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Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 8:55:12 AM

velvetears

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i have very deep veins/arteries. Or so i have been told by health care professionals. Whenever i go for blood work, or have to have an IV put in me it's a major ordeal. i generaly know of one spot thats fairly easy on my right arm but these know it all nurses insist on trying my left (more convenient for that side) - personally i think they are closet sadists but thats another topic altogether lol. These sadists in white uniforms literally puncture my arm (underside of elbow) and withdraw and push and withdrawn slightly again and push trying to find the vessel. Needles don't bother me much and while it's uncomfortable and i might wince a bit i generally let them stab at it till they finally stop, exasperated and then concede to try my right arm, where they get it in a try or two.

Now my question as to needle play as pertains to bdsm. i have never tried it - i list it as a limit mostly just because i have no interest and would not want to attract those interested in needle play. i would probably be open to it in an established relationship if it was really his thing. For those with experience in it - can it be compared at all to actual medical needle experience (obviously arousal and scene setting is not there when going to the doctor). As i sat there recently with nurse stabbem i was thinking about needle play saying to myself - this isn't fun lol. i know it would be in a different context but would the actual physical sensation be all that different? Does needle play not penetrate as deeply, like they do when trying to find a blood vessel? If so then freaking piece of cake! lol

Is it the power of the dom having the authority to do this that makes it hot? Is it the sensation of the needle piercing the skin? Is it seeing the work when it's done? i would like to understand this kink for those who have the inclination to share.. thanks

< Message edited by velvetears -- 7/14/2007 8:58:04 AM >

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 9:02:01 AM

mistoferin

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I don't really know how to answer this and I have been poked with a gagillion needles, both medically and in play. It really depends on the type of needle play one is doing, the area of the body being concentrated on and headspace. Most needle play is more painful than getting a shot or having blood drawn...but far less annoying if that makes any sense. Exception would be if one is playing with acupuncture needles...they are really quite painless.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 9:19:59 AM

meticulousgirl

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For me and this goes with everything to do with the lifestyle and play practices....

it's about the Dominant asserting His power, and control. It's not about me enjoying needle play, it's the fact that He's using His power of having the control, it's the mental stimulation that comes from it. Knowing that He can do whatever He wants because I refuse to use a safeword.

I'm not really a masochist but I love it when I know that I'm submitting to His will, and what He wants, it's not about the physical for me as much as the mental stimulation and the peace of mind I get from it if that makes any sense.

As far as if you can relate needle play with having needles stuck in you at the dr's office. No there really isn't much relation at least in my experience, the mindset is completely different and at least with me, I have a much lower pain tollerance that my Owner decides to use to His advantage, for me it's two completely different atmospheres with two completely different purposes.

~meticulous~

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 9:20:27 AM

salilus

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Joined: 5/18/2007
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Some people like injection play (saline) and that would require getting the needle in deep, I assume.

A lot of the needle play I've seen is rather shallow (just under the skin) and is more like a piercing than an injection or blood draw.

And, the fear and the idea of force penetration make it hot for me.

(in reply to velvetears)

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 9:59:50 AM

MasterFireMaam

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It's not any more comparable to medicine than sex is to an annual exam.

There are several reasons I like needle play as a sadist: blood, artwork and the reactions I get. There are several reasons I use needle play for myself as well as for others, when asked: spirituality (for example, chakra work), ritual (for example, a 'releasing' ceremony) and blood (for example, being able to write symbols with blood).

Master Fire

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/14/2007 10:49:38 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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The context to me is completely different, however it is completely understandable if enough issues in one make you unlikely to enjoy the other. I too have horrible times getting blood drawn and it's a main reason I'm not a regular blood donor. But the reasons I don't like needle play as a bottom are completely different.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 8:32:54 AM

velvetears

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Thanks for the responses everyone. i understand mindset probably has a lot to do with it, as someone mentioned, and the authority dynamic being major componants. If i can take repeated deep stabs in a setting with 0 arousal and no dynamic present maybe put in a different context i might be able to enjoy it. i have friends who say they were deathly afraid of needles try it and now LOVE needle play - so that had me curious as to what it was they were experiencing.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 8:48:53 AM

Grlwithboy

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I found them apples and oranges. I will say that having to have blood drawn DAILY for a month and frequently for a year as well as numerous IV's etc. has left me cold on needleplay which I once kind of enjoyed though - so the psychological ties are there regardless. But it does feel quite different from the pokes you are talking about.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 10:53:13 AM

submittous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Is it the power of the dom having the authority to do this that makes it hot? Is it the sensation of the needle piercing the skin? Is it seeing the work when it's done? i would like to understand this kink for those who have the inclination to share.. thanks

Yes...

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 12:22:57 PM

ready4srvce4all

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I find no correlation between playing and actual medical services, as others above have mentioned. I really enjoy it, and I loved the pattern that Mistress produces. I don't find it painful at all, and I love the mystery of "where is the next one going?" Not to mention, Mistress loves needle play.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 12:58:15 PM

earthycouple

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When a nurse or phlebotomist "digs" to hit the vein it is totally different than needle play done in a BDSM setting.
First let me say this: you have the power to say "no". You can tell them not to dig and you can tell them 100% that they will not use X spot but Y is ok. If they argue tell them too bad. You know your patient rights and that's one of em.

Now on to the fun stuff....needle play is done with only the actual needle no vacutainers attached, does not draw blood from veins and remains very shallow. Typically I pierce parallel to the skin and go through one side and out the other, not unlike a sewing stitch. The reason medical needles are used for this is twofold: they are sterile when new and they are extremely sharp and have a bevelled edge. That beveled edge makes for piercing the skin much easier. They are tons sharper than any brand new sewing needle or pins (again we have that sterilization issue too). Needle play typically draws very little blood, a drop or two, and once the needle is in place it usually won't hurt until it's pulled out and that only lasts a second just like going in.

Of course all of what I've said here is based on the type of play I do and others may not be quite the same!

The patterns that can be made using different gauge needles (which means the hubs are different colors and the needle shaft size is different also) is very pretty and enjoyable to me.

For a beginner I always suggest using very small gauge needles to start and going from there as tolerance builds. The needles going in for an IV are much bigger than the typical start size of those used in a BDSM scene.

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 1:26:32 PM

velvetears

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quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

First let me say this: you have the power to say "no". You can tell them not to dig and you can tell them 100% that they will not use X spot but Y is ok. If they argue tell them too bad. You know your patient rights and that's one of em.

i will definately be exercising this right in the future. i can't for the life of me understand why they insist on the arm i say they won't be able to get blood from - almost like it's a challenge? i once had a nurse try to puncture me with the needle and the needle actually bent - she blamed me saying i had thick skin lol. i am glad you also mentioned the importance of sterility in using needles. i had a friend once get pricked by a thorn once in her lower leg, got an infection through blood poisoning and she spent months in the hospital trying to save her leg from amputation. i like my limbs and wanna keep them!

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 1:36:44 PM

Elorin

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From: San Antonio, TX
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http://www.collarchat.com/m_1145863/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#1146139

Needle play is very different from medical needles in my experience, but my knowledge has made it much more interesting to have my blood drawn. I'm always curious about the gauge of needle with a blood draw, the style of needle, what is used with a syringe for an injection, etc. My informed questions have led to being asked if I'm a phlebotomist, and honest answers have led to having this discussion with lab techs about the differences between erotic needle play and medical needles.

With erotic needle play the pain is intentional, and the feel of the needle as it comes ~out~ of the skin is very different than the one as it goes in. The endorphin rush is also much higher from that feeling of the needle coming out of the skin. The deliberateness (as oppposed to the unintelligent digging for a vein) is a notable difference.

And I've never had a lab tech intentionally use needles and blood to turn my body into a living canvas, but M does it all the time with needles. Being a living work of art is an especial pleasure of mine.

~E

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 3:16:02 PM

PairOfDimes

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It depends on the kind of medical needle experience. It's a good deal like acupuncture in technique, for the most part, although most kinky people use larger needles. In my experience it's rare to see needles inserted into muscle or veins for BDSM play. Typically, one slides the needle in horizontally, into the skin and perhaps a bit of subcutaneous fat. The point comes out the other side after a shallow penetration--you see the point out the other side of the "dimple" created by the shaft of the needle under the skin.

(Note: Yes, people do stick needles in a la intramuscular injections, both for injection play and for fun in its own right. And people do draw blood from veins as part of play. But that's extremely rare, in my experience.)

(in reply to velvetears)

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/15/2007 9:52:54 PM

chellekitty

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Joined: 3/27/2005
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while not typical needle play, i had my wrists surface pierced last month and with 2 piercings got one hell of an endorphin rush...and like mentioned, its a sewing motion...i felt no pain from the piercing...i didn't have to do any special breathing...everyone turns away (if they're not fascinated) going OMG didn't that hurt...nope...most annoying part was the smell from the alcohol pad used to wipe the ink off...

chelle...

PS. i routinely pass out from having my blood drawn...usually before they even get the needle in...something about the whole process of tying my arm up and poking around for 30 minutes...before they finally go get their supervisor...is nerve racking....and then theres the ones that fish...i give them 2 chances....if you can't get it the second time, go get someone who's better...one time i was in the hospital and they had to bring someone down from ICU to get me...and then there was one time a fairly new triage nurse felt for 30 seconds popped an IV in and i didn't even bruise...i wanted to give him like a $20 tip or something...lol

(in reply to PairOfDimes)

Post #: 15

RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/18/2007 11:08:40 AM

NickInSLC

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Joined: 8/9/2005
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dhdh

< Message edited by NickInSLC -- 7/18/2007 11:10:07 AM >

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/18/2007 11:12:17 AM

Shylahgirl

Posts: 167
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i have very deep veins/arteries. Or so i have been told by health care professionals. Whenever i go for blood work, or have to have an IV put in me it's a major ordeal. i generaly know of one spot thats fairly easy on my right arm but these know it all nurses insist on trying my left (more convenient for that side) - personally i think they are closet sadists but thats another topic altogether lol. These sadists in white uniforms literally puncture my arm (underside of elbow) and withdraw and push and withdrawn slightly again and push trying to find the vessel. Needles don't bother me much and while it's uncomfortable and i might wince a bit i generally let them stab at it till they finally stop, exasperated and then concede to try my right arm, where they get it in a try or two.

Now my question as to needle play as pertains to bdsm. i have never tried it - i list it as a limit mostly just because i have no interest and would not want to attract those interested in needle play. i would probably be open to it in an established relationship if it was really his thing. For those with experience in it - can it be compared at all to actual medical needle experience (obviously arousal and scene setting is not there when going to the doctor). As i sat there recently with nurse stabbem i was thinking about needle play saying to myself - this isn't fun lol. i know it would be in a different context but would the actual physical sensation be all that different? Does needle play not penetrate as deeply, like they do when trying to find a blood vessel? If so then freaking piece of cake! lol

Is it the power of the dom having the authority to do this that makes it hot? Is it the sensation of the needle piercing the skin? Is it seeing the work when it's done? i would like to understand this kink for those who have the inclination to share.. thanks

I am very into needles, from both the top and the bottom.

I have had needles "run" on me several times and I have had at least 2 vain sticks from Master.

The sensation really depends what you're going for. If you're doing a blood draw scene, then yes it should feel the same. If you are "running" needles horizontally through the skin it feels very different. When running needles the needle is usually put through the top layer of dermas, where all the nerve endings are.

You'll feel it a lot more when the needles are run horizontally and you will achieve a longer lasting, more intense endorphin high.
Shylah

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RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/18/2007 11:36:04 AM

onestandingstill

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I donated blood to the Red Cross for about 15 years & had my blood drawn by Doctors more than I care to remember in my life.

As I lay on the table in a dungeon extremeatorium event awaiting the prick of my first scene needles I was ready for the same sort of pricking stick I feel when they took my blood.

The Domme put two 19 guage needles just under the white skin on my left boob.
Well HELLO ENDORPHINS. The endorphin rush hit so quick and so completely I felt like I was drunk in like 10seconds of the 1st needle going in.
The needle itself didn't hurt half as much as drawing blood did.
I was hooked and ready to do WAY more needle play afterthat.

I've done needles the Dom bent into a v before he inserted them where he layered them in a star pattern and turned them to make the bent metal pull inside the skin. That hurt about even with having blood drawn or a shot.
The time I had needles inserted all along the edge of my butt crack hurt so bad I was screaming my head off (and I'm not a hollerer) so I'd say that time was way worse.
The most painful thing I've done in a scene context was having someone staple my belly button closed.
While it wasn't needles it was metal penetrating my skin.
The next step for me is needles straight in my nipples, not in one side and out the other, big needles like crochett hooks through my pussy lips and saline injections.
I hear all of these options are very very much more painful than blood work or shots, but till I do them I can't say for sure.

I'd recommend having someone just do two needles in the white flesh right above your aroela.
It was pretty pain free & lol can make you a needle endorphin junkie like me in no time.
I'd advise only doing needle play with a DOm or Domme who's trained in sterile environment practices & in the nerve locations in the human body.
Randomly stuck needle play can leave you with nerve damage & we all know infections can come from non-sterile conditions.
suzanne

(in reply to Shylahgirl)

Post #: 18

RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/18/2007 6:53:34 PM

velvetears

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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FR

Hmmmm.... now my interest is piqued - endorphin rush sounds wonderful. i have heard others say they never thought it would happen only to be pleasantly surprised when it did. But you're right i don't want nerve damage - had that once from an accident and it took years to recover, and i certainly don't want an infection. Thanks everyone for the responses - i am getting a much better picture and idea of what to expect if indeed i do ever try this kind of play.

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Post #: 19

RE: Needle Play - Any Coorelation? - 7/18/2007 6:58:44 PM

LadyHeart

Posts: 561
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Many subbies shudder at the thought of needle play. They will happily take a flogging, but cringe at the thought of having a needle stuck into them. Fact: needle play looks dramatic, but it hurts MUCH less than a good spanking!

The reason most of us dislike the thought of needle play is twofold:

1. It is associated with the childhood terror of having an injection non consensually inflicted
2. Many of those childhood injections really did hurt – but it wasn’t the needle that stung, it was what was in it.

If you have a Dominant who wants to try needle play, some good suggestions are:

1. Politely ask if small gauge needles can be used first (27’s or 25’s)
2. Ask permission to start on the back first, since what you don’t see won’t terrify you so much, and the skin is less tender there.
3. A blindfold might also help if your fear is psychological.

I have worked with a subbie who had needles on her hard limit list. She was totally traumatised by them. But she watched a few needle play scenes, became intrigued, and gingerly stuck one in herself. She was hooked and turned into a human pincushion, one of the most dramatic turn arounds I've ever witnessed.

:))
LH

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Post #: 20

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