle, admittedly with a tinge of cynicism, and I'm here just wondering - which is why I've posted - whether any of you out there go through similar spells when you look at how everything is and you read through the postings and threads and you start to wonder can it be any different? Do you find yourselves ever beginning a sentence with 'if only'?

I'm in the minority, and tend to see things predominantly from my own narrow transgendered perspective. Well, my perspective is actually female, only I cannot have children, I don't experience menstruation, I haven't gone through the same experiences as naturally born women, so my perspective is going to be different. However (and I admit this) I can 'switch' on the basis of many years in male gender role and see things from a male perspective, or seemingly so, as I have never been male.

My perspective is warped, from memories of prejudice, rejection, and fear of the same. I would get defensive, and in the past I have focussed on my own issues rather than those of a relationship. But it hasn't always been bad, I have experienced a lot of kindness, acceptance, support and been given lots of chances, often by people in the community, so I cannot with any truth say that this is a hostile, intolerant community.

This has led me to try and not be judgmental of other people, but to try and see things from their perspective, even to the point of imagining I am them or with them for a day. I have lived a largely transient life, have tried to be many things and failed at almost all of them, I've been part of many different communities, met many interesting people, and always try to look for the good in others and for the other side of the story.

But sometimes I forget....

In many ways I'm lucky.. I don't have a lifestyle which ties me to one place, I'm almost 41 and I'm free, and I have a truly wonderful Domme, which although being still online (but not for much longer) finds me developing a relationship in which I won't be a slave.. nor will I need a collar. It hasn't always been easy, I've been through another 'asshole' phase, which I have overcome through learning so much from my Domme, who knows me, my family (the remaining part who still want contact with me, and who up until last year thought I was going to settle down in vanilla with a nice man), my past, my nature, and who can read me like an open book. So far so good, but I know that nothing in life is guaranteed.

Part of this is my own internal process, in my own self-development and in preparing for a life and a relationship as my Domme's submissive, but also as what I feel is a step towards my own fulfilment.

All I am doing is sharing my inner thoughts, maybe some doubts and insecurities, and asking whether anyone else sees things at times from a different perspective, a different angle. Do any of you ever become cynical of the community, of others in the community, or of the lifestyle? Do you ever become cynical of yourself, and of your opinions held regarding the lifestyle?

_____________________________

I try to take one day at a time, but several days come and attack me at once. (Jennifer Unlimited)

If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 2:41:08 PM   
sophia37


Posts: 1433
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Wheres Lady Ellen when we need her?

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 2:43:17 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Who hath summoned the great one?

And what for?

I have kitties to play with!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to sophia37)
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RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 3:06:52 PM   
Viciousbabe


Posts: 61
Joined: 5/15/2006
Status: offline 		Because of my life's experiences I have been cynical of just about everything in life, including my choices in the 'lifestyle'. It is through those phases that I find out what I truly need and want. People are built to think of themselves so as to be able to maintain themselves and carry on a family, if they so choose. One must know what they want before they can begin to serve/master another.

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 3:37:49 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viciousbabe

One must know what they want before they can begin to serve/master another.


Actually, one must know what they want in order to define such basic elements as happiness, success, fulfillment, compatibility, etc.  Anyone may serve or Master another.  Doing so and being happy, feeling successful, feeling fulfilled and being compatible is quite another thing.
 
John
 
P.S. - Sorry if this seems like nit-picking.  That's not my intention.

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Viciousbabe)
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RE: Assuming everyone is like you - 7/11/2007 4:17:09 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella40

All I am doing is sharing my inner thoughts, maybe some doubts and insecurities, and asking whether anyone else sees things at times from a different perspective, a different angle. Do any of you ever become cynical of the community, of others in the community, or of the lifestyle? Do you ever become cynical of yourself, and of your opinions held regarding the lifestyle?


Thats a hard question to answer.
Personally, I do see things from my angle, but I also believe that the other persons angle is completely valid unless they force their decision upon me - then I get defensive and protective of my ideals and my realisations.  But I would never, ever force someone to follow my way, I simply voice a POV.  So I will look from a different angle, sometimes I might even dip my toe in the water so I can have some sort of understanding first hand - but only in the sense as someone might take a bite from a new dish to see if its for me or if I might actually like those mussles (using seafood as an example) and order them again sometime.(If that makes sense).
 
Personally - I want to try nearly everything I possibly can because in that way, when you can understand and see from within, fear goes.  Doesn;t mean I know it all or could posiblly understand from anothers POV, but I can at least learn to accept that something I dont 'get' is possible.  I don't second guess - because its not healthy to me.  Do i get cynical? I would have to say yes, but not in a negative way because I embrace selfishness and do not see it as a negative emotion or act.  I adore Ego... I think its a beautiful thing.  So yes, I am selfish - but I don't become cynical in a twisted way because my views are mine and not meant for anyone elses life because I do not belong to a lifestyle.  I tend to see myself as not like anyone else, and I dont have a need to fit in a group - maybe coz my egos so huge!  So my automatic assumption is that everyone only has one similarity and that is that everyones different.
Ach - its late and I have no idea if any of that made any sense....!
 
Peace
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to stella40)
Profile   Post #: 13
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